Contador Isolates Self

[grumpyphil]

That's why he has his own personal mechanic.

And why that mechanic should be watching his back tonight

 

[palmerq]

To me, having an "attacking style" and being a dumbass are two different things.

Undisciplined attacking just for the sake of attacking doesn't make much sense. I prefer a "winning" style myself.

Contador is doing both :S he is winning and attacking this is good, he´s been stronger than the schlecks so far in the race, tried to do them again didnt work so well this time and no harm was done to his yellow jersey, well done to him. He´s not just attacing at random points for no reasons he trying to win stages and the whole thing and he´s doing a good job so far, I hope he wins on mont ventoux on saturday with another attacking move. I think contador is not as stupid as people like to think he is, and he´s making this race quite interesting.

 

[richwagmn]

He may be a great rider but it's become quite obvious Contador is not a good human being.

Wow, that's amazing. You must be an excellent judge of character to make that observation having watched a bike race.

According to AC, he talked with Kloden before the attack. He was obviously surprised that Kloden didn't come with. Did you see how often he was looking back?

He may not have had to attack, but he put himself in an excellent position to win now.

 

[dienekes88]

Oh mis cajones son crecando!

Johan said it all post race. He told AC, "You don't need to attack to win the TdF." - undisputedly true, good direction. Were he not in his corner he would have encouraged an attack.

Any trouble on the descent (flat?) and the head line would read: Condador Isolates Self and Loses Yellow.

Armstrong (once he had it in the bag) always used his team to set pace until someone else attacked. An isolated Hinault had LeMond called back to help him (or it would have been 4). Merckx would have won 6, but crashed and lost to Thevenet by 3 minutes. It can happen.

If you look at it dispassionately, Contador is clearly the leader, Lance said it, has practiced it, the team has been all in front of AC, but Alberto made a blunder, and took a big risk (with his leadership and all their hard work).

With all that's come out on this, I'm surprised also that Kloden didn't know better than to say back to AC, "Oye a Johan!" along with under his breath "Oh mein Gott, meinen Hoden!"

+1

With the buffer he had and the near assurance that he could distance his rivals on Mont Ventoux, keeping the powder dry and saving some snap for the TT would've been a better idea.

Talking about the fact that Merckx and Hinault would've attacked is not a fair comparison. Cycling lore has it that if people were ****ing off Hinault, he'd go to the front and ride tempo for an hour to punish everyone. That would never happen again. Merckx won a phenomenal percentage of the races he entered and won races year round. He was unmatchable... we will never see another like him... ever.

The Contador fanboys think he's the messiah! Apparently Contador can do no wrong.

 

[matsprt]

Garmin could really use a GC candidate.

I hear that the new Sapnish team will have Manolo Saiz as DS. That should give AC the strong management some think he needs.

 

[richwagmn]

That's why he has his own personal mechanic.

Yep, apparently AC isn't do dumb.

 

[scribe]

Sprocket dumb.

 

[richwagmn]

What did that "style" prove today?

That he's the best rider in this tour by far. Next question?

 

[richwagmn]

Sprocket dumb.

Nothing will get you respect faster than winning. Nothing.

 

[Coach Hawk]

Not really,

You tell the 37 year old 7-time Tour the France winner that he has been off for 3.5 years and that his return could upset the balance of the team. So you tell him to join in to help, you tell him to get his own team or you tell him to wait another year until a new team is built around him. 3 pretty clear options. But of course, JB knows Lance is money, so he throws his better judgement to the wind because of greed.

Sorry, I'm late to the fray and am only 1/2 way thru, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet...

Believe it or not, there is more to bike racing that winning the yellow jersey. JB had Alberto on Discovery with him and what happened in the long run?--NO MORE SPONSOR, NO MORE TEAM! He got LA back in there and sponsors are coming out of the woodwork and want to start a new team. So JB and 50+ other people get to have jobs next year. I don't necessarily consider that greedy, I call that being an smart leader with a lot of people counting on you.

