Contador Isolates Self

[goober]

a business in which he already knows his teammates would stab him in the back if they had the chance, the ds would give his right eye to have one of his teammates beat him and he needs a new team for next year. if caisse doesn't work out, why not fflatter saxo a little.

this is a business. contador has 10 more years left to make his money. waiting for teammates in a team that don't let your best buddy start, wants somebody else to win en publicly burns you down would be stupid. business wise.
sapniards love this and will pay for him anyway. saxo might too after this stage.

You honestly believe Astana teammates would stab Contador in the back. Delusional. What is your basis for that statement from your living room chair? Any clear examples might help me understand.

 

[TRDean]

Yes, you are right. That's possible. I still think it would have been a better tactic to sit on the brothers wheels. He expended a lot of energy for little gain. He's got a lot to learn.

I don't agree with the lots of energy for little gain...the attack was over
before it started. He wasted no energy in the grand scheme.

 

[fulcrum]

The best thing Contador could have achieved was maybe 20-30 secs which he would surely have lost on the descent....bloody stupid I say again.

I'm not saying it was the right move, but the "best thing" could have been dropping the Schlecks and winning the stage by himself. He is the team leader, and as such, he has a certain freedom of movement that others in the team don't have. The bringing the domestiques into the podium BS is something that JB has come up with. I don't remember that being much of a focus during Lance's 7 wins.

 

[hampstenrider]

Why is everyone sh**ting themselves over this? It was obvious that Klodi and AC discussed going on the attack to try to get Klodi into second and pave the way for an all-Astana podium. When push came to shove though and AC made the move, Kloden was cooked and couldn't go. AC sat up after about 20 seconds and then had to match the Schleck's and hope that Kloden could claw his way back up to them. That's why he kept looking back the entire way up the climb after that. What's so hard to understand about that? Kloden blew up during a planned move. AC's not going to let the Schlecks push on and throw his lead away because of it.

 

[klodifan]

I really doubt he knew AC would attack he was actually looking away when he went, and I really doubt the Schleck would have upped the tempo if AC wouldn't attack. Klodi was barely staying on but he would have managed to finish with AC and not lose his good placing. And to be fair Klodi did a great job of helping AC last year in the Giro before droping out sick. Maybe he's the leader but if you can help your teamate without hurting your chances why not ? just a though

+1 well said.

 

[schnebit]

Because it is unsporting to sprint after sitting in and not contributing to the work, that is why he didn't go for the sprint.

ruamruam

Right... I understand.

But clearly, he attacked the Shlecks to go for the win (while also not doing any of the work on the climbs). So, he was going for the win, then he wasn't?

That's the part I don't get.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Here's the thing. Other than some smack talk to the media by LA, there is absolutely nothing his team did in the race that stabbed AC in the back. Stage 3 is debatable, but, even that wasn't an overt attack like AC did to Klodi and Lance.

then turn it around, what did contador do?
he was the strongest, so attacked. just like bruyneel had lance do in al his tour wins. he never waited so azevedo or someone could move from 5 to 4 or whatever.

btw, not taking noval was obvious.

 

[TRDean]

I'm not saying it was the right move, but the "best thing" could have been dropping the Schlecks and winning the stage by himself. He is the team leader, and as such, he has a certain freedom of movement that others in the team don't have. The bringing the domestiques into the podium BS is something that JB has come up with. I don't remember that being much of a focus during Lance's 7 wins.

Finally...good points. Also, maybe goober et al. would like LA, AC, AK to ride into Paris arm in arm singing Kum-by-ya?

 

[schnebit]

I'm not saying it was the right move, but the "best thing" could have been dropping the Schlecks and winning the stage by himself. He is the team leader, and as such, he has a certain freedom of movement that others in the team don't have. The bringing the domestiques into the podium BS is something that JB has come up with. I don't remember that being much of a focus during Lance's 7 wins.

I think it was '02 (don't remember the stage), that Lance was waiting for Roberto Herras in hopes to give him the win. When Roberto couldn't bridge w/o bringing Beloki with him, Lance cound't risk it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

What a bunch of duckheads.
Contador shouldn't attack his main threats, but ride as a domestique's domestique?
Yeah right.

Funny how it's all Contador's fault, once again.
Leecheimer and Armstrong are a marriage made in hell.

How much time did Kloden lose, towing Lance's dead ass up to Verbier?
How much time did he lose again, on stage 3, when Lance put Popo and Zubeldia, on the front, to drive with the Columbia train?

Some people's memories are not just selective, but short.

Fact: Kloden dropped 2 minutes 20 seconds in just 3 kms of climbing 12 kms of decent.

Oh and the Last 5 seconds was again down to Lance leaving him behind at the finish.

Get some perspective.

 

[ak-zaaf]

What is your basis for that statement from your living room chair?

you're commenting from your bike while doing a pro-tour race right now?
if not: welcome to the living room chair club.

 

[fulcrum]

Yesterday he told the NYT that he didn't need any help from his teammates and that he was fine by himself.

The NYT improperly translated his words. Check the thread for yesterday's stage to read what he really said.

 

[Anonymous]

Mind you, a certain Texan was also known as a bit of a rebel and would attack too soon and exert energy needlessly. He was World Champ but that didn't make him a great rider. It was others around him and a certain DS that taught him to ride smarter.

Contador still needs to learn the finer points of winning a long Tour and to be able to do it consistently. (Although possibly 4 Grand Tour's under his belt is not a bad start anyway!) It will be those hard days where he isn't in form that he will learn that teammates and good tactics will keep him in the yellow or limit his losses.

