Contador vs. Froome

[Parker]

Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

To quote an 1930's American archaeology professor "It's not the age honey, it's the mileage"

Contador: 15 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Nibali: 13 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Froome: 10 Pro seasons, 14 Grand Tours

Froome has still has some juice to squeeze.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

Of course, we can also compare how Contador was riding until he was 28 with how Froome has ridden until the same age.

Probably won't be able to discuss that here.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

Of course, we can also compare how Contador was riding until he was 28 with how Froome has ridden until the same age.

No here, you need to go to the clinic for that discussion.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

To quote an 1930's American archaeology professor "It's not the age honey, it's the mileage"

Contador: 15 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Nibali: 13 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Froome: 10 Pro seasons, 14 Grand Tours

Froome has still has some juice to squeeze.

The answer is so obvious. Contador has been a different rider in the Tour since 28. He would have won more Tours but Cycling changed. He has adapted well but his true abilities are not that of some others.

 

[mrhender]

I think, no matter the arguments put forth here. There wont be much success - in changing opposite minds.

 

[mrhender]

They have both Excellent palmares. It could be argued, that they both could have done more prioritizing/betting differently. But in the end its guesses on what could have been. Looking forward will be interesting to see what both make of their final time at the top.

 

[Merckx index]

Re: Re:

Here’s another example suggesting the TDF is undervalued vs. the other two GTs. Suppose LA had achieved all his Tour wins clean, and hadn’t been stripped of them. Adding in his 2009 podium, lower place finishes in 2010 and pre-cancer, a 12th in the 2009 Giro and a 4th in the Vuelta, he comes up with 8210 points, barely more than Nibali (who isn’t done yet). Would anyone seriously claim that LA’s palmares, if legit, were no better than Nibs?

To quote an 1930's American archaeology professor "It's not the age honey, it's the mileage"

Contador: 15 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Nibali: 13 Pro seasons, 17 Grand Tours
Froome: 10 Pro seasons, 14 Grand Tours

Froome has still has some juice to squeeze.

Maybe, depending on how he ages. Another advantage Nibs has relative to the other two, so far, is that he's had a longer peak. You could say that peak began in 2010, when he podiumed in the Giro and won the Vuelta. He's had eight good years beginning then, every one of which he's at least podiumed in a GT, except 2015, when he was 4th in the Tour.

Froome has had 6 1/2 peak years, if we begin with the 2011 Vuelta. He may have a little more juice, but so may Nibs. Given Froome's late start, it would be expected he would have fewer peak years.

Contador, OTOH, has had his peak years interrupted by the suspension. Let's give him 2007-2011, five years, though his results in the last two of those years don't count. What has he had since? He hasn't been the same, at least in GTs, since then. We might give him half a year in 2012, when he won the Vuelta, 2014, though he crashed out of the Tour, and if you push it, 2015. So 7 1/2 years, and he's definitely past his peak now.

The saddest part, it seems to me, is that we never saw Contador vs. Froome in a highly competitive TDF, though they have both started the last five Tours. We only saw them in a highly competitive GT once, the 2014 Vuelta, and given the circumstances of that race, it's not clear to me that either rider was at his top form.

 

[hrotha]

Valverde might be more liked among Spanish cycling fans (although I'm not even sure about that; I think Contador's popularity has grown A LOT the last few years, when he became a bit more of a folk hero instead of a dominator), but among casual sports fans Contador is still king, I'd say. You can still trace TV ratings to whether or not Contador is riding or to how well he's doing.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

Of course, we can also compare how Contador was riding until he was 28 with how Froome has ridden until the same age.

Probably won't be able to discuss that here.

Precisely, therefore it's utterly useless to compare through the method you suggested... in this section of the forum, I mean. Which kills any intelligible debate that one could have, but those are the rules.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

How do the peak AC is no better than Bardet and company theorists reconcile that theory with the actual numbers? Can one of you provide some evidence of this view? Not to mention the 2015 Giro-Tour 1-5 double, which NQ has just put into context for us. And his head to head victory over Froome in the 2014 Tour, when both were putting out peak numbers and highly motivated, and Froome lacked the indomitable team and controllable structure?

