Contador Isolates Self

[Kennf1]

It was a stupid move. Period. He's got a lot to learn

Funny tweet from Armstrong:

"Getting lots of questions why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured that one out either. Oh well ..."

 

[TRDean]

True enough... but remember, is job for the team is to win the Tour. Who do you have a better shot with?

Due to LA breaking his collarbone and his performance in the Giro...I would have backed Alberto. Younger and stronger. But hey, that is just my opinion. Johan seems to like LA and is now moving to LAs new team...I guess he knew where his bread was buttered.

 

[Publicus]

Dunno...

I suppose you could take the position that, you always put time into your rivals when you can. But you have to weigh the risks... There's always a risk... things could have gone really, really bad for Alberto as a result of his move.

He weighed it (the Schlecks didn't LOOK great), saw that it was having unintended consequences (Kloden) and not producing much of a gap and shut it down.

I don't think anything would have happened that didn't. He was CLEARLY stronger than the Schlecks having taken EVERYTHING they had to offer and still bouncing on his pedals.

He knows his redline better than anyone and the fact that he went for it, tells me he was feeling fine.

 

[jaylew]

What a bunch of duckheads.
Contador shouldn't attack his main threats, but ride as a domestique's domestique?
Yeah right.

Funny how it's all Contador's fault, once again.
Leecheimer and Armstrong are a marriage made in hell.

How much time did Kloden lose, towing Lance's dead ass up to Verbier?
How much time did he lose again, on stage 3, when Lance put Popo and Zubeldia, on the front, to drive with the Columbia train?

Some people's memories are not just selective, but short.

Fact: Kloden dropped 2 minutes 20 seconds in just 3 kms of climbing 12 kms of decent.

Oh and the Last 5 seconds was again down to Lance leaving him behind at the finish.

Get some perspective.

Good post.

You guys crack me up. When you have the yellow in hand you don't ride to protect any other place, no matter how high up it is. Astana had already said they would sacrifice anything, including LA's 2nd place, to ensure Contador in yellow.

Kloden said he could attack, Bruyneel said he could attack, so he gave it a go. Isn't that what you want to see from the yellow jersey? You never know what's going to happen on Ventoux. An extra 30-60 secs could have been useful. If he had managed to stay away, which everyone expected only the most ardent Kloden supporters would have decried his move.

It didn't work. It turned out to be a bad move tactically. That's cycling - it happens. Contador was sorry it turned out the way it did. Doesn't make him a dick, it just turned out to be a bad move. Frankly, Kloden would probably have been dropped shortly anyway. They slowed considerably and he still continued to lose time. You don't lose the kind of time he did in such a short time unless you are about to blow.

Talk about overreaction!

 

[Aguirre]

I'm assuming you weren't referring to me... I hadn't said anything about Contador being a bad teammate. And it's pretty obvious who the strongest rider is (he's wearing yellow).

But for a 38yo, LA is doing quite well. So to have the possibility of getting on the podium why not try? He's not digging into AC's time. Or would you rather he stay on Wiggo's wheel, who already cracked, for no reason? He may not get to wear yellow but as a competitor he's not going to sit down either.

yeah, I kind of agree, he is incredible doing well for a 38 years old. He is amazing, but he is doing his own ride, would love to see him helping AC, but a pity, cause AC won't need his help cause he and entire team is too strong.
there will be always a what if?

 

[dienekes88]

And LA twitters are what undermine the team. LA is a *** period. He was not even there. Why did he chase so hard on the descent? To catch Kloden...thats why!! LA needs to just shut up!! Talk about a bad teammate.

Errr... I don't think that's the case. He was most likely trying to put time into Wiggo, who by most peoples' calculations is a better time triallist than LA at this Tour de France.

Dropping Twiggo has two results:
1) get time on a good time triallist
2) strike a psychological blow on a podium contender

OR... you could just assume the worst. I have no doubt you'll continue to analyze everything using the premise: "LA is a *** period."

 

[klodifan]

This is a good point...however tough it is, it is not that difficult. You pick a leader before the tour. If Johan is that good a team manager/leader he should have made no bones about the direction of the team. Remember, all we keep hearing is what a genous DS he really is. Much of this is his own fault.