Like it or not, there are fundamental economics in all of this and LA is a better investment than AC.

 

[grumpyphil]

That's why he has his own personal mechanic.

Nothing will get you respect faster than winning. Nothing.

Nothing will get you road rash faster than f**king your team.

 

[fulcrum]

Sorry, I'm late to the fray and am only 1/2 way thru, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet...

Believe it or not, there is more to bike racing that winning the yellow jersey. JB had Alberto on Discovery with him and what happened in the long run?--NO MORE SPONSOR, NO MORE TEAM! He got LA back in there and sponsors are coming out of the woodwork and want to start a new team. So JB and 50+ other people get to have jobs next year. I don't necessarily consider that greedy, I call that being an smart leader with a lot of people counting on you.

Like it or not, there are fundamental economics in all of this and LA is a better investment than AC.

Lance is a nuisance in Astana. Not an investment. They don't even pay him. He came to Astana late, hoping to leverage his personal puppet (JB) and screw Contador: a guy that is near his prime, up and coming and 26 years old.

Of course there are fundamental economics in all of this, and then there are also fundamental gradients uphill, and cash doesn't help much when the road heads up. So if you make your choice based on "fundamental economics" you end up in a situation like the one we are witnessing.

You cannot play with people's lifelihoods just because you saw greener pastures a year ahead. There is such a thing as commitment, and if you have created a team with Contador as leader and a goal, winning the TdF, you cannot start wavering and trying to fit Lance into that picture and push Contador out. It's a question of integrity. The fact that Lance is in Astana has created no jobs. The fact that Lance will be coming back with his own team next year will create jobs. And that is exactly what he should have done from the beginning, without creating the current mess at Astana.

 

[fulcrum]

Nothing will get you road rash faster than f**king your team.

payback's a bitch ain't it?

 

[dienekes88]

Sorry, I'm late to the fray and am only 1/2 way thru, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet...

Believe it or not, there is more to bike racing that winning the yellow jersey. JB had Alberto on Discovery with him and what happened in the long run?--NO MORE SPONSOR, NO MORE TEAM! He got LA back in there and sponsors are coming out of the woodwork and want to start a new team. So JB and 50+ other people get to have jobs next year. I don't necessarily consider that greedy, I call that being an smart leader with a lot of people counting on you.

Like it or not, there are fundamental economics in all of this and LA is a better investment than AC.

Crap. You just made way too much sense and in doing so supported LA.

You're going to get skewered!

Sorry, dude.

Money talks. We can bring out the 50's-style economic determinism analysis, but I don't think it's necessary. Money talks.

 

[dienekes88]

Lance is a nuisance in Astana. Not an investment. They don't even pay him. He came to Astana late, hoping to leverage his personal puppet (JB) and screw Contador: a guy that is near his prime, up and coming and 26 years old.

Of course there are fundamental economics in all of this, and then there are also fundamental gradients uphill, and cash doesn't help much when the road heads up. So if you make your choice based on "fundamental economics" you end up in a situation like the one we are witnessing.

You cannot play with people's lifelihoods just because you saw greener pastures a year ahead. There is such a thing as commitment, and if you have created a team with Contador as leader and a goal, winning the TdF, you cannot start wavering and trying to fit Lance into that picture and push Contador out. It's a question of integrity. The fact that Lance is in Astana has created no jobs. The fact that Lance will be coming back with his own team next year will create jobs. And that is exactly what he should have done from the beginning, without creating the current mess at Astana.

There's a difference between taking on LA... and truly supporting him as a contender for the Tour.

From the beginning, JB has had to try to balance the possible return of Vino, who has actually come back and the Kazakh government wants him on the team, with having the best rider... with general economic downturn (money is getting pulled from cycling... big problems for domestic US teams).

I don't blame him for looking at LA as a cash cow.

