Contador leaving Astana

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outrage9

outrage9

Jul 25, 2010
109
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Publicus said:
AC wanted out of Astana badly last year. They were allowing almost anyone to leave except AC because he was the key to their continued license (in addition to the money) and entry to every major Grand Tour. He was essentially held hostage. I think this has more to do with the Astana management and less to do with his happiness with the other riders (which seemed genuine) and Martinelli. Best I could tell he was biding his time and increasing his market value in the process. Shrewd move and ice water definitely flowing through his veins if this is remotely true/accurate.

Remember he spent a significant amount of time in Bruyneel run teams. For a variety of reasons, Astana 2010 never seemed to operate on that level of sophistication. It is only when it was truly gone that he understood the value. (pure conjecture on my part, but it makes some sense in light of his comments)
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Not exactly hostage, he had signed a binding 2 year contract of his own free will after knowing that LA was coming to Astana to go for 8. It was only right to serve it out. Definitely unfortunate that Astana have had 2 years worth of troubles though, the whole radio/tv issue may go back to the financial issues of last year (ala Team Faded in the Giro) it may not be able to afford him AND everything else it needs to run as a proper PT team. I'm sure working within Johan's organization for those years raised his level of comfort, I hate to use the word spoiled but things were just likely a lot better all around during the JB Disco/Astana days. He can get back to that and a focused team with Riis and, like his brother said, not have to worry about all of the other crap and just concentrate on riding the dang bike.
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
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outrage9 said:
Not exactly hostage, he had signed a binding 2 year contract of his own free will after knowing that LA was coming to Astana to go for 8. It was only right to serve it out. Definitely unfortunate that Astana have had 2 years worth of troubles though, the whole radio/tv issue may go back to the financial issues of last year (ala Team Faded in the Giro) it may not be able to afford him AND everything else it needs to run as a proper PT team. I'm sure working within Johan's organization for those years raised his level of comfort, I hate to use the word spoiled but things were just likely a lot better all around during the JB Disco/Astana days. He can get back to that and a focused team with Riis and, like his brother said, not have to worry about all of the other crap and just concentrate on riding the dang bike.
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I believe he signed a 3 year contract, which was obviously vefore he knew LA was coming back,I recall him complaining about LA's comeback and JB saying that AC had asked for a three year contract himself.
 
Publicus

Publicus

Mar 17, 2009
11,341
1
22,485
outrage9 said:
Not exactly hostage, he had signed a binding 2 year contract of his own free will after knowing that LA was coming to Astana to go for 8. It was only right to serve it out. Definitely unfortunate that Astana have had 2 years worth of troubles though, the whole radio/tv issue may go back to the financial issues of last year (ala Team Faded in the Giro) it may not be able to afford him AND everything else it needs to run as a proper PT team. I'm sure working within Johan's organization for those years raised his level of comfort, I hate to use the word spoiled but things were just likely a lot better all around during the JB Disco/Astana days. He can get back to that and a focused team with Riis and, like his brother said, not have to worry about all of the other crap and just concentrate on riding the dang bike.
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You have your facts wrong. AC had a 3 year deal that he signed in 2007, which was prior to Comeback 2.0 (iirc that announcement was made during the 2008 Vuelta). As for the binding contract, that's a fair point, but the reality is they (Astana) let several riders out of contracts--most of whom happened to sign with Radio Shack. AC wanted out, they weren't willing to entertain any offers to allow him to buy out his contract despite allowing for several other riders. I can dig up the names but iirc Kloden, zubeldia and Popo were all under valid contracts with Astana.
 
outrage9

outrage9

Jul 25, 2010
109
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0
Cerberus said:
I believe he signed a 3 year contract, which was obviously vefore he knew LA was coming back,I recall him complaining about LA's comeback and JB saying that AC had asked for a three year contract himself.
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I thought he had signed in Oct 08 for 2 years, have to go further in Google because everything coming up now is about right now. I can't believe he would sign a 3 year contract though in this day as a rising star with a TdF under his belt, thats crazy.
 
outrage9

outrage9

Jul 25, 2010
109
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What I actually could see happening is pricing himself out of a team. I hope he doesn't get the big head and let that happen.
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
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outrage9 said:
What I actually could see happening is pricing himself out of a team. I hope he doesn't get the big head and let that happen.
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There's strong rumours that he's already reached an agrement with Saxo save for minor details. In any case can you think of any case where an absolute top rider priced himself out of a team? It doesn't happen, if he tried, he'd realize it wasn't working at some point and accept a lower offer, no one is dumb enough to just keep thinking that someone will take his offer all the way through 2011.
 