JB is arguably a great master tactician. But he is a horrible manager. He is the antithesis of Joe Torre. A master at managing multiple egos, but not so great when calling plays on the field. Astana needed a Joe Torre.

 

[Publicus]

True enough... but remember, is job for the team is to win the Tour. Who do you have a better shot with?

Alberto Contador. Same is true next year too. Which makes his decision to cast his lot with Lance all the more strange. The upside on a 26 year old phenom is MUCH greater than a 38 year old ex-champion.

 

[mikkemus23]

LA at twitter: Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well.

and

@W_Pahlkletzer No but I always followed team orders. Always.

Nice to take this public.

So much for his "happy to be ACs domestique"

 

[fulcrum]

That's a good point... JB was in a tough spot, though.

Picture this - you have the 2007 winner on your team. Not to mention, said winner also won the last 3 grand tours that he rode.

Then, here comes the 7-time winner of the Tour back onto your team. What would YOU do?

It's easy to sit here and sling mud, but unless you're in the situation it's hard to judge.

Not really,

You tell the 37 year old 7-time Tour the France winner that he has been off for 3.5 years and that his return could upset the balance of the team. So you tell him to join in to help, you tell him to get his own team or you tell him to wait another year until a new team is built around him. 3 pretty clear options. But of course, JB knows Lance is money, so he throws his better judgement to the wind because of greed.

 

[Aguirre]

He is not a bad teammate. He is the team leader. That means his interest prevails over any other rider's in the team. Remember? JB promised him so much until he decided to go back on his word at the beginning of the Tour.

yes agree, he is the leader and it's better to secure the TdF win rather than start securing second and third within the team,

He wanted to secure the tdf win with that attack, that's all!

Kloden and LAnce don't have to complain, AC is more leader today, or wans't not him the only leader???????????????????????

 

[TRDean]

Errr... I don't think that's the case. He was most likely trying to put time into Wiggo, who by most peoples' calculations is a better time triallist than LA at this Tour de France.

Dropping Twiggo has two results:
1) get time on a good time triallist
2) strike a psychological blow on a podium contender

OR... you could just assume the worst. I have no doubt you'll continue to analyze everything using the premise: "LA is a *** period."

You know me too well...I do think LA is a ***!!! He has been bad for this team since his return. A total circus. He is a bad teammate...he should say nothing in his tweets about the incident...especially if he knows nothing!! Crawl back under your rock..see you next july when you are rooting for LA and his new team.

 

[Azdak6]

From Velonews:

“On the climb, when I was speaking with Andreas. I said I am going to attack,” Contador said after the stage. “He said, ‘if you want, attack.’ I thought it was going to be a mano-a-mano with Andy Schleck and I. Then I saw that Andreas was struggling and I wasn’t distancing the Schlecks, this is the big regret I have from the day.

“It was a tactic we thought about before the stage, to attack to distance the Schlecks,” Contador added. “I spoke with (Bruyneel), he told me to attack if I wanted, I attacked and I saw that the brothers were strong, I saw that Andreas stayed back, I was constantly looking back to see if he was coming back but he suffered a bonk behind and he couldn’t regain the wheel – for that I am pretty sad about it.”

Contador seems to hear different things from anyone else on the team. Maybe he speaks a more obscure Spanish dialect where everything is opposite--like Bizarro Spanish.

Even if you take Contador's explanation at face value, it was still a dumb move.

That being said, I don't see the need to overblow it. I thought we saw a great race today: good team tactics by Astana, good teamwork for the most part, Contador's total mastery of this year's TdF, gutsy performances from Hushovd, Frank Schleck and even Christian Vandevelde, a nice attack from Armstrong (after his own mistake in reacting too slowly to the last move by Frank Schleck), and Contador and Andy Schleck doing the right thing at the end and giving Frank the victory.

It helped me get through the last 20 minutes on the treadmill as well. I had planned a 1:20:00 run and the timer hit the goal exactly when Frank Schleck crossed the line. I tried to get my wife to dress up as a podium girl, but without success.

 

[Carl0880]

That's a good point... JB was in a tough spot, though.

Picture this - you have the 2007 winner on your team. Not to mention, said winner also won the last 3 grand tours that he rode.

