Contador Isolates Self

[Publicus]

Kloden would have lost time anyway...apparently he bonked..so the attack didn't really do anything other than blow an already cooked Klodi. I wonder why LA hasn't twitted yet that Klodi bonked and still has a lot to learn? Funny eh?

Isn't the tradition to split the 1st prize money with the team since the leader will pick up more in post-Tour crits and endorsements? And since when was it about money for Lance? I thought this was about raising cancer awareness.

 

[Azdak6]

I think it was more of a really good timed attack by Frank though. Lance was swinging across the road slowing down the pace since he had Wiggins on his wheels, and as soon as Lance started slowing and going left, Frank attacked from the back and up the right side. By the time Lance could have tried to chase it down, it was a significant enough gap where he couldn't afford to chance and possibly bring Wiggins with him. I put that on a brillant move by Frank.

I absolutely agree---I didn't mean to ignore Frank's excellent tactics. And, given the strength of his move, I am not sure Armstrong could have followed--although he does seem to have a decent 1 K "burst" in him at this point in the Tour.

It just seemed like Armstrong's job was to mark Frank S, and it was pretty obvious that for a split second Armstrong was distracted and didn't respond. As you say, it was such a perfect move, Armstrong may not have been able to jump on anyhow.

 

[RightWingNutJob]

Funny how that happened. Though to be honest, Lance's little twitter comments are just adding fuel to the fire.

It is what it is. I'm looking forward to 2010 when there will be no more excuses when Lance gets his saddle handed to him in the Tour de France. Who is he going to hire to hold Contador's wheel? It ain't him.

I'm just not sure what team Contador could go to that would give him an easier victory at the tour. I think next year it is going to be much more difficult for him to win. A Schleck is going to be that much stronger.

 

[idreamofgenie]

I think that Kloden and Armstrong are one team, Contador another. Otherwise why did Kloden jump across to AC and the Schlecks, then sit on? He didnt even pull once. He was sent up there for Lance not for AC.

 

[Azdak6]

That was a pretty big mistake on Armstrong's part. It might have cost him as much as 2 minutes in the GC.

Lance has a lot to learn when it comes to non-tempo uphill racing. The constant accelerations from the Schlecks and Contador are getting to him. This is something he hasn't seen very much in the past... the US Postal used to set a pace and everybody would fall in line. Today, after one of the accelerations, he went to the front of the group and slowed down A LOT, losing his momentum. Then, instead of looking back to see what was cooking, he continued to look ahead. When Frank attacked, he was caught with his pants down, behind Wiggings, wanting but not able to close the gap because of team strategy...

Well, yes, I would say this is a new position for Armstrong to be in.

Plus, I think it has been obvious that, at 37, he cannot match strong accelerations by the top climbers.

And, given the outcome, yes, it may very well have cost Armstrong a podium spot.

Methinks, that if both LA and Contador have good TTs tomorrow vs Schlecks and Wiggins, Armstrong will have the freedom to do whatever he needs (or is able) to do on Ventoux to secure the podium.

 

[fulcrum]

Funny how that happened. Though to be honest, Lance's little twitter comments are just adding fuel to the fire.

It is what it is. I'm looking forward to 2010 when there will be no more excuses when Lance gets his saddle handed to him in the Tour de France. Who is he going to hire to hold Contador's wheel? It ain't him.

And I doubt he will be able to hire Contador to be his domestique. Although Lance being Lance, I wouldn't put it past him. Through 10 million per season at the guy, remove your stronger threat and coast to an 8th win, riding the Livestrong/Nike tempo uphill with no attacks, no challengers and no fun.

 

[OnTheButton]

If LA and JB ran the race all the time it would be the most boring TdF EVER. Hats off to AC for showing who is the strongest. Whatever happened to showing your stuff.

 

[Oldman]

Well, yes, I would say this is a new position for Armstrong to be in.

Plus, I think it has been obvious that, at 37, he cannot match strong accelerations by the top climbers.

And, given the outcome, yes, it may very well have cost Armstrong a podium spot.

Methinks, that if both LA and Contador have good TTs tomorrow vs Schlecks and Wiggins, Armstrong will have the freedom to do whatever he needs (or is able) to do on Ventoux to secure the podium.

PROBABLY. I watched Contador and his attach made little sense if only because that 2K uphill would be followed by alot of downhill work prior to tomorrow's Itt. At the same time LA and Kloden should have been thinking the same thing. LA could probably have gone with Frank but there was no team advantage with Kloden up the road. Everyone appeared to make the right decisions at the time. It's easy to judge from the Bark-o-lounger but Contador did shut down, LA moved at the right time to limit losses and Kloden hung on for his life. No conspiracy here folks.

 

[Publicus]

I'm just not sure what team Contador could go to that would give him an easier victory at the tour. I think next year it is going to be much more difficult for him to win. A Schleck is going to be that much stronger.