I

irritated_cycling_fan

Jul 6, 2010
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hfer07

hfer07

Mar 17, 2009
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If AC & Co. are likely to be part of the new Bjarne Riis team, I wonder what is going to be like the rest of the team, since is being rumored that most of the guys that road the tour minus Cance are going to join Frank & Andy in their new team......
AC once again dealing with a formation of a new team? when is he going to settle at all? If he going to switch teams every other year as the money offers outbid the current one?
 
outrage9

outrage9

Jul 25, 2010
109
0
0
Cerberus said:
There's strong rumours that he's already reached an agrement with Saxo save for minor details. In any case can you think of any case where an absolute top rider priced himself out of a team? It doesn't happen, if he tried, he'd realize it wasn't working at some point and accept a lower offer, no one is dumb enough to just keep thinking that someone will take his offer all the way through 2011.
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Yeah I have seen the reports and posts since yesterday about a Riis connection. I don't think there had been a real chance though for something like this to happen since the big salaries came in to being which AND have such a dominate player other than Lance, and that situation never really came up to where he felt the need to search for a team one he got to be a heavy hitter, he was safe where he was. But AC has been through many teams already, and won Tours with the last 2 and looking to do so again in the next team. How many other teams out there that are true contenders, that have a spot, and a budget to negotiate for a top podium rider if something didn't work out with Riis? I think Astana was barely able to handle what it has for the past two years and was probably more than happy to get rid of a few paychecks to RS last year in order to keep Alberto, no need to even get in to trust and performance issue concerns they would have had with many of them loyal Johan riders that wanted to leave. Kloden is the only one I'm not certain where his loyalty lies but I'm sure he was a good chunk of released funds. But I think a lot of those guys were happy to get away from Astana to follow Johan regardless of whether they believed in Lance or not, especially for the older ones nearing the end, they knew it would be a good train to be on.
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
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irritated_cycling_fan said:
I believe that the riders who left in 2009 ended up legally able to do so due to Astana's administration mistakes. Remember, Astana missed a filing deadline. (http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/10/news/astanas-missed-deadline-may-give-contador-an-out_99519) I remember a number of conversations at that time with people talking about how surprised they were that Contador stayed when he legally had the right to go wherever he wanted.
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As I understand it the legallity wasn't 100% clear cut. Astana decided not to fight it for most of their riders, but would have fought it for Contador, he decided to accept a significant pay raise rather than engage in a protracted legal battle. 1/3 bribe, 1/3 extortion, 1/3 enforcing a legally binding contract.

In any case my personal opinion is that riders don't necessarily owe their teams automatic contract extensions. You pay the rider and he rides for you until the contract is up. Certainly you can chose to stay if you like where you are, but you don't need some extra special good excuse to leave if you can get more money or better conditions elsewhere.
 
hfer07

hfer07

Mar 17, 2009
8,421
959
19,680
irritated_cycling_fan said:
I believe that the riders who left in 2009 ended up legally able to do so due to Astana's administration mistakes. Remember, Astana missed a filing deadline. (http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/10/news/astanas-missed-deadline-may-give-contador-an-out_99519) I remember a number of conversations at that time with people talking about how surprised they were that Contador stayed when he legally had the right to go wherever he wanted.
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that statement is false-and perhaps you need to read once more the article you're referring to before you comment:

"If Contador succeeds in breaking the Astana contract, several teams will certainly be vying for his talents, chief among them Vaughters’ Garmin-Slipstream team and the Spanish Caisse d’Epargne squad, which, like Astana was not among the teams that met Tuesday’s deadline."
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since his contract was with Astana, he was forced to honor it-unlike the other riders who joined the Radio Shack whose contracts where with Bruyneel
that issue has been discussed endless times here .
 
