Contador's fframe of mind and his attacks in the mountain stages

[pmcg76]

Still rehashing this almost 3 months after, might as well join the fun. Only question that is relevant, who were the best 2 riders in the race. Contador & Schleck and they were well in front of all the rest. Astana were not going to get a podium sweep, period. In 20 years of follwing cycling, I never heard such a fuss about somebody who might have had a shot at finishing 3rd in the Tour, just goes to show how boring that race was.

Ifs and buts are all we hear on the Contador attack that dropped Kloeden, well using that logic, IF Contador and Schleck had went at it on the Ventoux, they would have left the rest in the dust and Andy would still have been second so forget Kloeden already, he couldnt even follow a minor acceleration, did he deserve a podium place, no.

We have also learned post-Tour that Astana were divided & giving very little support to Contador so he hardly owed them anything. The one recurring theme I have heard since the Tour is a lot of fans who had previously repsected or liked Lance changed their mind due to his childish antics at the Tour. Didnt hear anyone say they admired Lance more because of his behaviour. But you know what, well before the Tour started,April, May we had a debate on what was going to happen at the Tour and a lot of us on here agreed Lance/Bruyneel/Astana would try to screw Contador at every opportunity which is exactly what happened, just check back through the threads.

There should only ever have been one leader at Astana and that was Contador, at Postal the minute Leipheimer finished on the podium at the the Vuelta, he left, why? Postal had guys like Heras, Landis and Hamilton who won GTs or at the least challenged but I never once heard it mentioned that they would try to get a clean sweep at the Tour even though it was very possible. Why?

 

[Anonymous]

You really don't know what you are talking about. On the one hand you argue that they were too tired and thus Armstrong would have been able to close the gap because Wiggans imploded. On the other hand, because AC attacked, somehow they found new energy and put more time into Armstrong. I've copied your original argument below.



The mind reels.

I've already explained this argument twice. read my earlier reply.

Plenty of people have agreed with me on this point, that they ran out of contador bullets! they had given up trying to drop him, and as such, the pace of their group clearly dropped (i.e. the gap to armstrong was falling). Once AC attacked, they still had enough energy to put time into Kloden and therefore armstrong as well. They didnt find "new energy" or an "adrenalin rush", cleary with 20km to go, you're gonna have some reserves

Plenty of people agree with me that they changed their strategy mid-stage as well in order to get the brothers on the podium and put time into kloden and armstrong given how well contador was riding, so I doubt I "dont know what [I'm] talking about about"

I'm sorry your mind reels, but for the sake of the forum, try and keep up

 

[Publicus]

I've already explained this argument twice. read my earlier reply.

Plenty of people have agreed with me on this point, that they ran out of contador bullets! they had given up trying to drop him, and as such, the pace of their group clearly dropped (i.e. the gap to armstrong was falling). Once AC attacked, they still had enough energy to put time into Kloden and therefore armstrong as well. They didnt find "new energy" or an "adrenalin rush", cleary with 20km to go, you're gonna have some reserves

Plenty of people agree with me that they changed their strategy mid-stage as well in order to get the brothers on the podium and put time into kloden and armstrong given how well contador was riding, so I doubt I "dont know what [I'm] talking about about"

I'm sorry your mind reels, but for the sake of the forum, try and keep up

It hasn't made sense either time you've tried to explain it, so I'm not surprised that your explanation continues to defy basic logic.

 

[Anonymous]

It hasn't made sense either time you've tried to explain it, so I'm not surprised that your explanation continues to defy basic logic.

No worries, sounded logical to me tho. Happy to move on, and I accept our perceptions of the racing and strategy at the tour differ

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I've already explained this argument twice. read my earlier reply.
Plenty of people have agreed with me on this point, that they ran out of contador bullets! they had given up trying to drop him,

Yes, they did switch targets, but they did so LONG before the final climb. Thus the gap was reported at 1 minute 37 seconds just prior to Contador's move.

and as such, the pace of their group clearly dropped (i.e. the gap to armstrong was falling).

At what point was the gap falling? It might have stablized briefly thanks to Vande Velde, but he popped.

16:45 CEST 21km/148.5km
The gap between the two groups is 1'19"... The third group on the road has 3'17".
...16:54 CEST
Andy Schleck remains on the front.. They are 1'37" ahead of the Wiggins group, so the gap is going up.
Wiggins is doing all the riding here.
...16:56 CEST
Contador goes! He's clear....

Once AC attacked, they still had enough energy to put time into Kloden and therefore armstrong as well.

When Kloden got dropped, they went back to doing what they were already doing - riding hard tempo to get time on whoever they could.

They didnt find "new energy" or an "adrenalin rush", cleary with 20km to go, you're gonna have some reserves

Kloden didn't. He lost two and a half minutes.

