Contador's fframe of mind and his attacks in the mountain stages

[dolophonic]

Yeah, he didn't twitter that Levi should work on his bike handling skills when he crashed\crossed wheels at the TOC or at the Giro where he gaped on the descent... but he jumps on Alberto... Lance is so classy.
I guess that's cool in Lanceville.!

 

[Zen Master]

Great picture! Everything aside, it's great honor to be on a Grand Tour podium. I just wish LA and AC had been able to talk it all out so deserving people could have had a better shot at the podium, i.e., someone like super-domestique Kloden, one of my favorite riders! Ha ha!

Well I'm agree with you but Lance have this year a great chance to show something else than ( Do you know who I am ? & I have seven of the yellow jerseys at home !? ) his usual lofty and egomaniac attitude... but obviously he failed...

 

[thehog]

Great picture! Everything aside, it's great honor to be on a Grand Tour podium. I just wish LA and AC had been able to talk it all out so deserving people could have had a better shot at the podium, i.e., someone like super-domestique Kloden, one of my favorite riders! Ha ha!

I like this one:

If the drug testers can wait and wait and wait until they out the peloton's bad boys, then give Blazin' Saddles a little slack. Yes, you might all be engrossed in the post-Tour Criterium season or brushing up on your Spanish ahead of the Vuelta, but there's still time to sit back, take stock and dole out some prizes.

The Rocky Balboa Award for triumph in the face of adversity: Alberto Contador, who won his fourth Grand Tour in succession despite having as much support from his Astana team as a papier mache column in monsoon season. He even had to use his brother as a driver to get to the start of key stages after the team bus left without him!

The High-School Biggest Bully Award: Lance Armstrong (pictured), who despite his worthy intentions in the global fight against cancer, proved to be both nasty and oppressive at times. One side showed the Texan getting chummy with virtually everyone in the peloton (and Hollywood) while another saw the 37-year-old terrorize his team leader with a series of undermining interviews and posts on Twitter.

Worst Professionals: Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel for spitefully upstaging both Contador and Astana with information of their new RadioShack outfit before the race had even finished. No doubt, had the American been in yellow at the time, the focus would have been somewhat different.

Not Bad for an Old Man: Regardless of his behaviour, third place on the world's hardest bike race after more than three and a half years out is not to be baulked at. Without a broken collarbone in May, who knows what Armstrong could have achieved?

Best Sub-Plot: The fight for the green jersey was a feisty affair, with Cav the Chav unable to beat the Bull of Grimstad despite taking an imperious six stages on his way to completing the race for the first time. Thor Hushovd's solo break in the mountains to net vital intermediate sprint points showed the world why the big Norwegian probably tops Cav in the popularity stakes, but the scene is perfectly set for more fireworks in 2010.

Best Addition to the Tour: Twitter. It enabled you to see behind-the-scenes pictures of riders in their compression socks; it showed a new side to Cadel Evans's personality (the guy loves emoticons); it was used as a battle ground between LA and his many opponents, be it Garmin, AC or the race organisers; it allowed almost 600 contented souls to follow BS on twitter.com/saddleblaze.

Best Bike Handler: After becoming one of the first two Japanese riders to complete the Tour, Skil-Shimano's Fumiyuki Beppu performed an astonishing bouncy wheelie on the Champs Elysees that would make Robbie McEwen green with envy.

Best Boxer (prior to injury): Dutchman Piet Rooijakkers tried to give Cav a rib-crack during one tense sprint finish before suffering a horrible multiple fracture of the same arm days later.

Best Brothers: Despite early pressure from the frères Feillus, with their Erik Zabel-inspired black flattop hair styles, the Schleck brothers came good with a stage win and a podium place between them. With Andy touted to join RadioShack, would that be like taking the thin slice of meat from a ham and cheese sandwich?

Were You Really There?: Quick Step and Tom Boonen - did the Belgian team or their party-boy figurehead do anything of any merit during the three weeks? Poor Allan Davis.

 

[manolo]

Well, I agree with you... Lance had a great chance to show something else this year other than... his usual lofty and egomaniac attitude... but... he failed...