Then, here comes the 7-time winner of the Tour back onto your team. What would YOU do?

It's easy to sit here and sling mud, but unless you're in the situation it's hard to judge.

It is certainly a tough situation. The riders are paid to perform. The DS is paid to keep things well in hand to allow the riders to perform. DO I want the task, heck no, but JOhan knew when he accepted this job, he did not have to let Lance back on his team. COnsidering he was riding for free though, to a sponsor, Lance is the most valuable assest. He provides free advertisement all over the world for Astana, and the best part, they don't have to pay him. THen comes the fact that if he wants something, how to handle him.

 

[Publicus]

Contador is the strongest man in the race, he´s not worring the second or third place is his teammate or not, he wants to win the tour. What will be his next team ?

I could see Garmin, Cervelo make a real bid for his services. Maybe Caisse if things work out poorly for Valeverde (btw, whatever happened to his appeal?).

 

[Carl0880]

Contador seems to hear different things from anyone else on the team. Maybe he speaks a more obscure Spanish dialect where everything is opposite--like Bizarro Spanish.

Even if you take Contador's explanation at face value, it was still a dumb move.

That being said, I don't see the need to overblow it. I thought we saw a great race today: good team tactics by Astana, good teamwork for the most part, Contador's total mastery of this year's TdF, gutsy performances from Hushovd, Frank Schleck and even Christian Vandevelde, a nice attack from Armstrong (after his own mistake in reacting too slowly to the last move by Frank Schleck), and Contador and Andy Schleck doing the right thing at the end and giving Frank the victory.
.

I think it was more of a really good timed attack by Frank though. Lance was swinging across the road slowing down the pace since he had Wiggins on his wheels, and as soon as Lance started slowing and going left, Frank attacked from the back and up the right side. By the time Lance could have tried to chase it down, it was a significant enough gap where he couldn't afford to chance and possibly bring Wiggins with him. I put that on a brillant move by Frank.

I agree with Hushovd, Schleck and VDV. Also, big Congrats for Pelizotti on the Polka Dot jersey. Also, credit for Cadel hanging tough and finishing the stage instead of stepping off after what has certainly been a disappointing TDF for him.

 

[nslckevin]

This is why Contador shouldn't have attacked today.

GC before the stage:

Contador
Armstrong
A Schleck
Kloden

GC prize list:

1st 450,000 Euros
2nd 200,000 Euros
3rd 100,000 Euros
4th 70,000 Euros
5th 50,000 Euros
6th 23,000 Euros


Coming into today, if nothing changed, AC, LA and AK would earn 720,000 Euros.

Coming out of today, they are set to earn 570,000 Euros. That is 150,000 less than this morning. That is money out of the pocket not only of the riders, but of the team staff, mechanics, etc. All for no gain! Even if Contador picked up 20-30 seconds with his attack, the cost would probably have been too much. He should smoke the Schlecks in the TT tomorrow so that cushion wouldn't have been worth the cost anyway.

Granted, that it is quite possible that Kloden and Armstrong will be able to TT themselves back onto the podium and "get that 150,000 Euros back", but even if they do, they will not have much room for error on Ventoux. And yes, on Ventoux if need be Armstrong and Kloden will "throw it all away" to make sure Contador wins the Tour. But Astana is strong enough that they may not need to throw good money away.

When your team mates are well down on GC there is rightly no need to be concerned with dropping them, but when you've got two team mates who are podium material, you should be more careful. i.e. 8,000 Euros for a stage win is not a good trade for losing 150,000 Euros in GC money!!!

Also as others have mentioned, all Contador did was needlessly isolate himself. No real worry of the Schlecks taking time on him if nothing went wrong, but an untimely flat could have been very bad.

And for the record I don't think that he did anything that harmed Armstrong's chances. LA couldn't follow the initial attack that split the group and got stuck playing team mate. (As he of course should have.) Also note that when Armstrong first attacked the group and Wiggins followed, LA shut down and went back to sitting on. Again, as a good team mate should since Wiggins is likely to have a good time trial tomorrow.

Kevin

 

[TRDean]

This is why Contador shouldn't have attacked today.

