Contador Isolates Self

[jilbiker]

I do not think anyone is questioning his ability or experience to win. You are missing the point. The comment is 'he has a lot to learn'.

I disagree. LA in 99&2000 was like that. Yes he didn't have a good team, but he had one goal, period. Not sure i see the reason for all the lash of AC. He is a hungry young man and I am tired of this defensive cycling. Miguel Indurain would crush you if he could, he took no prisoners. I think AC is in the wrong team and with the wrong manager. He needs a attack minded manager. Bryneel and LA brought in this concept of defensive cycling, wait till you are attacked and then defend. Was good for the twiglight years of LA but they did not use such tactics in the early years.

Well done AC, I had predicted he would attack at 3/4 to go to bury the Schlecks, I think he held back because he say AK couldn't keep up with the brothers and so AK would lose his podium place. A thoughful young man, too. Not selfish.

 

[Aguirre]

Kloden did not take a single pull today. And only rode in front of Contador once at the beginning of the Colombiere. He was hanging on to Contador's wheel the entire time.

of course, I see, I was creating a possible scenario, not describing what happened...

 

[Chomsky]

That's not even close to what AC said in the interview. Read this post for the actual quote in Spanish and the translation: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=51973&postcount=316

What AC said is also quite different than what JB said.

As a time trial specialist we knew Wiggins was the real danger," said General Manager Johan Bruyneel. "At the moment the Schlecks went Contador and Klöden went so it was fine. We knew the Schlecks would go to the end because they wanted to get rid of Bradley Wiggins. The attack from Contador at 3km from the top, I had advised Alberto not to go because he didn’t need to go. He didn’t need to go because it was clear that the Schlecks would go full gas to the finish. I told him, ‘You don’t have to attack to win the Tour de France today’. It’s a bit of a pity that Andreas couldn’t hold on because we could have been first, second and third on GC but now we are first, fourth and fifth."

It is not the first time that what AC has said has differed from what his teammates and team manager has said. AC seems to gaining a long history of self serving excuses that seem to greatly stretch and distort the truth. He may be the best rider in the world but his character failures will likely one day catch up with him. AC would be better served to just admit hsi attack on Kloden was a tactical mistake and notlie or make things worse by lying or making excuses for his behavior. Mistakes are one thing and are easily forgettable but lying or distorting the truth is something that people will not forget for quite sometime. Whether AC is just young stupid, insecure, a bad person or whatever excuse he is slowly digging himself quite a reputation.

 

[Publicus]

not likely, one of two things will happen...

1. AC goes with JB b/c JB is no fool. AC is the best tour rider. LA and LL try to scoop up giro/veulta's wins. (seems very unlikely based upon obvious tensions)

2. Another wealthy team negotiates a buy out of AC's contract. JB probably doesn't win tour but makes a ton of money with American sponsors who get a ton of exposure based upon LA's rockstar status. Plus some extra cash from the buyout.

why would you just release AC when you can keep him or weaken a rival's finances giving you extra money you'll need to re-paint your team bus?

Regarding your #1:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=At5FNPHfAO.5bOb9AMzmRDs5nYcB?slug=afp-cyclingfraespbeltourbruyneel&prov=afp&type=lgns


More likely that he sells his contractual rights to Astana and FORCES Contador to stay with them. Would be a truly DXXK move on his part since he agreed to an extra year to stay with JB.

 

[Publicus]

What AC said is also quite different than what JB said.



It is not the first time that what AC has said has differed from what his teammates and team manager has said. AC seems to gaining a long history of self serving excuses that seem to greatly stretch and distort the truth.

I've posted AC's further comments up thread from the Astana website. I'd suggest reading them all the way through before you make any more statements about AC "self serving excuses". Or not. In any event, JB created this situation and he bears responsibility for it.

 

[Aguirre]

maybe, but beating up on a 38 year old on his way out isnt saying much.
AC could become the next Heras when he left Postal.

this post is a joke? rather a stupidity
people like you might think there is no life before and after lance...
but AC won three big Tours whithin 15 months, and on his way for 4 big Tours in 2 years

 

[Publicus]

of course, I see, I was creating a possible scenario, not describing what happened...

My bad.