It would have been nice Contador, Armstrong, Kloden and the rest of Astana to have worked together as a team and arrived at finishes like the Schleck brothers did - gifting each other stages. What a shame. To have the firepower to fill the podium with Astana riders and let pettiness and self-centeredness and fear get the better of you. The other side of this is that the Schlecks, though admirable in their loyalty to each other, probably denied us a true show of force by ignoring the chance to win on Ventoux by concentrating on Frank's chances for a podium. It was kind of a boring win on Ventoux, considering the bigger guns were just concentrating on the final podium.

 

[manolo]

Johan Bruyneel : I always knew that the race would decide who would be the leader of the team... I know that some people thought that since I have a special relationship with Lance, that I would make decisions that influenced the race for Lance, however... my main concern was winning the Tour de France - whether it be with Alberto, Lance, Levi or Andreas.

... in the train from Avignon to Paris, I spoke with Alberto. He told me that he appreciated the way the race was directed from the team car... Lance... recognized that Alberto was better...

For me it is logical that Alberto does not want to share the leadership in the team and that he will not be teammates with Lance.

http://www.johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

I just wonder if a more capable director might have been able to get them to cooperate, or if Lance was way too persistent for Contador to have ever felt the jersey was safe on his shoulders. I wonder if Bryneel did the right thing by following Lance...

 

[manolo]

Johan Bruyneel:... For me it is logical that Alberto does not want to share the leadership in the team and that he will not be teammates with Lance.

http://www.johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

I just wish, all the awareness of the effect of this on the media be damned, that Johan would have said sometime during the race, "This boy [Contador] wants to win the Tour one way or the other. I have no control over him at all, but, as long as he wins in an Astana jersey, I won't complain, but, he is not following team orders, my directives much less Lance's or anyone else's! We're just grinning and bearing and doing 'damage control'... He will win, but he will win alone. He doesn't need a team to win and I've given up on him. He can do as he pleases, I'm just a man with a radio!" Heh heh!

 

[manolo]

Now to the part everyone wants to hear. A lot has been written and said about the war between Lance and Alberto...
http://www.johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

Going back to the idea behind this thread, I wish Johan had written more about Contador's frame of mind and how much he was or wasn't aware of it, how much he tried to influence it. If there were ever any heart-to-heart talks or just avoidant behavior and wishful thinking. It must have been a hard situation to manage, but I wonder if and how it could have been diminished to everyone's benefit. I always felt like the sitaution was mismanaged from the beginning, when I think, for example, that there was no direct communication to Contador that Armstrong was joining the team. I have the impression he found out through the media. Wow!...

 

[ggusta]

I just wonder if a more capable director might have been able to get them to cooperate, or if Lance was way too persistent for Contador to have ever felt the jersey was safe on his shoulders. I wonder if Bryneel did the right thing by following Lance...

I don't think JB had any idea the levels of madness that LA was willing to sink to in an efort to distract the obvious best cyclist at Astana away from his goal. I can't imagine he doesn't find the way he and LA handled things to be regrettable. LA's media sideshow took on centerstage and no one could get things refocused for the best interests of the team. Just imagine if he leaned on Wiggins, Frank or Andy that hard? Maybe they could have got a 1-2-3 result.

The sideshow will live on in the annals of TDF lore. And the man who sees himself as the hero will be remembered as the villain.

 

[ggusta]

I just wonder if a more capable director might have been able to get them to cooperate, or if Lance was way too persistent for Contador to have ever felt the jersey was safe on his shoulders. I wonder if Bryneel did the right thing by following Lance...

Interesting to wonder how much Lance is galled by their failure to finish the TTT 1 second faster. oh, the drama that would have been.

 

[ggusta]

I read just fine. My opinions are awesome and difficult to usurp as well.

I generally just scroll past your posts.

 

[ggusta]

I would have voted option number 1. I think Alberto felt that there would be pressure not to ride for the victory if LA got the yellow jersey first.

Regarding the vast majority of this thread, both LA and AC are self interested which is shown by their actions.

We really need an Uber New Topic that can give this one a dirt nap.

There have been a half dozen topics which keep returning to LA, AC and JB. Ya gotta give the people what they want. When something more interesting pops up, this subject will die a very quick and painless death.

 

[ggusta]

Uniballer was just trying to play his stupid mind games with AC, to put the pressure on Bertie and eventually shake him. And at the end of TdF we have this picture as a result of all Uniballer's efforts !?

