Contador's fframe of mind and his attacks in the mountain stages

[Anonymous]

The gap was well over 30 and growing when Bruyneel called in them to share the work. Man up the road will get a call like that, since they all knew Contador was stronger in the mountains and ITT.

The other thing that catches my notice above. Contador and Lance in the room alone in the morning. To describe that situation means that Contador is the one singing like a bird. He is a champ and singing about how miserable it was to win around his team. All of these leaks are proving why he is not a team player, and why he couldn't win the respect from within.

My goodness, I am just not sure how to confront a denial such as this. All I can say is that you just make up stuff like The Uniballer. Have a nice life.

 

[ggusta]

He relaxed so that someone else would do the work. Plain and simple. No one strong enough was to his immediate aid. Cost him 40 seconds and created lots of stress on the team.

But that is all Lance's fault. I mean, it doesn't take a nobel peace prize to know he should have been in position to pull Contador through those winds, back up to the yellow jersey.

Nobel prizes don't know anything, they are inanimate. Now...Nobel Prize winners ARE supposed to know something. It doesn't take a Prima Donna with a twitter account to figure that out.

I don't think we will ever know what the communications were prior to the turn in the road. But a DS needs to have more sense than an inanimate object if he is going to handle his riders.

He lost control. And of course, we all know whose fault that is.

 

[scribe]

Pish Posh

Riis would have done the same thing if one of his usual 3 GC guys would have gotten up front on a split.

 

[Anonymous]

Pish Posh

Riis would have done the same thing if one of his usual 3 GC guys would have gotten up front on a split.

That is ridiculous. Lets say that the situation were reversed, and Lance hadn't made the split and Contador had (don't cop out with the "he was smart enough to be there" bit, actually answer the question), would Bruyneel have told Popo and Zubeldia to go to the front? (which was 15 seconds BTW, and the gap was closing)

Answer honestly if you are capable.

 

[Hugh Januss]

The other thing that catches my notice above. Contador and Lance in the room alone in the morning. To describe that situation means that Contador is the one singing like a bird. He is a champ and singing about how miserable it was to win around his team. All of these leaks are proving why he is not a team player, and why he couldn't win the respect from within.

Hello, it was a hotel dining room, you know the sorta place you might find waiters and maybe even another guest or two. Or to put it another way, witnesses.

 

[scribe]

That is ridiculous. Lets say that the situation were reversed, and Lance hadn't made the split and Contador had (don't cop out with the "he was smart enough to be there" bit, actually answer the question), would Bruyneel have told Popo and Zubeldia to go to the front? (which was 15 seconds BTW, and the gap was closing)

Answer honestly if you are capable.

2 things.

Contador will never get a Nobel Peace Prize. So he wouldn't have made the split, and no one on Astana is interested in shredding their legs for that singing mook.

I forgot my second point.

 

[scribe]

Not really my second point. But the only time the split was 15 seconds is when Contador was looking around for people to bridge the gap, and Cadel was there saying '**** that mate'

 

[Anonymous]

2 things.

Contador will never get a Nobel Peace Prize. So he wouldn't have made the split, and no one on Astana is interested in shredding their legs for that singing mook.

I forgot my second point.

In the words of John McEnroe: "The question, ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!"

Of course a chamos sniffing fangirl would never be honest enough to answer that question, so I never really expected you would.

Oh, and you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Popo and Zubeldia went to the front BECAUSE the gap was closing. You guys really are deluded.

 

[msjett]

Apparently, you only win by doing what you are told and as a team player ... sometimes doing what you are told is overrated...I say good on Contador, and frankly there is nothing wrong with that guys frame of mind, Contador, was there to win, and win he did.

 

[franciep10]

In the words of John McEnroe: "The question, ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!"

Of course a chamos sniffing fangirl would never be honest enough to answer that question, so I never really expected you would.

Oh, and you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Popo and Zubeldia went to the front BECAUSE the gap was closing. You guys really are deluded.

I agree with what you're saying, but these guys don't think rationally one guy is upset that alberto is telling the world that LA is a giant assh0le. The fact is contador was physically the strongest rider finally showed that LA mind games didn't work on him.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

This thread has been derailed.

Great post by Sukatz from El Pais. Very telling.