 

[Darrylc]

No...no he doesn't. He is there to win the dang race...not help. LA would never have helped. That is not what they pay him for...that is what they pay Klodi for. Klodi was cooked...period. I am not missing the point...the tour or any other pro cycling event is not a "feel good story". Since LA has come back all everyone seems to want is gifting of stages, yellow jerseys to aging racers who deserve it, etc. This is BS!! AC is there to win which is what he is doing.

Agreed, my God, AC is a f*****g amazing cyclist, and it is being ignored because of all the politics. I have enough politics at work, which I am sure most of you do too.

Everybody is going to miss the beginning of a very talented cyclists career.

 

[fulcrum]

That's not even close to what AC said in the interview. Read this post for the actual quote in Spanish and the translation: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=51973&postcount=316

Chomsky seems to be engaged in the art of the disinformation. I've read multiple articles that positively portray Contador yet "nobody has anything good to say about him". He doesn't know **** squat about his personality, yet Contador is a bad person.

Looks like defeating the Lance machine earns you that kind of press around here.

 

[lean mean &green]

More likely that he sells his contractual rights to Astana and FORCES Contador to stay with them. Would be a truly DXXK move on his part since he agreed to an extra year to stay with JB.

I hope not but Astana has more money than brains, JB could make money and send him to a shattered program with little leadership.

I'd really like to see AC in a Spanish team with strong management.

 

[fulcrum]

What AC said is also quite different than what JB said.



It is not the first time that what AC has said has differed from what his teammates and team manager has said. AC seems to gaining a long history of self serving excuses that seem to greatly stretch and distort the truth. He may be the best rider in the world but his character failures will likely one day catch up with him. AC would be better served to just admit hsi attack on Kloden was a tactical mistake and notlie or make things worse by lying or making excuses for his behavior. Mistakes are one thing and are easily forgettable but lying or distorting the truth is something that people will not forget for quite sometime. Whether AC is just young stupid, insecure, a bad person or whatever excuse he is slowly digging himself quite a reputation.

Oh yeah, give us one example of Contadors lying. Only one...

I will give you an example of JB lying though. In March, he said Contador would be THE team leader. At the beginning of the tour he changed his mind and made him "a" leader, together with Armstrong, letting the road decide who was the strongest. And the road did decide.

So why are you trying to character assessinate Contador and giving a free pass to JB? viased maybe?

 

[iceaxe]

I'll say that it will be better than JB does with Lance next year.

Lance will make more money for JB than contador ever could. Lance is lifting the entire french economy on his shoulders.

lance isnt a very good domestique to say the least. JB should make LA give AC a blow job in front of the other team members to crystalize the pecking order.

 

[Chomsky]

I've posted AC's further comments up thread from the Astana website. I'd suggest reading them all the way through before you make any more statements about AC "self serving excuses". Or not. In any event, JB created this situation and he bears responsibility for it.

As usual the logic of your post assumes that we should take whatever AC said at face value no matter how many people disagree with what he said and that we should always assume JB is conspiring against AC and is of course lying.

I know you hate LA and JB and you might even believe these things you post. But your posts not only distort reality but the laws of probability. To believe your posts the entire world, media, press, other teams, and AC's teammates have all been involved in a vast conspiracy against AC.

The bottmline is AC's attack was wrong and not only hurt Kloden's podium chances but endangered AC's chances at the yellow jersey by isolating him. JB was entirely correct when he told AC not to attack. AC just compounds the situation making it worse by offering excuses and distortions of the truth. You argue that it is JB's fault that he continually does not follow team orders, has alienated his teammates, makes poor decisions, has problems telling the truth and he does not get along with others. There is a reason why AC does not get along with people and no one will ever say anything positive or nice about his character. Where there is smoke there is usually a fire and in this case its arson. No matter how much you want to blame JB for AC's wounds the wounds are self inflicted.

 

[Publicus]

I hope not but Astana has more money than brains, JB could make money and send him to a shattered program with little leadership.

I'd really like to see AC in a Spanish team with strong management.

Garmin could really use a GC candidate.

 

[grumpyphil]

I'm not sure whether Contador is an idiot or a traitor. Either way, I hope he winds up on Silence-Lotto. He's either stupid or a stupid slimebag.