And so is Contador. I think Garmin would be an excellent team for him as would Cervelo. Everyone is pointing toward's Caisse or a new team, but I think there is too much uncertainty with the latter (would they even have a license) and Valverde is going to still want to be the man at Caisse (assuming he's not suspended).

 

[nslckevin]

Wow, an accountant trying to understand race strategy. Now this is new and very amusing. In a silly way that is...

I will put my racing experience and skill up against you and likely 99% of the people on this board.

The money matters. They are PROFESSIONAL cyclists and those support people don't make squat. If you don't think that the support people aren't already counting the money they expect to make from the tour you are delusional.

Traditionally the team splits all money and the winner of the tour does not take a split as they are about to make buckets of money elsewhere.

Ask Bob Roll if he still holds a grudge against Andy Hampsten for not splitting his Giro winnings? Hell, I still hold a grudge against a former team mate who kept all of the money he won at a stage race in 1988 when I was a poor college student and could really have used my $400 split.

I will finish with these questions:

1. What did Contador gain from his attack?
2. What did he lose from his attack?
3. What COULD he have gained from his attack and how would it have mattered?

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[TRDean]

PROBABLY. I watched Contador and his attach made little sense if only because that 2K uphill would be followed by alot of downhill work prior to tomorrow's Itt. At the same time LA and Kloden should have been thinking the same thing. LA could probably have gone with Frank but there was no team advantage with Kloden up the road. Everyone appeared to make the right decisions at the time. It's easy to judge from the Bark-o-lounger but Contador did shut down, LA moved at the right time to limit losses and Kloden hung on for his life. No conspiracy here folks.

Thats why you are the old man...with the knowledge!!

 

[lean mean &green]

AC's attack was dumb, he did isolate himself. He didn't help his teamates chances to reach the podium but....

I don't think the time gaps without the move would be much different.

It's not evidence that AC is the anti-christ, he just misread the race, he goofed.

LA isn't the antichrist either.

Also, the financials are important. ALL the GC money is pooled together and re-distributed to the team. I'm sure the riders who are not household names would appreciate their share of 150,000 Euro.

 

[Publicus]

And I doubt he will be able to hire Contador to be his domestique. Although Lance being Lance, I wouldn't put it past him. Through 10 million per season at the guy, remove your stronger threat and coast to an 8th win, riding the Livestrong/Nike tempo uphill with no attacks, no challengers and no fun.

Contador won't be on his team, so they will go tete a tete. I'm just wondering who he'll bring on as a domestique to try and hold Contador's wheel when he attacks, since LA can't ride with him.

 

[indurain666]

I'm just not sure what team Contador could go to that would give him an easier victory at the tour. I think next year it is going to be much more difficult for him to win. A Schleck is going to be that much stronger.

Check cyclingnews.com, Contador won Tour 07 with a weaker Team, same goes for Giro and Vuelta 08

 

[RightWingNutJob]

And so is Contador. I think Garmin would be an excellent team for him as would Cervelo. Everyone is pointing toward's Caisse or a new team, but I think there is too much uncertainty with the latter (would they even have a license) and Valverde is going to still want to be the man at Caisse (assuming he's not suspended).

Yes, but Schleck is already on one of the Best Tour teams, we don't know where Contador will fall and how good that team will be. The only one I can see being able to give him the same support as Astana would be Garmin.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Have all the fanboy's suddenly applied for German citizenship?

Shows how woolly minded some of the thinking is, here.

Lance fans should actually be thanking Contador.
If he and the Schlecks had towed the "Freiburg Phantom" to the line, it would be Lance fighting to remove Andy S from the podium, in order to clamber aboard.

He's climbing well, but would he really want to risk his climbing form against the bros, on the Ventoux, so he can stand under the Spaniard's Parisienne shadow?

 

[autologous]

That was a pretty big mistake on Armstrong's part. It might have cost him as much as 2 minutes in the GC.

you make it sound like he decided not to chase Schleck. That's bullsh*t.

It wasn't a tactical decision/mistake he made. He physically couldn't respond.

All the spinning afterward is just that. Ligget and Sherwin going on about how he was playing the loyal teammate, staying with Wiggins to mark him. What a load of garbage.

Dropping Wiggins and following Schleck would have been even more beneficial for the team. 3 Astana on 2 Saxo.

If Lance could have followed Frank, he would have. There was no mistake about it, just hard reality.

 

[LivingstronginAptos]

He would be completely lost without Bruyneel.......if he stays with the game plan then Astana is 1, 2 and 3 in the GC.

A very stupid move hurting Kloden much like his dopey move on Arcalis where if he had rode steadily Lance would have gotten yellow....been a great gesture.