I think what a lot of people are missing is that it seems apparent to me that Contador held back, and was held back, many times during this Tour. I don't see anyway getting the MJ at Arcalis he would have been unable to hold it to Paris. Especially with how few of mountains there were in this Tour. He was almost the defacto MJ at that point anyway - the point of other riders concentration and focus. I actually think if he would have been unleashed, he would have won the Tour by several more minutes.

Almost this entire Tour Lance followed wheels. Mostly that of Kloden, but also Levi and Contador. I don't remember him launching one attack, regardless of Contador's position on the road, with only one counter move on Petit Bornand after being dropped. I also don't remember him doing any work for Contador, or Kloden for that matter.

I also feel as though Contador waited for Lance on Ventoux, in order to help get Lance on the podium. If he truly would have been against Lance, and against his own team the way Lance portrays him, Lance would haven't not stood a chance and been dropped much more often.

Does anyone really, truly think that Lance was held back here? Or if it had not been for Contador's actions, Lance would have won the Tour? It's just an absurd, fairy tale notion.

 

[Hugh Januss]

This thread has been derailed.

Great post by Sukatz from El Pais. Very telling.

I think what a lot of people are missing is that it seems apparent to me that Contador held back, and was held back, many times during this Tour. I don't see anyway getting the MJ at Arcalis he would have been unable to hold it to Paris. Especially with how few of mountains there were in this Tour. He was almost the defacto MJ at that point anyway - the point of other riders concentration and focus. I actually think if he would have been unleashed, he would have won the Tour by several more minutes.

Almost this entire Tour Lance followed wheels. Mostly that of Kloden, but also Levi and Contador. I don't remember him launching one attack, regardless of Contador's position on the road, with only one counter move on Petit Bornand after being dropped. I also don't remember him doing any work for Contador, or Kloden for that matter.

I also feel as though Contador waited for Lance on Ventoux, in order to help get Lance on the podium. If he truly would have been against Lance, and against his own team the way Lance portrays him, Lance would haven't not stood a chance and been dropped much more often.

Does anyone really, truly think that Lance was held back here? Or if it had not been for Contador's actions, Lance would have won the Tour? It's just an absurd, fairy tale notion.

That sounds like pretty much like the exact same TDF that I saw on TV. A whole lot of folks have argued around and around a whole lot of other stuff and sure you can hate LA or hate AC (mostly just because you luv LA sooo much) but in the end the young guy was just too strong for the old guy. So we really don't need to discuss it anymore.........G'nite.

 

[gatete]

He who laughs last, last better, or in this case tell better.

I mean Lance kept on an on about bitting tongues and all the blah blah that he as exposed as he is could, AC won the Tour and now I'll tell my story, that sounds to me like a much decent way, rather than "work" the media like Lance did. I've seen posts here about how AC is crying and showing drama but the fact is really in our faces, LA cried the hell out this tour, and no of them are saying a damn thing about that.

 

[LaBici]

He who laughs last, last better, or in this case tell better.
.

From the el pais article here is the words of El Chico from Pinto:

An Italian journalist asked of Alberto Contador if at any time he thought that Johan Bruyneel, the director of Astana, would have preferred that it was Lance Armstrong that had won the tour. El Chico from Pinto smiled broadly, with pure irony, and replied with eyes shining bright . "Good Question", he answered. "But perhaps you should be asking Johan instead of me. I have won and this is what counts."

Contador has won what he describes as "a double tour, of the Hotel and the Road", from the loneliness of the climber who longed only to be free to fly, from the loneliness, of being marginalized in his own team, in which all life revolves around Armstrong. Unlike anyone but him, therefore does it fit better, the short poem that a RAI commentator dedicated to Fausto Coppi 60 years ago, during the Queen Stage of the 1949 Giro: "A man alone in command ..". A man at the helm of a "Mental and physical Tour".

source : http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/uomo/solo/comando/elpepidep/20090727elpepidep_2/Tes
***

Contador is a champion in many ways. The North American press has tried to marginalize him and give too much credence to Armstrong. Lance and Bruynell tried to brow beat Alberto. He stood up to them, and he stood tall on the highest rung of the final podium in paris "Re del tour" king of the tour! The twittering former winner showed rancor and pettiness in his pithy tweets. The more I read and hear from the both of them the more i respect Condator and the less i think of the former tour winner.