 

[Publicus]

As usual the logic of your post assumes that we should take whatever AC said at face value no matter how many people disagree with what he said and that we should always assume JB is conspiring against AC and is of course lying.

I know you hate LA and JB and you might even believe these things you post. But your posts not only distort reality but probability. To believe your posts the entire world, media, press, other teams, and AC's teammates have all been involved in a vast conspiracy against AC.

The bottmline is AC's attack was wrong and not only hurt Kloden's podium chances but endangered AC's chances at the yellow jersey by isolating him. JB was entirely correct when he told AC not to attack. AC just compounds the situation making it worse by offering excuses and distortions of the truth.

And the logic of your post is that we should take everything that JB, LA or anyone else says at face value. My post is reality since I didn't editorialize--just provided quotes from Contador. I don't know what conspiracy you are talking about. If you have issues take it up with Astana's press officer who posted the Team Update where you got your quote and Alberto Checks In, which is where I got my extended quotes.

Bottom line is that AK is a domestique, just like LA. If they make podium, bully on them. If they don't and the team wins the yellow jersey, then bully on the team. Even JB said that in the quote you are touting as the Gospel According to JB:

Our purpose is to win the Tour and we got a big step forward today. If we want everything we can end up with nothing and that’s not what we want. Second and third are not a goal. If it happens that’s ok but we don’t go after it. Winning the Tour is the goal.

As for my non-love of Lance, alas it is true. I don't respect him as a competitor any more. I did before he came out of retirement--his story and my first bike, brought me to cycling and La Grande Boucle. But definitely don't hate him. No reason to. I do have a profound amount of respect for Contador and his racing style. He's conducted himself like a mature adult throughout this entire process (I'm sure you will disagree), recognizing that it doesn't matter what JB says about him being the leader, Lance is going to try and win and he's going to have to beat him just like he has to beat Andy Schleck et al. So no whining about deserving respect for the 3 grand tours, or that he was brought there as the GC candidate. Let the road decide. It did. If the old man wanted to relive his glory days, he should have called up Versus and asked them to pull together a highlight reel.

 

[jilbiker]

As usual the logic of your post assumes that we should take whatever AC said at face value no matter how many people disagree with what he said and that we should always assume JB is conspiring against AC and is of course lying.

I know you hate LA and JB and you might even believe these things you post. But your posts not only distort reality but the laws of probability. To believe your posts the entire world, media, press, other teams, and AC's teammates have all been involved in a vast conspiracy against AC.

The bottmline is AC's attack was wrong and not only hurt Kloden's podium chances but endangered AC's chances at the yellow jersey by isolating him. JB was entirely correct when he told AC not to attack. AC just compounds the situation making it worse by offering excuses and distortions of the truth. You argue that it is JB's fault that he continually does not follow team orders, has alienated his teammates, makes poor decisions, has problems telling the truth and he does not get along with others. There is a reason why AC does not get along with people and no one will ever say anything positive or nice about his character. Where there is smoke there is usually a fire and in this case its arson. No matter how much you want to blame JB for AC's wounds the wounds are self inflicted.

Where did you read that AC doesn't get on with people? Gets on with his spanish counterparts.

 

[grumpyphil]

AND beyond that...I won't be surprised to see Mr. C have a mechanical tom'r in the time trial....handlebars falling off would be appropro

 

[Publicus]

AND beyond that...I won't be surprised to see Mr. C have a mechanical tom'r in the time trial....handlebars falling off would be appropro

That's why he has his own personal mechanic.

 

[dienekes88]

Agreed, my God, AC is a f*****g amazing cyclist, and it is being ignored because of all the politics. I have enough politics at work, which I am sure most of you do too.

Everybody is going to miss the beginning of a very talented cyclists career.

False. You guys are missing the point.

Most people will agree that Contador has amazing talent. No one can talk about his record of 3 for 3 in Grand Tour starts without saying that he's one in a billion.

"He has a lot to learn" is not meant to denigrate his talent. He is the best stage racer in the world right now. The statement IS meant to say that he can go farther and higher if he hones his tactical acumen.