Having said all that, I think Froome will win the Vurlta this year and will win one more Tour, which will end up getting him rated more highly than Contador. Like it or not, being on the elite 5-Tour shortlist means a lot more than Contador's broader success to most people. I could be wrong. In the end, history won't remember that Contador crashed here and there and had sh1tty teams, nor that Froome had the benefit of a dominant team and, at times, a healthy dose of luck (though Froome has done a remarkable job of converting lucky breaks thanks to his aggression, confidence, and consistency).

Just my two cents.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Let's compare how Froome is riding at his age compared to how Contador was at the same age. Froome is far superior when it matters. Then we can compare them when retired. Face it Froome is going to keep winning over and over. Then it would be nice to compare them Physiologically and you already know who is coming out on top.

Of course, we can also compare how Contador was riding until he was 28 with how Froome has ridden until the same age.

No here, you need to go to the clinic for that discussion.

...and you naively think Froome is going to fair well in a clinic discussion?

 

[mrhender]

Mostly agree. The SKY focus on classics seemed more like opportunism, and an attempt to shut the mouth of some critics, rather than a genuine broader focus. The TDF always came absolutely first in all they did. I agree with the point, that looking backwards on 4 (potential) 5-6 Tour wins for Froome will make most details/comparisons -and what if's for AC blurry.

 

[Pennino]

I feel so, so sorry for those who think Froome's the real deal. They just don't know what cycling is (or used to be).

 

[dacooley]

Re:

I feel so, so sorry for those who think Froome's the real deal. They just don't know what cycling is (or used to be).

yes, froome winning big races is terrible for cycling meanwhile contador doing exactly the same is what we are following this beautiful sport for. amazing, :lol:

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

I feel so, so sorry for those who think Froome's the real deal. They just don't know what cycling is (or used to be).

yes, froome winning big races is terrible for cycling meanwhile contador doing exactly the same is what we are following this beautiful sport for. amazing, :lol:

Not at all. Give me a Contador spring 2017 any time, any day over a Contador winning every big race Froome/Sky-style. But also the Contador era is nothing in comparison to what cycling used to be.

This is just, and I feel sorry for every single person involved putting so much effort in it, a ridiculous era which has almost nothing to do anymore with the great legacy of this magnificent sport. Okay, maybe I'm overstating here a little bit, but it's really p*ssing me off.

Back on topic: I'd prefer not to talk about this topic ever again. Period.

 

[glassmoon]

oh stop already with those ERAs. the era was only invented to cheat/calm the public rant about doping. not much have changed in those waters, not much of the difference between those "eras"

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

I feel so, so sorry for those who think Froome's the real deal. They just don't know what cycling is (or used to be).

yes, froome winning big races is terrible for cycling meanwhile contador doing exactly the same is what we are following this beautiful sport for. amazing, :lol:

Not at all. Give me a Contador spring 2017 any time, any day over a Contador winning every big race Froome/Sky-style. But also the Contador era is nothing in comparison to what cycling used to be.

This is just, and I feel sorry for every single person involved putting so much effort in it, a ridiculous era which has almost nothing to do anymore with the great legacy of this magnificent sport. Okay, maybe I'm overstating here a little bit, but it's really p*ssing me off.

Back on topic: I'd prefer not to talk about this topic ever again. Period.

the fact one loves a certain rider and feels excited about his racing style doesn't make the previous and succeeding eras ridiculous the way you are trying to put it. it makes them less pleasing and watchable from fan's perspective, but it's a completely different story. giving sky preference over contador is as normal as doing exactly the opposite and I'm not sure froome's fans have anything to be felt for.

 

[Pennino]

Re: Re:

I feel so, so sorry for those who think Froome's the real deal. They just don't know what cycling is (or used to be).

yes, froome winning big races is terrible for cycling meanwhile contador doing exactly the same is what we are following this beautiful sport for. amazing, :lol:

Not at all. Give me a Contador spring 2017 any time, any day over a Contador winning every big race Froome/Sky-style. But also the Contador era is nothing in comparison to what cycling used to be.

This is just, and I feel sorry for every single person involved putting so much effort in it, a ridiculous era which has almost nothing to do anymore with the great legacy of this magnificent sport. Okay, maybe I'm overstating here a little bit, but it's really p*ssing me off.