Armstrong was trying to undermine Contador. He did rally some people around himself rather than be a real man and ride to support the obvious new king of the TdF. We saw this for ourselves.

 

[Zen Master]

found this translation of El Pais article on another forum

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo...trong-contador/dasclm/20090729dasdaicic_4/Tes

Thank you so much sukatz, and I found more interesting material about the same subject...

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo...trong-contador/dasclm/20090729dasdaicic_4/Tes

Benjamín Noval. Contador wanted him on the team but the former was excluded. Benjamin said "JB has created a very bad atmosphere on the team since Armstrong joined Astanta".

Press conferences / Media events - JB only went with Contador during the opening one from Monaco. He wasn't with Contador during the rest days nor during the final confered. Ostensibly, JB argued that he wanted to reduce the focus/emphasis on questions about Armstrong during Contador's press gatherings.

Break - LA got in a break during stage 3. Zubeldia and Popovych went on the break strictly on JB's orders, even though AC was behind. He lost 41 seconds.

Without hotels. Fran Contador and Jacinto Vidarte, media relations/spokesperson or AC, couldn't stay in some of the hotels of the Astana team because of friends/fans of Armstrong that were staying there/given preference.

On the bus. AC always had to teravel to the hotel on the team bus. Meanwhile, Armstrong did so in a private car/coach.

Champagane. Armstrong was the one who decided when (and if) the team victories, such as the team time trial (he Armstrong, decided this was to be celebrated). When AC took the lead in Verbier, Armstrong didn't think any celebration was merited or needed.

Twitter criticism. AC attacked in the 17th stage and cracked Klodie. Even after saying he was sorry, he still got criticized on twitter. Leipheimer wrote " If klodie loses a podium by 2 minutes, then we know why. And Armstrong: "I'll hold my tongue on that one"

Without a car in Annecy. Contador left the hotel for the ITT in his brother Fran's car. The team didn't have any vehicles available: some were on the course itself while the others picked up Armstrong's guests. It happened again on Ventoux: Contador came to the press hall with Fran and Jacinto, because the team cars had already left.

New team. Armstrong announced the formation of a new team, which Contador would not be a part of, to coincide with the final, decisive week of the tour. Only more tension was raised on the team as names of cyclists who would follow the Texan were announced.

Riding Gear. Contador had a series of sores due to the pad in his cycling shorts. He had to solve the problem on his own with a spanish shop and AC ended up doing the Ventoux stage with different bib shorts altogether.



... and more from Steephill.tv

It happened on Thursday, a few hours before the Annecy ITT. Contador came downstairs to the entrance of the Palace of Menthon, the luxurious Astana hotel. The Tour was in play. He looked right, then left. Nobody, nothing. No Astana cars or support staff. Cold sweat. A time check. Where are they? The hotel is several kilometers from the start. There he was, the leader of the Tour, in flip-flops, bag in hand and alone. He went to the hall looking for an answer: Armstrong had ordered the staff to go pick up his wife, kids and friends to the airport.

Contador left his room last because he was the last one starting the ITT. Armstrong had managed to take away his means of transportation. The straw that broke the camel’s back. Steaming with anger. He phoned his brother Fran. He came to pick him up by car and took him to Annecy in his own vehicle. He left last and finished first. His best victory. In the ITT. In solitude. The same way he won his second tour.

Contador’s toughest climb was not recorded in images. It was narrated by others. It was fought in the hotel and the bus: during one stage, Armstrong sat his guests at the very back of the bus, right in Contador’s usual seat. One more provocation. Armstrong to the luxury suite. Contador to sleep with Paulinho, the only ally. Same deal during the entire tour. Mouth shut, listening to Armstrong’s jabs: “It doesn’t take a Nobel prize to figure out what happens with side winds”. Contador didn’t reply in the hotel. He did on the road. He attacked in the first mountain finish in Arcalis. Without permission from Bruyneel, Armstrong’s DS. That night the Astana hotel was a funeral. Red eyes from the Texan (anger? crying? not sure). The first cyclist that stood up to him. And he did it in silence."

 

[Zen Master]

Unlike anyone but him, therefore does it fit better, the short poem that a RAI commentator dedicated to Fausto Coppi 60 years ago, during the Queen Stage of the 1949 Giro: "A man alone in command ..". A man at the helm of a "Mental and physical Tour".