Good job Lance and better luck next year

LA's character assassination of his teams GC favorite seems to me to be a premeditated and concerted effort to distract him from even before the TDF. I think LA knew he couldn't beat AC at the tdf without getting inside his head. Some of the pre- and post-stage interviews were laughably obvious. He would go out of his way to disparage AC when even a half-witted hemorrhoid with a really bad attitude could have just said 'heck with it, one more gratuitous insult would just look like sour grapes, may as well take the high road (for once)'.

I don't think it was simply that he couldn't resist one more hateful swipe. he had to keep doing it to try and throw him off his game.

Can't wait for 2010!

 

[Jonathan]

Ofcourse Contador would have attacked in the mountains, regardless of the identities of his teammates. He was the best climber, it would have been stupid not to attack.

I'm really looking forward to next year's Tour. After that one, we can all say: "One guy was the best, the other tried but just wasn't good enough," and leave it at that.

 

[manolo]

It would have taken a very different Armstrong and Bruyneel to have fostered in Contador a trust in the team that would have had Contador looking out for Armstrong and Kloden's GC positions, a la Andy Schleck, never abandoning his brother. Armstrong would have had to foster that relationship for probably ages to have had Contador's respect and deference. Probably impossible. But who knows, maybe Armstrong's crash really did put him behind in his training and had it not happened, maybe the Texan might have put in a better performance.

By the way, I wonder in what spirit Armstrong twittered this after the TTT:

"And they might need to repair the pavement on the sections where Alberto was pulling. All in all, great day."
12:34 PM Jul 7th from UberTwitter

"I thought the course was tough but proved to be 2x. Ouch. Popo and Klodi were on fire."

And I'll always wonder what would have happened, if anything, if Levi had been able to stick around! : )

 

[cromagnon]

LA's character assassination of his teams GC favorite seems to me to be a premeditated and concerted effort to distract him from even before the TDF.

It's interesting that LA's comeback was announced around the time AC was stamping his dominance on the Vuelta 08. The new team was announced when AC took a firm grip on the MJ at the 09 tour.

The criticism of AC when he cracked in Paris-Nice (looking back did he get all the support he could have had that day?).

Even riding in the car behind AC in the decisive Tour '07 timetrial might have been to put pressure on the guy who knows!

 

[Anonymous]

It would have taken a very different Armstrong and Bruyneel to have fostered in Contador a trust in the team that would have had Contador looking out for Armstrong and Kloden's GC positions, a la Andy Schleck, never abandoning his brother. Armstrong would have had to foster that relationship for probably ages to have had Contador's respect and deference. Probably impossible. But who knows, maybe Armstrong's crash really did put him behind in his training and had it not happened, maybe the Texan might have put in a better performance.

By the way, I wonder in what spirit Armstrong twittered this after the TTT:

"And they might need to repair the pavement on the sections where Alberto was pulling. All in all, great day."
12:34 PM Jul 7th from UberTwitter

"I thought the course was tough but proved to be 2x. Ouch. Popo and Klodi were on fire."

And I'll always wonder what would have happened, if anything, if Levi had been able to stick around! : )

Do you really believe this drivel?

Anyway, all that LL hanging around would have done is created one more rider that Contador put time into while kicking ass.

 

[ridelikethewind]

Well, you can interpret it as a pro-Armstrong position, but that just shows your own bias-weakness vs tactics.

But since you must know where I stand. I'll give you a hint. I was OK with Contador's attack on Arcalis from a tactical standpoint. It just wasn't so smart in the headwind.....

I know who you really are ........ you are Donald Rumsfeld.

 

[scribe]

I know who you really are ........ you are Donald Rumsfeld.

Damnit you! I just snorted beverage outta my nose!

Baghdad Bob, maybe. Neo-con wackjob, no!

 

[bianchigirl]

Contador has absolutely no need to prove anything to Armstrong - at the age of 27 he's already won 4 GTs (over half Armstrong's total tally), including the Tour and Giro at the first attempt, a Giro-Vuelta double and all three GTs. All this achieved at an age before Armstrong had even won his first GT.

And Contador has the added bonus of knowing he can attack off any pace any team sets in the mountains - I doubt whether the old men will be able to put any more into his legs than they managed this year, what with them all being a year older - and knowing exactly how to combat Team Shack tactics, as he knows them inside out. Additionally, Armstrong runs the risk of overstepping the mark if he tries to be as well 'prepared' as possible for 2010.