 

[nslckevin]

JB has already said that Contador and Lance are incompatible and that Contador won't be coming to the new team.

As for the finish, he didn't try to win . . . he didn't want any time gaps.

Vino said flat out that he was giving Bruyneel and Armstrong the boot (along with a few others), but that Contador was welcome to stay. Though I'm sure LA and JB are ready to leave it's not like staying at Astana and making nice with AC is even an option.

If Vino really does come back I think that Contador would be a fool to stay based on last year. Unless he just wants to win the Tour every OTHER year.

Kevin

 

[Publicus]

why is there this assumption that AK would be able to help if the schlecks attacked, he got dropped, same as he would if they had attacked - he was spent.
Yes AC may have lost him a podium place but I see it more as him losing it himself, he couldn't even say with lance at the line.

Agreed. He was done before Contador hit the switch. Once the band snapped, he couldn't get back. I guess Contador should have paced him over the summit. Bad teammate Contador! Bad teammate!

 

[fulcrum]

There's a difference between taking on LA... and truly supporting him as a contender for the Tour.

Yes there is and Johan Bruyneel has done both. He took on LA and he truly supported him as a contender for the Tour.

 

[grumpyphil]

payback's a bitch ain't it?

Yeah it is and knowing a bit about Lance you can bet it's on the way. In any .case, I'd bet Mr. C is dining quite alone tonight. He really deserves a severe thrashing.

 

[dienekes88]

Yes there is and Johan Bruyneel has done both. He took on LA and he truly supported him as a contender for the Tour.

Maybe if you believe everything you read in the press.

I tend to go the skeptical route.

 

[scribe]

Armstrong has manufactured his own podium placement while improving Contador's position. Bruyneel is now the envy of every team manager.

 

[Publicus]

Oh mis cajones son crecando!

Johan said it all post race. He told AC, "You don't need to attack to win the TdF." - undisputedly true, good direction. Were he not in his corner he would have encouraged an attack.

Any trouble on the descent (flat?) and the head line would read: Condador Isolates Self and Loses Yellow.

Armstrong (once he had it in the bag) always used his team to set pace until someone else attacked. An isolated Hinault had LeMond called back to help him (or it would have been 4). Merckx would have won 6, but crashed and lost to Thevenet by 3 minutes. It can happen.

If you look at it dispassionately, Contador is clearly the leader, Lance said it, has practiced it, the team has been all in front of AC, but Alberto made a blunder, and took a big risk (with his leadership and all their hard work).

With all that's come out on this, I'm surprised also that Kloden didn't know better than to say back to AC, "Oye a Johan!" along with under his breath "Oh mein Gott, meinen Hoden!"

That's what happened today--the Schlecks counter-attacked Sastre's initial attack and then all hell broke loose. Contador was covering attacks and riding wheels. Kloden wasn't setting tempo for him or chasing down attacks. He was just riding AC's wheel . . . until he couldn't. It's unfortunate and the kid clearly feels bad, but this attempt to indict him is getting ridiculous. I don't recall ANYONE suggesting that Lance hold his fire or take into consideration Azevedo's or Landis' podium potential when making decisions on the road.

 

[Publicus]

Yeah it is and knowing a bit about Lance you can bet it's on the way. In any .case, I'd bet Mr. C is dining quite alone tonight. He really deserves a severe thrashing.

I'm sure that's been the case throughout the Tour. He doesn't trust LA or JB at this point and frankly they've given him every reason not to do so. You reap what you sow.

 

[Publicus]

Armstrong has manufactured his own podium placement while improving Contador's position. Bruyneel is now the envy of every team manager.

How did Armstrong improve Contador's position?

 

[fulcrum]

Yeah it is and knowing a bit about Lance you can bet it's on the way. In any .case, I'd bet Mr. C is dining quite alone tonight. He really deserves a severe thrashing.

Only time will tell, but my guess is that a Contador 2010 with a good team around him will be much better than a Contador 2009 with the fox in the hen house.