Plenty of people agree with me that they changed their strategy mid-stage as well in order to get the brothers on the podium and put time into kloden and armstrong given how well contador was riding,

Again, yes but WAY earlier than you argue.

 

[manolo]

If I was as cooked as Kloden was, and Contador asked me if he could make an attack, I'd probably say sure... and you'd best get those two back on their heels[!]

That's where we disagree! : )

If I was Kloden, and Contador asked me if he could attack, I'd probably have said:

"Are you 'out-of-your-mind', you 'crazy -a*ss- mexican'? I'm fried! You egotistical *******! You've already got yellow, you narcissistic b*%$#@! And there's no way the two whippets are going to beat you in a time trial! I missed a shot at winning the 2007 Tour because of Vinokourov! I slaved for Jan for years! And now this? You want me to forget about my podium spot because you feel a fire in your shorts? Are you nuts? Get your skinny little a*ss in front of me and start towing! And while you're at it, on the descent drop back and help Lance. There might be a spot open up for you on our new team next year if you do! Otherwise, it's just gonna be you and Vino next year! Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team! Put your shiny yellow shorts right in front of my German nose where I can see them nice and clear! Nobody disrespects Johan's master plan! Nobody!" : )

Heh heh. That's just me, of course...

 

[ggusta]

I Don't get it

Some of the tour stages weren't terribly thrilling, but in my opinion it was quite dramatic, thanks to Armstrong. Say what you want about him, he plays the victim/scorned woman/Odysseus like nobody's bid-ness. It was an opera and he was The Fat Lady.

But yet, I have seen people say that it's a tribute to how boring the tour was that we are still yapping 3 months after the fact. HUH.

Yup, things that are boring usually hold my interest 3 months later. If it was boring to you, then why post to the thread.

As for Kloden getting to the podium, I really try to stay off of internet forums while tripping on acid. Andy had a hammerlock on second. Contador had yellow. End of story. It was just a matter of third, which Armstrong kept. Frank and Wiggins couldn't put any time on him.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Some of the tour stages weren't terribly thrilling, but in my opinion it was quite dramatic, thanks to Armstrong. Say what you want about him, he plays the victim/scorned woman/Odysseus like nobody's bid-ness. It was an opera and he was The Fat Lady.

But yet, I have seen people say that it's a tribute to how boring the tour was that we are still yapping 3 months after the fact. HUH.

Yup, things that are boring usually hold my interest 3 months later. If it was boring to you, then why post to the thread.

As for Kloden getting to the podium, I really try to stay off of internet forums while tripping on acid. Andy had a hammerlock on second. Contador had yellow. End of story. It was just a matter of third, which Armstrong kept. Frank and Wiggins couldn't put any time on him.

Ah, Odysseus, you lovable, lying cheat you!

Are blood bags hidden in a motor bike cycling's mythological equivalent to soldiers hiding in a wooden horse?

 

[Hugh Januss]

That's where we disagree! : )

If I was Kloden, and Contador asked me if he could attack, I'd probably have said:

"Are you 'out-of-your-mind', you 'crazy -a*ss- mexican'? I'm fried! You egotistical *******! You've already got yellow, you narcissistic b*%$#@! And there's no way the two whippets are going to beat you in a time trial! I missed a shot at winning the 2007 Tour because of Vinokourov! I slaved for Jan for years! And now this? You want me to forget about my podium spot because you feel a fire in your shorts? Are you nuts? Get your skinny little a*ss in front of me and start towing! And while you're at it, on the descent drop back and help Lance. There might be a spot open up for you on our new team next year if you do! Otherwise, it's just gonna be you and Vino next year! Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team! Put your shiny yellow shorts right in front of my German nose where I can see them nice and clear! Nobody disrespects Johan's master plan! Nobody!" : )

Heh heh. That's just me, of course...

No, I think what was going through Kloden's mind at that point was more along the lines of: " sweet, when Berto attacks them maybe he'll drop them, either way I'm going off the back and then I'll be able to throttle back to a pace I can actually maintain to the top of this climb. I hope somebody comes up from behind so I can suck wheels to the finish."

 

[franciep10]

Some of the tour stages weren't terribly thrilling, but in my opinion it was quite dramatic, thanks to Armstrong. Say what you want about him, he plays the victim/scorned woman/Odysseus like nobody's bid-ness. It was an opera and he was The Fat Lady.

But yet, I have seen people say that it's a tribute to how boring the tour was that we are still yapping 3 months after the fact. HUH.

Yup, things that are boring usually hold my interest 3 months later. If it was boring to you, then why post to the thread.

As for Kloden getting to the podium, I really try to stay off of internet forums while tripping on acid. Andy had a hammerlock on second. Contador had yellow. End of story. It was just a matter of third, which Armstrong kept. Frank and Wiggins couldn't put any time on him.