Finally, invaluably, Contador has taken everything Armstrong could throw at him in the dirty tricks department and emerged unscathed, triumphant, motivated and firmly on the moral high ground. Armstrong's problem is that he can't stand not being able to dominate a rider whose the real thing - Ullrich was fragile, Contador is much too tough, too proud, too Spanish to give in to Armstrong's playground bully taunting.

But it will be interesting to see whether ASO continue to protect Armstrong next season or decide that their future lies with a charming, talented, young Champion.

NB: the presumption of talent is posited on the 'level playing field' - given which Contador is still far more naturally talented than Armstrong

 

[manolo]

Contador has absolutely no need to prove anything to Armstrong... Contador know he can attack off any pace any[one] sets in the mountains... Contador has taken everything Armstrong could throw at him... Contador is... too tough...

I just wish Contador had felt more comfortable and not felt the need to attack or prove anything by attacking on the stage where he dropped Kloden. Boring as it may have been (or more than it was!), I would have preferred he suck wheel, take the high road and rest comfortably knowing he would smash everyone in the time trial. Let others drain themselves. Let Armstrong and Kloden fight for their podium position without having him off attacking and gaining no time on the Schlecks. He was quiet, but, in my opinion he would have looked even better if he had just ridden wheels and not attacked at La Grand Bournard. If he had never mentioned Armstrong post-Tour. He's tough, incredibly tough, but I wish he would have shown Armstrong a lesson not only on the bike, but with his character by (ironically, as Lance suggested through Twitter) thanking the team for their efforts, and, even if he only thanked Paulinho and the mechanics and his soigneur, and if for nothing else, for giving him the opportunity to show up in the race in their colors for another year. Ah! But I can see he wasn't comfortable. I wonder if because of his attitude others in the peloton see him as a primma donna, too individualistic or too-self centered. Would I want to be a domestique for him? For the right money I know I would, but, did his frame of mind before, during and after the tour alienate him?... I wish I could ask the peloton!

 

[Hugh Januss]

I just wish Contador had felt more comfortable and not felt the need to attack or prove anything by attacking on the stage where he dropped Kloden. Boring as it may have been (or more than it was!), I would have preferred he suck wheel, take the high road and rest comfortably knowing he would smash everyone in the time trial. Let others drain themselves. Let Armstrong and Kloden fight for their podium position without having him off attacking and gaining no time on the Schlecks. He was quiet, but, in my opinion he would have looked even better if he had just ridden wheels and not attacked at La Grand Bournard. If he had never mentioned Armstrong post-Tour. He's tough, incredibly tough, but I wish he would have shown Armstrong a lesson not only on the bike, but with his character by (ironically, as Lance suggested through Twitter) thanking the team for their efforts, and, even if he only thanked Paulinho and the mechanics and his soigneur, and if for nothing else, for giving him the opportunity to show up in the race in their colors for another year. Ah! But I can see he wasn't comfortable. I wonder if because of his attitude others in the peloton see him as a primma donna, too individualistic or too-self centered. Would I want to be a domestique for him? For the right money I know I would, but, did his frame of mind before, during and after the tour alienate him?... I wish I could ask the peloton!

I feel like we have been over this 100 times. It's like Ground Hogs Day (the movie).
If the team leader is off the front with his primary competion he doesn't worry too much about how his domestiques will do in the overall standings. If he thinks he sees a weakness he trys to exploit it. That is what Contador did, he attacked to try to drop at least Frank and maybe (double bonus) Andy as well. When he saw that unlike the days before they could counter his acceleration he desisted from further attacks. It was unfortunate that Kloden was already exausted from dragging Lance up the previous days climbs and was unable to hold on, but thats the way it goes, the race was up the road.

He thanked the team nightly, as we have heard, and he only said what he did about Armstrong when he was specifically asked in an interview in his home country after the race was over. Not like Lance who was shouting out his displeasure with Contador on an almost daily basis.

When it comes to teams for next year lets not kid ourselves, all these guys will make their decisions based on money and personal benefits and nothing else. If any rider chooses to go with Contador or with Armstrong it will be because they like the deal and the opportunity and not because they think one is a nicer guy than the other.