Not eating enough in Paris-Nice? It's a pretty novice mistake. Armstrong made it early in his Tour de France domination. Yes, at the time, LA had a lot to learn and he learned that lesson. Let's hope Contador learned his lesson and doesn't bonk on Ventoux.

Attacking unnecessarily and isolating yourself? Not necessarily the best idea. The Schlecks had already stopped attacking and were trading long pulls to distance Armstrong and Twiggo. With only a couple km left in the climb, Kloeden could've hung on in the classification (possibly). That would've been good for the sponsor. Furthermore, if one of the Schlecks attacked in the last few K, Kloeden might've been able to help in a chase after recovering on part of the descent.

Contador is NOT perfect. He's above everyone else at the moment, but he can do even more if he figured out these tactical things.

I'm sure a Contador fanboy is going to say "BUT CONTADOR DOESN'T NEED TACTICS!" Right now, he's just so strong that it might be true that he can just ride away from everyone at will. At some point, though, he will have to avoid these little mistakes. Andy Schleck is only going to get stronger. Tony Martin won't peak too early and will improve his resilience in the Grand Tours. Twiggo will improve his strength in the 3rd week... and will increase his mental fortitude (I have a feeling that he's also suffering from the pressure of the media and doping allegations).

 

[palmerq]

Hats off to contador, he´s turning into one of my favourites after this tour, I´m liking his attacking style, its good to see someone in yellow still trying to wins stages, even if it is a bit of an odd move. I doubt it made any difference though, klodi was done anyway, but well done for trying it makes it far more entertaining. I hope contador carries on in this style on mont ventoux, dont sit back and defend, attack attack attack.

I think with schleck and contador attacking each other the next few tours will be pretty interesting.

 

[Azdak6]

Hats off to contador, he´s turning into one of my favourites after this tour, I´m liking his attacking style, its good to see someone in yellow still trying to wins stages, even if it is a bit of an odd move. I doubt it made any difference though, klodi was done anyway, but well done for trying it makes it far more entertaining. I hope contador carries on in this style on mont ventoux, dont sit back and defend, attack attack attack.

I think with schleck and contador attacking each other the next few tours will be pretty interesting.

To me, having an "attacking style" and being a dumbass are two different things.

Undisciplined attacking just for the sake of attacking doesn't make much sense. I prefer a "winning" style myself.

It's like complaining you get no respect, making a big deal of riding off the front for a couple of minutes, then finishing 7:47 down. What did that "style" prove today?

 

[uphillstruggle]

why is there this assumption that AK would be able to help if the schlecks attacked, he got dropped, same as he would if they had attacked - he was spent.
Yes AC may have lost him a podium place but I see it more as him losing it himself, he couldn't even say with lance at the line.

 

[Psalmon]

Bullsh!t! Contador is the race leader, hardly has a team, has Lance trying to regain the throne, has a DS not in his corner, should try and gain time as much as he can...what the fook else is the guy supposed to do. Play 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Astana team tactics, or try to ensure for himself the win?

What would Armstrong have done? Or Hinault or Eddie have done? Come on, damn it, grow some balls! He would be the undisputed team leader on any other squadra. He only got caught up in team politics. If he wants to be the leader than he has to attack. Everything else is just whining from the Lance crew. Period.

Oh mis cajones son crecando!

Johan said it all post race. He told AC, "You don't need to attack to win the TdF." - undisputedly true, good direction. Were he not in his corner he would have encouraged an attack.

Any trouble on the descent (flat?) and the head line would read: Condador Isolates Self and Loses Yellow.

Armstrong (once he had it in the bag) always used his team to set pace until someone else attacked. An isolated Hinault had LeMond called back to help him (or it would have been 4). Merckx would have won 6, but crashed and lost to Thevenet by 3 minutes. It can happen.

If you look at it dispassionately, Contador is clearly the leader, Lance said it, has practiced it, the team has been all in front of AC, but Alberto made a blunder, and took a big risk (with his leadership and all their hard work).

With all that's come out on this, I'm surprised also that Kloden didn't know better than to say back to AC, "Oye a Johan!" along with under his breath "Oh mein Gott, meinen Hoden!"

 

[Mellow Velo]

There isn't even a thread on this on some of the other, longstanding cycle forums.
I wonder why?