Right now he has the extraordinary talent to motor along better than anyone else. But why exert all that energy to just flex your muscle to the other riders? The Tour isn't over yet. Lest we remind him of Paris-Nice...

Makes you wonder how he'll do on another team that isn't as strong around him?

 

[TRDean]

Mind you, a certain Texan was also known as a bit of a rebel and would attack too soon and exert energy needlessly. He was World Champ but that didn't make him a great rider. It was others around him and a certain DS that taught him to ride smarter.

Contador still needs to learn the finer points of winning a long Tour and to be able to do it consistently. (Although possibly 4 Grand Tour's under his belt is not a bad start anyway!) It will be those hard days where he isn't in form that he will learn that teammates and good tactics will keep him in the yellow or limit his losses.

Right now he has the extraordinary talent to motor along better than anyone else. But why exert all that energy to just flex your muscle to the other riders? The Tour isn't over yet. Lest we remind him of Paris-Nice...

Makes you wonder how he'll do on another team that isn't as strong around him?

My guess is he will do fine!

 

[ruamruam]

Right... I understand.

But clearly, he attacked the Shlecks to go for the win (while also not doing any of the work on the climbs). So, he was going for the win, then he wasn't?

That's the part I don't get.

Sitting in on a climb is different altogether as you do not benefit as much from the draft so in cycling etiquette it is permissible to sit in on a climb.

Once they were on the downhill and flat it would be bad form to sprint if he had not contributed to the work.

ruamruam

 

[fulcrum]

The only people he seriously put time into was Wiggens, Kloden, and LA. One of those guys got Contador there, and the other put Wiggens further back on his own.

Final analysis........ Contador successfully attacked his teammates AGAIN.

He might be smarter than we think. That is probably where the biggest threat to his yellow jersey comes from.

 

[schnebit]

Here's the thing...

It wasn't so much about giving Kloden the win... it was about helping him keep his 3rd place.

 

[Carl0880]

Getting Kloden and Armstrong on the podium is up to Bruyneel, not Contador. I don't think the attack was malicious, tactical mistake?? POssibly, but people are making it sound like he did it out of spite. I really heaveily doubt it.

I think Bruyneel is trying hard to juggle 2 leaders objectives, and then also trying to work in getting Kloden on the podium also to say thank you for all his hard work. Bruyneel and Lance are both students of the history of the TDF. Bruyneel would love to be able to say that in the modern age of cycling he was able to have an all Astana podium with him as DS. Johan's ego is pretty big.

If Lance can make the podium, he will tie with Raymond Poulidor for most TDF podiums with 8, and i guarantee you that Lance is thinking about this now that he knows he can't win the overall title.

 

[klodifan]

According to LA's twitters Alberto clearly didn't follow team orders. So the previous theories of conversation between AC and AK are mute. JB didnt want him to attack, yet he did anyway.

 

[schnebit]

Getting Kloden and Armstrong on the podium is up to Bruyneel, not Contador. I don't think the attack was malicious, tactical mistake?? POssibly, but people are making it sound like he did it out of spite. I really heaveily doubt it.

Tactical mistake, IMHO, not spite...

 

[schnebit]

According to LA's twitters Alberto clearly didn't follow team orders. So the previous theories of conversation between AC and AK are mute. JB didnt want him to attack, yet he did anyway.

And that's not the first time he did that... If LA's twitters are to be believed. Lance is VERY good at playing the PR game and screwing with people's heads. VERY good.

 

[Psalmon]

Lance on Twitter

Lance Tweeted:

Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well.

This is going to sound simplistic but applies here:
You didn't see what you don't see.

Contador flats or crashes on the descent:
- Kloden close: saves the day
- Kloden dropped: loses the yellow jersey.

Also the race isn't over:
- Effort's impact tomorrow? Ventoux?
- Impact on morale?

The Schecks were the ones who should have attacked to isolate Kloden if he were in difficulty, but didn't. If AK told AC he's peddling squares, AC should have been on the quiet defensive.

Looking back on it, I'm not so sure Johan told AC to cool it and called off his attack. Remember when the Schlecks reeled AC back, AC was looking back for AK? Johan on the radio: "Basta! Basta! Basta! AHHHHH Mi Corazon!!!"

In any case, I don't think Kloden is ever going to buy a house in LGB. Too many bad memories on that road.

 

[TRDean]

According to LA's twitters Alberto clearly didn't follow team orders. So the previous theories of conversation between AC and AK are mute. JB didnt want him to attack, yet he did anyway.

And LA twitters are what undermine the team. LA is a *** period. He was not even there. Why did he chase so hard on the descent? To catch Kloden...thats why!! LA needs to just shut up!! Talk about a bad teammate.

 

[goober]

you're commenting from your bike while doing a pro-tour race right now?
if not: welcome to the living room chair club.

Yes. Actually the office chair club. My point was you have to be objective from where we are sitting and cannot make accusations without having examples to support the accusations even if those examples are media tainted. I thought the comment was pure speculation with obvious negative bias. Was looking for how the arm chair observer came to that conclusion; but, I suspect it was just another sour grape unsubstantiated comment.

 

[schnebit]

And LA twitters are what undermine the team. LA is a *** period. He was not even there. Why did he chase so hard on the descent? To catch Kloden...thats why!! LA needs to just shut up!! Talk about a bad teammate.

Yeah, I hear ya.... seems AC is an equal ***, too.

I think he chased to keep himself within a shot of the podium. He didn't want to risk bringing Wiggins back, so once he realized Wiggo was dropped he went.