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Contador not given the time of Vino's group?

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Jan 20, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
he had a "spaak" broken in his wheel if he had changed his bike in final km he would've gotten vino's time I think?

Correct. Radios weren't working from what I read, team car wasn't anywhere near so he made an on the spot decision to keep riding and limit loses. i think he made the right 'sporting' decision, but he could have gained time from stopping and going for a wheel change 'mechanical'.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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scribe said:
If Contador bonks, it would be silly for Vino to not lay down a trail of fire up the tourmalet.

He's not capable of it. Seriously though, the whole Vino's not being a team player argument is laughable, I doubt whether he even knew Contador had dropped of the back in the last km, and in case anyone didn't notice, Vino worked hsi a#$e off for 20km trying to limit loses from the front group.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Night Rider said:
He's not capable of it. Seriously though, the whole Vino's not being a team player argument is laughable, I doubt whether he even knew Contador had dropped of the back in the last km, and in case anyone didn't notice, Vino worked hsi a#$e off for 20km trying to limit loses from the front group.
Okay...............
 
Mar 22, 2010
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Night Rider said:
He's not capable of it. Seriously though, the whole Vino's not being a team player argument is laughable, I doubt whether he even knew Contador had dropped of the back in the last km, and in case anyone didn't notice, Vino worked hsi a#$e off for 20km trying to limit loses from the front group.

I hope you are right. We all know how much AC struggles when his teammate is out to stab him in the back.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Climb_In_The_Drops said:
I'll say it again, the only chance Vino can win on the Tourmalet is if the race directors suddenly end the stage suddenly 1/3 up the mountain.

Dude. You've got 7 posts. How many times I gotta make you repeat yourself?
 
Climb_In_The_Drops said:
What I hate about watching races on TV is you can't figure out what is happening in all of the groups when the peloton explodes. I suppose this would be impossible. I did notice LA seem to really close the gap down after coming off the last section of pave. On TV it looked like he could possible latch on to the back of Contador's group. But I guess he was toast after that or the Contador group accelerated and it was over for Armstrong.

That was the magic of TV. He was at least two groups behind AC's group when they came off the cobbles. I believe he latched onto that group after the final cobble sector.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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Climb_In_The_Drops said:
What I hate about watching races on TV is you can't figure out what is happening in all of the groups when the peloton explodes. I suppose this would be impossible. I did notice LA seem to really close the gap down after coming off the last section of pave. On TV it looked like he could possible latch on to the back of Contador's group. But I guess he was toast after that or the Contador group accelerated and it was over for Armstrong.

What the announcers didn't make clear is that the Lance Group, which became the Contador group when Lance punctured, also split apart. Lance eventually caught the the group that was dropped by Contador, Wiggins, Vino, etc.
 
Apr 30, 2009
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scribe said:
Okay...............

Let's say that Contador is telling the truth as he understood it and that Vino was busting his **** to get him home. End of story. Not very interesting but that is probably what happened. Contador pointed to the back tire when he crossed the finish line. He looked more frustrated than gassed, but I think he thought he was lucky and that things could have been much worse so why complain too much. Ultimately he was thankful and had only nice words to say about his team, including Vino. So, why don't we just move on to something that makes sense, instead of pressing on the drama button all the time. Contador is going to kick **** when the race gets to the Pyrenees and Ms. Andy is going to be left in the dust. We know that because if it was going to be the other way around he wouldn't need to have gained time on the pave, unless, of course, he is already trying to make up for the time trial at the end of the race, which would not have been a bad idea on his part. The question here is not whether Vino is pulling for Contador or whether Contador had a broken spoke that interfered with his progress, but whether or not there will be any competition in this race once it gets going. Once Frank cashed out, I think, Andy did, too. Contador, Andy, Evans, in that order. Don't be surprised if Evans beats out Andy on the last day. Right now the race looks a little crappy, so I hope it picks up soon. The sprints look ridiculous, like we had to wait all day for THIS? Let's get it on.
 