Back on topic: I'd prefer not to talk about this topic ever again. Period.

the fact one loves a certain rider and feels excited about his racing style doesn't make the previous and succeeding eras ridiculous the way you are trying to put it. it makes them less pleasing and watchable from fan's perspective, but it's a completely different story. giving sky preference over contador is as normal as doing exactly the opposite and I'm not sure froome's fans have anything to be felt for.

Well, theoretically yes. But Sky being an expensive train of some of the world's best GT riders just producing endless amounts of watts, in a ridiculously boring and emotionless fashion, in support of a rider who cannot be a bigger parody on a cyclist... I mean, I feel really sorry for those lads who think that is nice about cycling.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

If Froome goes on to win the Vuelta, do you think he may go and try the Giro? I think that would put him ahead of Contador being the rider who has held all three at the same time, not necessarily in the same year mind. I can't see him foregoing next years Tour though to equal the record of 5.

P.S. thanks for the ban, I apologise if I upset anyone for taking one of my posts literally.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

Valverde might be more liked among Spanish cycling fans (although I'm not even sure about that; I think Contador's popularity has grown A LOT the last few years, when he became a bit more of a folk hero instead of a dominator), but among casual sports fans Contador is still king, I'd say. You can still trace TV ratings to whether or not Contador is riding or to how well he's doing.

Can you? Is there an analysis of Contador's impact on ratings somewhere?

 

[Katabatic]

If Froome goes on to win the Vuelta, do you think he may go and try the Giro? I think that would put him ahead of Contador being the rider who has held all three at the same time, not necessarily in the same year mind. I can't see him foregoing next years Tour though to equal the record of 5.

P.S. thanks for the ban, I apologise if I upset anyone for taking one of my posts literally.

No chance he doesn't focus on Tour #5 no matter how he does the Vuelta.

Contador isn't as popular as Valverde in Spain for sure. It's probably more to do with Valverde riding for Spanish teams his entire career though.

 

[Taxus4a]

If Froome goes on to win the Vuelta, do you think he may go and try the Giro? I think that would put him ahead of Contador being the rider who has held all three at the same time, not necessarily in the same year mind. I can't see him foregoing next years Tour though to equal the record of 5.

P.S. thanks for the ban, I apologise if I upset anyone for taking one of my posts literally.

No chance he doesn't focus on Tour #5 no matter how he does the Vuelta.

Contador isn't as popular as Valverde in Spain for sure. It's probably more to do with Valverde riding for Spanish teams his entire career though.

I am from Spain, and Contador is the most popular.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

How do the peak AC is no better than Bardet and company theorists reconcile that theory with the actual numbers? Can one of you provide some evidence of this view? Not to mention the 2015 Giro-Tour 1-5 double, which NQ has just put into context for us. And his head to head victory over Froome in the 2014 Tour, when both were putting out peak numbers and highly motivated, and Froome lacked the indomitable team and controllable structure?

Having said all that, I think Froome will win the Vurlta this year and will win one more Tour, which will end up getting him rated more highly than Contador. Like it or not, being on the elite 5-Tour shortlist means a lot more than Contador's broader success to most people. I could be wrong. In the end, history won't remember that Contador crashed here and there and had sh1tty teams, nor that Froome had the benefit of a dominant team and, at times, a healthy dose of luck (though Froome has done a remarkable job of converting lucky breaks thanks to his aggression, confidence, and consistency).

Just my two cents.

Froome is already rated more highly than Contador, they face each other at his best in his best moments and Froome was better, at least with good weather. Contador wasnt a real rival for le Tour except in 2014 for Froome after his santion.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Valverde might be more liked among Spanish cycling fans (although I'm not even sure about that; I think Contador's popularity has grown A LOT the last few years, when he became a bit more of a folk hero instead of a dominator), but among casual sports fans Contador is still king, I'd say. You can still trace TV ratings to whether or not Contador is riding or to how well he's doing.

Can you? Is there an analysis of Contador's impact on ratings somewhere?

Well, no, I oversold my point. It's merely my impression from the very incomplete data I've seen.

 

[Red Rick]

From what I have seen and heard from people i know when discussing cycling the casual dutch fans loves Dutch riders and Sagan and Contador and then Nibali and they are almost universal in their dislike of Froome