GC before the stage:

Contador
Armstrong
A Schleck
Kloden

GC prize list:

1st 450,000 Euros
2nd 200,000 Euros
3rd 100,000 Euros
4th 70,000 Euros
5th 50,000 Euros
6th 23,000 Euros


Coming into today, if nothing changed, AC, LA and AK would earn 720,000 Euros.

Coming out of today, they are set to earn 570,000 Euros. That is 150,000 less than this morning. That is money out of the pocket not only of the riders, but of the team staff, mechanics, etc. All for no gain! Even if Contador picked up 20-30 seconds with his attack, the cost would probably have been too much. He should smoke the Schlecks in the TT tomorrow so that cushion wouldn't have been worth the cost anyway.

Granted, that it is quite possible that Kloden and Armstrong will be able to TT themselves back onto the podium and "get that 150,000 Euros back", but even if they do, they will not have much room for error on Ventoux. And yes, on Ventoux if need be Armstrong and Kloden will "throw it all away" to make sure Contador wins the Tour. But Astana is strong enough that they may not need to throw good money away.

When your team mates are well down on GC there is rightly no need to be concerned with dropping them, but when you've got two team mates who are podium material, you should be more careful. i.e. 8,000 Euros for a stage win is not a good trade for losing 150,000 Euros in GC money!!!

Also as others have mentioned, all Contador did was needlessly isolate himself. No real worry of the Schlecks taking time on him if nothing went wrong, but an untimely flat could have been very bad.

And for the record I don't think that he did anything that harmed Armstrong's chances. LA couldn't follow the initial attack that split the group and got stuck playing team mate. (As he of course should have.) Also note that when Armstrong first attacked the group and Wiggins followed, LA shut down and went back to sitting on. Again, as a good team mate should since Wiggins is likely to have a good time trial tomorrow.

Kevin

Kloden would have lost time anyway...apparently he bonked..so the attack didn't really do anything other than blow an already cooked Klodi. I wonder why LA hasn't twitted yet that Klodi bonked and still has a lot to learn? Funny eh?

 

[fulcrum]

a nice attack from Armstrong (after his own mistake in reacting too slowly to the last move by Frank Schleck),

That was a pretty big mistake on Armstrong's part. It might have cost him as much as 2 minutes in the GC.

Lance has a lot to learn when it comes to non-tempo uphill racing. The constant accelerations from the Schlecks and Contador are getting to him. This is something he hasn't seen very much in the past... the US Postal used to set a pace and everybody would fall in line. Today, after one of the accelerations, he went to the front of the group and slowed down A LOT, losing his momentum. Then, instead of looking back to see what was cooking, he continued to look ahead. When Frank attacked, he was caught with his pants down, behind Wiggings, wanting but not able to close the gap because of team strategy...

 

[indurain666]

Lance is a ***, period.

AC attack was the wrong choice, but heck, who is really helping this guy anyway? Who is advising him? JB was driving behind LA, Kloden was next to useless, and never pulled. IMO AC should have gone hard at the bottom of the Colobmbiere

When your whole team is against you, I can't blame the guy.

Lance said" My Tour is over" in English. Translation in fanboy nation language: "I was here to win this freaking thing, not to help the team". He promised to ride as a teammate, but so far I haven't seen anything of that. In fact, he is always behind AC.

AC needs another team, and a good race director to teach him more. Lets not forget he was won 4 grand tours and he is only 26. He still going through a learning curve.

 

[euphrades]

First, it wasn't the brightest move at all, but he is the TEAM LEADER and this is his Tour to lose at this point. He should not care where Lance is or Kloden is as his main goal is to win the Tour.

Second, it was not a wise use of energy as there was little to gain and we all know that Contador doesn't descend as well.

Third, he is young. He riders on instinct and that instinct has been pretty good so far. In the end some things could have gone wrong and they would have been his fault no one elses.

As for Lance bombing the descent so what.....he didn't bring anyone across and it didn't jeopordize the yellow jersey.

 

[RightWingNutJob]

LMAO, somehow all the LA haters turning a dumb move by Contador into more LA hating.

 

[klodifan]

Simply brilliant!

This is why Contador shouldn't have attacked today.