Jan 6, 2010
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Just a couple of uick thoughts, having read a few of the posts on here. Firstly, the amount of absolute CLAPTRAP on here is amazing, There is NO WAY a FULLY FIT, Candy-driven Vino could even STAY with any of Menchov/Evans/Conti/Basso/Kreuzeiger/Schleck etc. So the idea of him riuding for himself would simply be delusional - unless he would rather finish 10th himself and have Conti maybe only finish 2nd then have Conti finish 1st. Not to mention Contador is also a better Time Triallist than Vino.
Secondly -= if Conti and Vino had have tried to change bikes 20 km from the end, 2 things would have happened - Contador, AT BEST, would have stuck with the group (gaining 20 secs from himself - 20 secs that I honestly can't see playing a difference unless he has about his worst day ever in a mountain stage AND has a REALLY bad TT), and secondly he would have expended a LOT more energy - possibly too much meaningat the weekend a couple of rearly gaps could catch him out.
On top of that, Vino would have lost a lot of time, AND worn himself out in the process, probably leaving him too exhausted to help (think the amount of effort he put in, the double it because of him riding of Alberto's faulty bike)
Also, if Conti had stopped in last km, there was no real guarantee the race organisers would have given him the same time as the vino group = they didn't when he clearly had a problem and struggled on with it so they may not have if the same problem had caused him to change bikes if they judged it actually happened earlier than 30 km (what they did when decidiong the result in reality). The chances of 20 secs being the difference between winning and coming 2nd, I would say, are about 1%. The odds that the race organisers didn't give him the s.t. as Vino et al was probably about that, maybe 2-3%. IF he had chosen to wait for the car and change it, he, at best, would have lost a couple of minutes (waiting for the car etc as IIRC it was a fair bit behind) - and those 2+ mins would have been MUCH more likely to cost him the tour. Overall, it was exactly the right decision.
And as many pointed out, after having being flat out at the front of the pack, and having confirmation that their radios weren'#t fully functioning, there was almost 0% chance Vino would have been able to notice conti was off the back, and even then, by the time he had dropped back and got ready to help, Conti wouldn't have been able to bridge back - best case scenario MAYBE gaining 5 secs compared to where he was in reality.

Final thoughts re: the whole team - last year, pretty much the ENTIRE team were against Conti - thus the mass exodus to help LA as soon as they could. Even *if* Vino gets a little delusional and stops riding for Conti and starts attacking early in mountain stages without asking, a) its GOOD for Conti as the *Other* teams (especially Saxo and RS) would be the ones who would have to go and chase him down and b) Conti has the rest of the team, including some VERY strong (probably STRONGER than RS IMO) mountain domestiques (Perrero, Fuente, Tiralongo ...) who are 100% behind conti to help him along.
 
Apr 30, 2009
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ManInFull said:
What the announcers didn't make clear is that the Lance Group, which became the Contador group when Lance punctured, also split apart. Lance eventually caught the the group that was dropped by Contador, Wiggins, Vino, etc.

This makes a point. The TDF announcers are basically Lance groupies. These people have their head so far up Armstrong's spokes that it makes you want to choke them. They are not going to put Armstrong out on any count believing that the whole world is watching and will turn off the TV if he is somehow out of the race. Mr. Liggett is trying too hard to make it out to be a Lance race, when there is so much more going on in it. The online broadcast service is much better, up until the point that the TV guys take over. Mr. Liggett and Packo should try getting the information accurate before trying to colorize it and turn it in to a 'Who's on First?" routine.
 
May 31, 2010
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if contador would have stopped for a wheel he would have got the same time. but he continued to ride.

sorry if anyone else has posted this but i am not into reading 9 pages of blahblagh
 
Mar 4, 2010
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so quite a few people are asking why contador kept going and why vino didn't hand him a wheel. well here is why

with a broken spoke, you can still maintain a pretty good speed. you just have to work a little harder that normal. it's not a puncture, the tyre still works.

if he had of stopped for a new wheel he's have finished behind armstrong as the cars were far behind.

if vino gave him his wheel he would finish with armstrong. why? because the people vino and contador were with would never have waited for him. and without vino he'd have never caught up to them. the group he was with had split in half and he'd have ended up in the second half. this was the group armstrong eventually managed to get up to.

there was never any chance he was ever going to get to schlecklet and cuddles as motorella was in full swing and was getting some assistance from cuddles and schlecklet. Contadors group was basically a vino TT
 
May 15, 2010
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scribe said:
Could Contador actually get on Vino's bike and ride in tandem?

Whatchyou talkin 'bout, Willis?