Un uomo solo al comando. La sua maglia è bianco celeste, il suo nome è Fausto Coppi !!!

1949 Giro d'Italia: Cuneo - Pinerolo stage

 

[franciep10]

He did on the road. He attacked in the first mountain finish in Arcalis. Without permission from Bruyneel, Armstrong’s DS. That night the Astana hotel was a funeral. Red eyes from the Texan (anger? crying? not sure). The first cyclist that stood up to him. And he did it in silence."

Red eyes from from the texan, anger, crying? classic.

 

[manolo]

Pish Posh... Riis would have done the same thing if one of his usual 3 GC guys would have gotten up front on a split.

Andy was caught in that split, right? And Cancellara did do some work in that split, right? Maybe you're right! There's - maybe - some comfort in that it was flat stage and they all knew their boys could make it all back come the mountains. But I don't know if you're right. Maybe you are. If Frank Schleck had made the front group and Andy hadn't, maybe Riis would have said, screw it, work with them and we'll have two guys high up on GC! Did Alberto take it personally? Should he have relaxed and even celebrated that the team now had more cards to play?... Funny to think about this!

 

[manolo]

2 things... I forgot my second point.

Ha ha! Funny! Thanks!

 

[manolo]

I actually think if he would have been unleashed, he would have won the Tour by several more minutes.

I agree. Bruyneel probably felt he had to give Lance a chance at former glory. But, basically, I agree. Full on racing, he probably could have won Ventoux, left Armstrong for dead, who knows maybe Lance would have had a heart attack trying to hang on and lost minute after minute and completely dropped to 6th or 7th! Yeah, Contador held back!...

 

[Zen Master]

Pish Posh

Riis would have done the same thing if one of his usual 3 GC guys would have gotten up front on a split.

Ohhh really ?!

VeloNews Jul. 2, 2009

http://velonews.com/article/94182/riis-confident-in-saxo-squad

While Riis's plan is to start with Andy Schleck as team leader and his older brother Frank as back-up, he believes Astana will kill off any remaining doubts about who the team leader is by forcing Armstrong into a supporting role for Contador.


"To me, it's obvious they should have one leader and to me, that leader is Contador," Riis said Thursday, two days before his team, and Fabian Cancellara in particular, aim to grab the first yellow jersey of the race.

"If I should take a guess, that's the way it is going to be. If they have other plans, then it's going to be funny to watch."

 

[Hugh Januss]

"If I should take a guess, that's the way it is going to be. If they have other plans, then it's going to be funny to watch."

If he hasn't read these posts, he can't know how right he was.
It seems to me for the most part, and I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions, that the question of whether or not Lance was out of bounds with his behavior splits along a rough line based on bike racing experience.
So maybe the point needs to be translated to sports that some people understand better.
Imagine if you will that Brett Favre had'nt decided to finally (hopefully) retire for good, and instead announced he was coming back to help raise alzheimers awareness and that he was going to play for free for the Giants.
All season he was a good teammate, but as the play-offs approached he began to snipe at Eli Manning in the press.
By the Superbowl he was telling any and all who would listen that Manning was too young and inexperienced and he, Favre should be starting QB.
At the game he spent the whole time walking the sidelines trying to entice the crowd into "we want Favre" cheers. And then when Manning had won the game and was asked how he got along with his teammate the great Brett Favre he replied. Well he was a great player but on a personal level I have to say I lost a little respect for him there at the Superbowl.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

Ohhh really ?!

VeloNews Jul. 2, 2009

http://velonews.com/article/94182/riis-confident-in-saxo-squad

"If I should take a guess, that's the way it is going to be. If they have other plans, then it's going to be funny to watch."

Say what you will about Riis, but he was right about the "funny" part.

 

[LaBici]

Un uomo solo al comando. La sua maglia è bianco celeste, il suo nome è Fausto Coppi !!!

1949 Giro d'Italia: Cuneo - Pinerolo stage

thanks for the reminder! Fausto Coppi: una leggenda senza confini!

And so will it be for El Pistolero! He has the potential to enter the of the great cyclists!
pantheon

 

[horseman]

For me the best cyclist in this year's Tour won the race, Armstrong also did very well to get the third spot. It's a shame they had some internal team fighting but from what I've seen in other sports, as well as cycling, this is not unusual.