The old pros on Astana are making him look good. If they were on different teams, Lance had the power yesterday to continue his attack rather than regroup...the Schlecks were spent.

 

[Publicus]

you make it sound like he decided not to chase Schleck. That's bullsh*t.

It wasn't a tactical decision/mistake he made. He physically couldn't respond.

All the spinning afterward is just that. Ligget and Sherwin going on about how he was playing the loyal teammate, staying with Wiggins to mark him. What a load of garbage.

Dropping Wiggins and following Schleck would have been even more beneficial for the team. 3 Astana on 2 Saxo.

If Lance could have followed Frank, he would have. There was no mistake about it, just hard reality.

Yep. He couldn't close the gap and I suspect he didn't want to completely blow himself up trying to do so. He rode a great race and he will be the talk of the 2010 Tour de France as if he was the returning champion. But the result will be the same: time has moved on from him. Andy Schleck, Contador, Nibali and the other young guns are the future.

 

[dienekes88]

You know me too well...I do think LA is a ***!!! He has been bad for this team since his return. A total circus. He is a bad teammate...he should say nothing in his tweets about the incident...especially if he knows nothing!! Crawl back under your rock..see you next july when you are rooting for LA and his new team.

Hahaha. Very clever little insult, but I actually follow cycling throughout the year.

I gave a totally reasonable explanation that Oldman agreed with... and you agreed with Oldman.

Interesting.

I'm not even a big LA fan. You're just splitting: because I don't hate LA, I must be all over his nuts... that doesn't make sense.

 

[nslckevin]

you make it sound like he decided not to chase Schleck. That's bullsh*t.

It wasn't a tactical decision/mistake he made. He physically couldn't respond.

All the spinning afterward is just that. Ligget and Sherwin going on about how he was playing the loyal teammate, staying with Wiggins to mark him. What a load of garbage.

Dropping Wiggins and following Schleck would have been even more beneficial for the team. 3 Astana on 2 Saxo.

If Lance could have followed Frank, he would have. There was no mistake about it, just hard reality.

You are correct in that Lance didn't follow the attack because he couldn't. But you are wrong in saying that he wasn't riding for the team afterwards. He DID attack Wiggins after a while and Wiggins was able to respond so LA shut it down and VdV and Nibaldi were able to bridge back up. It was only later that LA was able to get away without Wiggins.

You don't have to like all the riders (LA, AC, AK, whoever), but at least TRY to watch what is actually happening and don't view it through fanboy or hater eyes. Is that so much to ask?

Kevin

 

[UWSWalter]

Lance is a good team mate. You don't sit on Wiggo's wheel and cost yourself >1 minute just for fun. Particularly when it is very clear he has more than that. How much more is the question.

Contador is showing very little grace. He seems to care as much about his positioning in the team as the race. He surely could offer some thanks for the work the other (including Lance today) are doing.

Contador is super talented, but not super smart. His move today was a poor risk/reward. He'd be descending solo for about 15k. I'm not convinced that whatever time he put into the Schlecks would've stuck. In as much, it wasn't a great move.

Lance should keep some of the comments to himself. No need to make a team mate look bad even if you did the right thing on the road.

Bruneel clearly prefers Lance to Alberto, but cannot devise a scheme where Lance takes the jersey at this point. The script was written on Verbier.

What I'd certainly like to see is Lance take back 1:30 tomorrow while the Schlecks lose another 1:00 to Contador. That sets up for a mano a mano showdown up the slopes of Ventoux between Contador and Lance (with Lance already behind 2:30 at the start). Given a situation that looks something like...

Contador 000
Lance 2:00
A Schleck 3:30
F Schleck 4:30

Would Bruneel dare to allow the showdown happen? And would a fist fight break out at the summit?

Yeah that last part is a pipe dream so don't bother ripping me. I know.

 

[schnebit]

Alberto Contador. Same is true next year too. Which makes his decision to cast his lot with Lance all the more strange. The upside on a 26 year old phenom is MUCH greater than a 38 year old ex-champion.

I don't think that Alberto is a phenom... far from it. A phenom would have dropped the Shlecks like a bad habit on the Colombiere.

And... I think that Lance is proving that he's not an 'ex' chapmion.

I think that the 7-time winner deserves some respect.

 

[pistolero]

Too many people still waiting the lance miracle.alberto wanted this stage victory for andreas kloden and try to drop some of the schleck's bros,he was really upset when finally andreas crackdown,so he didnt help them at all,just staying in the wheel.did you see the same stage than me?

 

[dienekes88]

I don't think that Alberto is a phenom... far from it. A phenom would have dropped the Shlecks like a bad habit on the Colombiere.

And... I think that Lance is proving that he's not an 'ex' chapmion.

I think that the 7-time winner deserves some respect.

Whoa. You better watch what you say!

You may be pegged as a lance-fanboy who only follows cycling in July!