 

[scribe]

I feel like we have been over this 100 times. It's like Ground Hogs Day (the movie).
If the team leader is off the front with his primary competion he doesn't worry too much about how his domestiques will do in the overall standings. If he thinks he sees a weakness he trys to exploit it. That is what Contador did, he attacked to try to drop at least Frank and maybe (double bonus) Andy as well. When he saw that unlike the days before they could counter his acceleration he desisted from further attacks. It was unfortunate that Kloden was already exausted from dragging Lance up the previous days climbs and was unable to hold on, but thats the way it goes, the race was up the road.

He thanked the team nightly, as we have heard, and he only said what he did about Armstrong when he was specifically asked in an interview in his home country after the race was over. Not like Lance who was shouting out his displeasure with Contador on an almost daily basis.

When it comes to teams for next year lets not kid ourselves, all these guys will make their decisions based on money and personal benefits and nothing else. If any rider chooses to go with Contador or with Armstrong it will be because they like the deal and the opportunity and not because they think one is a nicer guy than the other.

Ned Briarston? Is that you??

This whole race should have been a showdown in the ITT, and Contador wasn't willing to take his chances there, so he attacked Shreks, Lance, etc, at every opportunity. Too bad Lance got Contie all fired up with the limousine situation before the ITT. I think Lance has a lot to learn with off-the-road tactics and will improve on all that next year.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ned Briarston? Is that you??

This whole race should have been a showdown in the ITT, and Contador wasn't willing to take his chances there, so he attacked Shreks, Lance, etc, at every opportunity. Too bad Lance got Contie all fired up with the limousine situation before the ITT. I think Lance has a lot to learn with off-the-road tactics and will improve on all that next year.

Don't be a dork! Why should the best rider in the race, who can take time in the mountains or ITTs not try his hand when he can rather than letting a 3 week race come down to one day? When you can, you go. Any day that you feel good and can gain time is a good day, and if you put a couple of those in the bank then you can survive a bad day, should it come.

 

[bianchigirl]

Seems to me there are too many people on this thread who've only seen the race ridden the USDiscatana way and hadn't realised there was a rich tradition of the MJ actually attacking alone to win the race

 

[manolo]

Why should the best rider in the race, who can take time in the mountains or ITTs not try his hand when he can rather than letting a 3 week race come down to one day? When you can, you go.

You may be right, and I am no professional racer, but, and this point can be counter-argued, when I looked at the stage profile and so those 10km after the final climb, I thought to myself "This is a stage for a solo artist - somebody who's going for stage glory". I thought of Ricardo Ricco last year, who would go for these knowing he'd be crushed in the time trial, I thought of Mikel Astarloza, famous for his escapes, I thought of Luis Leon Sanchez and of Oscar Pereiro (before he left the race, of course). I never thought the MJ would "waste" his energy, going for what might be "seconds", ahead of the time trial - so, to me, the attack looked silly and aimed more at Armstrong and with disregard for Kloden's chances at a podium position. Just my opinion. : )

Seems to me there are too many people on this thread who've only seen the race ridden the [US Postal-Discovery-Astana] way...

I think you're right! But! Personally, very personally, I also think there has never been a team so loaded with Tour de France podium finishers who had podium aspirations. I just think that, whether merited or not, whether deserved or not, Contador could have easily sat on the Schleck's wheel and then, if anything, take the stage. I guess you're right, but it's so strange to see an MJ attack and take two competitors with him! I haven't been seeing the Tour too long, "live" since 2003, on video since the 1998 edition, but it sure seemed like a funny place to put in an attack! I just can't recall other MJ's attacking on a climb with as much as 10ks left after the summit! Maybe I'm wrong, but for me, this kind of stage was not (!) for the MJ to attack, but only for 2nd and 3rd to try to strike. Frankly, I think Di Luca did something similar in the Giro, on Stage 10 on a Cat. 3 climb. But, though it was exciting (?), the result was a meager 10 seconds added. At least he rode his heart out till the end! Maybe that's how Armstrong rode his 7 Tours, as you point out. But I believe if another MJ made an attack like that, he would have at least gone for the stage win, not just pat Frank S. on the back and say "Go ahead. Take the stage. Oops! I meant to take time on you. Now that I didn't, you might as well take the stage glory." Ah! I'm just mad Contador didn't let Kloden get on the podium, to tell you the truth! : )