Angliru

Angliru

Mar 10, 2009
9,245
23
17,530
hfer07 said:
If AC & Co. are likely to be part of the new Bjarne Riis team, I wonder what is going to be like the rest of the team, since is being rumored that most of the guys that road the tour minus Cance are going to join Frank & Andy in their new team......
AC once again dealing with a formation of a new team? when is he going to settle at all? If he going to switch teams every other year as the money offers outbid the current one?
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He must be thinking long term in the sense that Riis has a history of developing well rounded teams that produce in the grand tours and especially hold their own in the TTT. With Astana there were doubts as to how they would do in a tour with a TTT. Riis has the track record of success and of building strong comaraderie and unity in his teams, with the exception of the Sastre controversy from 2008. Astana will always have that sponsor looking over their shoulder insisting that a Kazakh, or 2 or 3 be included in the Tour team.
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
hfer07 said:
If AC & Co. are likely to be part of the new Bjarne Riis team, I wonder what is going to be like the rest of the team, since is being rumored that most of the guys that road the tour minus Cance are going to join Frank & Andy in their new team......
AC once again dealing with a formation of a new team? when is he going to settle at all? If he going to switch teams every other year as the money offers outbid the current one?
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Honestly I don't see a big issue, Contador will bring 3-4 Spaniards with him, who together with Chris Anker should make for an impressive Climbing team. Add Cancellara (if he isn't sold to make room in the budget for Contador) and Gustav Larsson and Richi Porte to that and you've got a great team to support Contador at the Tour.

ETA: Also how many are going to leave? Fuglsang is rumoured to the Schlecks, but Contadors Spaniards more than make up for that. Breschel is rumoured to leave, though less strongly than Fuglsang, but he's not a key player for GTs. Aside from those I've head no strong rumours.
 
gatete

gatete

Mar 17, 2009
295
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9,030
outrage9 said:
I thought he had signed in Oct 08 for 2 years, have to go further in Google because everything coming up now is about right now. I can't believe he would sign a 3 year contract though in this day as a rising star with a TdF under his belt, thats crazy.
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wouldn't know the exact date, but I remember the news saying in February 08 that Contador wouldn't be able to defend his Tour title because of his involvement with a tainted team (astana).
 
Publicus

Publicus

Mar 17, 2009
11,341
1
22,485
Cerberus said:
Honestly I don't see a big issue, Contador will bring 3-4 Spaniards with him, who together with Chris Anker should make for an impressive Climbing team. Add Cancellara (if he isn't sold to make room in the budget for Contador) and Gustav Larsson and Richi Porte to that and you've got a great team to support Contador at the Tour.

ETA: Also how many are going to leave? Fuglsang is rumoured to the Schlecks, but Contadors Spaniards more than make up for that. Breschel is rumoured to leave, though less strongly than Fuglsang, but he's not a key player for GTs. Aside from those I've head no strong rumours.
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But you do want to have a good team around Cancellara's interests as well. I think Jens! is retiring, and frankly he is irreplaceable. As for Breschel, his time will come since Cancellara is more than likely to leave at the end of 2011, and is there really a guarantee that he will get to ride the races he cares about in 2011 with the newly formed Schleck Team?
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
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Publicus said:
But you do want to have a good team around Cancellara's interests as well. I think Jens! is retiring, and frankly he is irreplaceable. As for Breschel, his time will come since Cancellara is more than likely to leave at the end of 2011, and is there really a guarantee that he will get to ride the races he cares about in 2011 with the newly formed Schleck Team?
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I actually think Jens might take one more year, that's my impression. As for Breschel I don't think he'll go with the Schlecks, the rumours I hear is that he either stays or goes to Rabobank. If he stays that certainly makes Saxo very strong for the Cobbled classics and there's a number of other good, but not star, cobbled riders on Saxo as well.
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Mar 31, 2010
18,136
6
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Cerberus said:
I actually think Jens might take one more year, that's my impression. As for Breschel I don't think he'll go with the Schlecks, the rumours I hear is that he either stays or goes to Rabobank. If he stays that certainly makes Saxo very strong for the Cobbled classics and there's a number of other good, but not star, cobbled riders on Saxo as well.
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jens has said after the tour that he hoped to be back next year so he will definetely continue.
 
nicholaaaas

nicholaaaas

Mar 14, 2009
252
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Galic Ho said:
You are deluding yourself. Check out the stages where Saxo set the early climb pace. Sorenson's pace, just like Navarro's, according to the Science of Sport guys, setting tempo for the lead group produced the highest wattage output. Those guys buried themselves and the lack of later attacks was mostly due to the hard pace Sorenson set at the pace. In short, he wore the other GC riders down so AS could be the last one on the climbs. It worked, but Contador was next to him. Can't ask for more from a domestique.
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guess what? cycling isn't just about watts. wow the had the highest watts on the lower slopes. great when AS has no team-mates left 10k to the summit and 30k to the finish
 
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