Gary-Coleman.jpg
 
ScottyMuser said:
... b) Conti has the rest of the team, including some VERY strong (probably STRONGER than RS IMO) mountain domestiques (Perrero, Fuente, Tiralongo ...) who are 100% behind conti to help him along.
You were doing good until you wrote this. Who's Perrero? If you are talking about Pereiro he announced his retirement for not being selected to the Tour.
 
Jun 3, 2010
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Well Armstrong has had all of his bad luck for the tour and is still only a couple of minutes down. I cant wait to see what bad luck contador will have in the weeks to come.
 
Jun 9, 2010
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lancewillwin8 said:
Well Armstrong has had all of his bad luck for the tour and is still only a couple of minutes down. I cant wait to see what bad luck contador will have in the weeks to come.

mmmmm well mate you can sit and w8 a crash in a descent or a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD TT =D

BUT that is not going to happen I'm pretty sure... I have a feeling that Lance will have another piece of cake called Karma for what he did last year :rolleyes:

but anyway...

mmmmm you guys really like the drama... stop watching Mtv's Real Life or another ((/)(/&$R/= like that... IMHO Vino is a great and a VERY STRONG teammate... I saw the last K and Vino was with the head down killing himself to bring El Pistolero quickly to the finish... he never turned back to see where Contador was... you could see in his face how concentrated he was... I'm pretty sure that Martinelli told him to hammer the gap that Spartacus's group had and Vino DID IT! that is the important notice from this stage... not what happen in the final K but what happen in the other 30 or 40kms...

I have very good feelings with Vino... I don't know but he is going to do it great in this TdF... he already did great in the Giro d'Italia (6th overall though)... this is going to be a great TdF for El Pistolero and Vino... but well you never know there are still another 15 stages =D
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Ryaguas said:
mmmmm well mate you can sit and w8 a crash in a descent or a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD TT =D

BUT that is not going to happen I'm pretty sure... I have a feeling that Lance will have another piece of cake called Karma for what he did last year :rolleyes:

but anyway...

mmmmm you guys really like the drama... stop watching Mtv's Real Life or another ((/)(/&$R/= like that... IMHO Vino is a great and a VERY STRONG teammate... I saw the last K and Vino was with the head down killing himself to bring El Pistolero quickly to the finish... he never turned back to see where Contador was... you could see in his face how concentrated he was... I'm pretty sure that Martinelli told him to hammer the gap that Spartacus's group had and Vino DID IT! that is the important notice from this stage... not what happen in the final K but what happen in the other 30 or 40kms...

I have very good feelings with Vino... I don't know but he is going to do it great in this TdF... he already did great in the Giro d'Italia (6th overall though)... this is going to be a great TdF for El Pistolero and Vino... but well you never know there are still another 15 stages =D
he crushed it like goat dumplings
 
Mar 9, 2010
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MacRoadie said:
I think you people are reading a whole helluva lot into about 500 meters of a single stage.

Vino rode himself cross-eyed over the final 10k to get Contador closer to the A. Schleck group, and Contador only got detached in the last K. You could see he crossed the line with a rear flat. That had to have just happened as you can lose 13 seconds almost immediately with a rear puncture, especially if the group is at 45-50 kph and you have to shut it down. Any further out and that gap would easily have been much higher.

Also, realistically, there's little chance Vino knew Contador was off: the team car had been pulled from behind the group, Contador and Vino were at opposite ends of the group, and Vino doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. The only way he would know is if Contador radioed the team car and Vino in fact heard them, all while going flat out down the corridor of sound that is the final k of a GT stage. Regardless, you just aren't listening to radios at that point in a stage.

I'm no Vino apologist, but I think suggesting this was Vino trying to dump Contador is going a bit too far out on the limb.

this IS and internet forum afterall. :p

good post. there is really not much going on here. vino, being the excitable boy that he is, simply paced his man to the end to gain him as much time as possible. he did not look back. race radios mean nothing in the last 500k anyway.

what happened to conta? did his failed wheel finally give way to a flat? or did he just crack as a result of a rubbing wheel and lots of cobbles at high speed? who knows. and it doesn't matter. this stage can only be considered a tremendous success for him. he dropped everyone, except cadel and andy. everyone else's tour is over. including and especially armstrong.

he will deal with cadel and andy later. cadel in the mountains. andy in the tt. an easy win for bertie from here.
 
I'd bet that Vino knew perfectly well that AC was tailed off that group and absolutely SLAUGHTERED himself to open a time gap there. He looked wiped out at the finish line like he'd really put in a humungous turn.