GC before the stage:

Contador
Armstrong
A Schleck
Kloden

GC prize list:

1st 450,000 Euros
2nd 200,000 Euros
3rd 100,000 Euros
4th 70,000 Euros
5th 50,000 Euros
6th 23,000 Euros


Coming into today, if nothing changed, AC, LA and AK would earn 720,000 Euros.

Coming out of today, they are set to earn 570,000 Euros. That is 150,000 less than this morning. That is money out of the pocket not only of the riders, but of the team staff, mechanics, etc. All for no gain! Even if Contador picked up 20-30 seconds with his attack, the cost would probably have been too much. He should smoke the Schlecks in the TT tomorrow so that cushion wouldn't have been worth the cost anyway.

Granted, that it is quite possible that Kloden and Armstrong will be able to TT themselves back onto the podium and "get that 150,000 Euros back", but even if they do, they will not have much room for error on Ventoux. And yes, on Ventoux if need be Armstrong and Kloden will "throw it all away" to make sure Contador wins the Tour. But Astana is strong enough that they may not need to throw good money away.

When your team mates are well down on GC there is rightly no need to be concerned with dropping them, but when you've got two team mates who are podium material, you should be more careful. i.e. 8,000 Euros for a stage win is not a good trade for losing 150,000 Euros in GC money!!!

Also as others have mentioned, all Contador did was needlessly isolate himself. No real worry of the Schlecks taking time on him if nothing went wrong, but an untimely flat could have been very bad.

And for the record I don't think that he did anything that harmed Armstrong's chances. LA couldn't follow the initial attack that split the group and got stuck playing team mate. (As he of course should have.) Also note that when Armstrong first attacked the group and Wiggins followed, LA shut down and went back to sitting on. Again, as a good team mate should since Wiggins is likely to have a good time trial tomorrow.

Kevin

 

[fulcrum]

This is why Contador shouldn't have attacked today.

GC before the stage:

Contador
Armstrong
A Schleck
Kloden

GC prize list:

1st 450,000 Euros
2nd 200,000 Euros
3rd 100,000 Euros
4th 70,000 Euros
5th 50,000 Euros
6th 23,000 Euros


Coming into today, if nothing changed, AC, LA and AK would earn 720,000 Euros.

Coming out of today, they are set to earn 570,000 Euros. That is 150,000 less than this morning. That is money out of the pocket not only of the riders, but of the team staff, mechanics, etc. All for no gain! Even if Contador picked up 20-30 seconds with his attack, the cost would probably have been too much. He should smoke the Schlecks in the TT tomorrow so that cushion wouldn't have been worth the cost anyway.

Granted, that it is quite possible that Kloden and Armstrong will be able to TT themselves back onto the podium and "get that 150,000 Euros back", but even if they do, they will not have much room for error on Ventoux. And yes, on Ventoux if need be Armstrong and Kloden will "throw it all away" to make sure Contador wins the Tour. But Astana is strong enough that they may not need to throw good money away.

When your team mates are well down on GC there is rightly no need to be concerned with dropping them, but when you've got two team mates who are podium material, you should be more careful. i.e. 8,000 Euros for a stage win is not a good trade for losing 150,000 Euros in GC money!!!

Also as others have mentioned, all Contador did was needlessly isolate himself. No real worry of the Schlecks taking time on him if nothing went wrong, but an untimely flat could have been very bad.

And for the record I don't think that he did anything that harmed Armstrong's chances. LA couldn't follow the initial attack that split the group and got stuck playing team mate. (As he of course should have.) Also note that when Armstrong first attacked the group and Wiggins followed, LA shut down and went back to sitting on. Again, as a good team mate should since Wiggins is likely to have a good time trial tomorrow.

Kevin

Wow, an accountant trying to understand race strategy. Now this is new and very amusing. In a silly way that is...

 

[Publicus]

LMAO, somehow all the LA haters turning a dumb move by Contador into more LA hating.

Funny how that happened. Though to be honest, Lance's little twitter comments are just adding fuel to the fire.

It is what it is. I'm looking forward to 2010 when there will be no more excuses when Lance gets his saddle handed to him in the Tour de France. Who is he going to hire to hold Contador's wheel? It ain't him.