It's not actually the tour that we keep on talking about it's the drama off the road. On the road the tour was basically a beat down, it's the the talking after the beat-down that keeps us interested.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team!

Seriously?

 

[Boeing]

not sure there is anything much going on at all in that pea head of his

 

[Anonymous]

That's where we disagree! : )

If I was Kloden, and Contador asked me if he could attack, I'd probably have said:

"Are you 'out-of-your-mind', you 'crazy -a*ss- mexican'? I'm fried! You egotistical *******! You've already got yellow, you narcissistic b*%$#@! And there's no way the two whippets are going to beat you in a time trial! I missed a shot at winning the 2007 Tour because of Vinokourov! I slaved for Jan for years! And now this? You want me to forget about my podium spot because you feel a fire in your shorts? Are you nuts? Get your skinny little a*ss in front of me and start towing! And while you're at it, on the descent drop back and help Lance. There might be a spot open up for you on our new team next year if you do! Otherwise, it's just gonna be you and Vino next year! Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team! Put your shiny yellow shorts right in front of my German nose where I can see them nice and clear! Nobody disrespects Johan's master plan! Nobody!" : )

Heh heh. That's just me, of course...

+1000

I reckon JB would have said the same thing to him after the stage.. A little respect to Kloden for his tireless years of working for others would have been nice by AC, but I guess "T-E-A-M" in spanish translates to "A-L-B-E-R-T-O"...

 

[Hugh Januss]

+1000

I reckon JB would have said the same thing to him after the stage.. A little respect to Kloden for his tireless years of working for others would have been nice by AC, but I guess "T-E-A-M" in spanish translates to "A-L-B-E-R-T-O"...

And Mountain Goat translates to Bla-Bla-Bla F-N R-E-T-A-R-D

 

[Anonymous]

And Mountain Goat translates to Bla-Bla-Bla F-N R-E-T-A-R-D

WOW... Yet another contribution to cycling from Hugh to the professional road racing forum!! HAHAHA you're a cranky boy! I like ya!

Can't we just talk about cycling, it really is a great sport, a lot better than forum insults... Pretty please?

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

That's where we disagree! : )

If I was Kloden, and Contador asked me if he could attack, I'd probably have said:

"Are you 'out-of-your-mind', you 'crazy -a*ss- mexican'? I'm fried! You egotistical *******! You've already got yellow, you narcissistic b*%$#@! And there's no way the two whippets are going to beat you in a time trial! I missed a shot at winning the 2007 Tour because of Vinokourov! I slaved for Jan for years! And now this? You want me to forget about my podium spot because you feel a fire in your shorts? Are you nuts? Get your skinny little a*ss in front of me and start towing! And while you're at it, on the descent drop back and help Lance. There might be a spot open up for you on our new team next year if you do! Otherwise, it's just gonna be you and Vino next year! Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team! Put your shiny yellow shorts right in front of my German nose where I can see them nice and clear! Nobody disrespects Johan's master plan! Nobody!" : )

Heh heh. That's just me, of course...

Nobody disrespects the master plan?? Which version? The plan, as expressed by JB, at the start of the Tour was clear. There is one leader - Contador.

Did you feel the same way when Armstrong suggested otherwise?

 

[pmcg76]

That's where we disagree! : )

If I was Kloden, and Contador asked me if he could attack, I'd probably have said:

"Are you 'out-of-your-mind', you 'crazy -a*ss- mexican'? I'm fried! You egotistical *******! You've already got yellow, you narcissistic b*%$#@! And there's no way the two whippets are going to beat you in a time trial! I missed a shot at winning the 2007 Tour because of Vinokourov! I slaved for Jan for years! And now this? You want me to forget about my podium spot because you feel a fire in your shorts? Are you nuts? Get your skinny little a*ss in front of me and start towing! And while you're at it, on the descent drop back and help Lance. There might be a spot open up for you on our new team next year if you do! Otherwise, it's just gonna be you and Vino next year! Now, shut up pay your dues to the veterans of this team! Put your shiny yellow shorts right in front of my German nose where I can see them nice and clear! Nobody disrespects Johan's master plan! Nobody!" : )

Heh heh. That's just me, of course...

This can work both ways

I wonder what was going through his mind on the stage to Verbier.

AK, This is ridiculous, I have to wait on a guy who is clearly not going to win the Tour, hell I even beat him in the first time-trial, I am obviously stronger and could really put myself in a strong position to take a podium finish but I have to wait and drag this guy up the final climb whilst leading the other guys who are rivals to my team leader who is by far the best guy in the race.

**** man, I worked for Jan for years but I am not even working for the best guy on the team now, more like the No 3 guy, what kind of crap is this. This guy cant even keep up with me even though I am not goin at full pace, just why did I drag this has been up this climb when I could have been putting serious moves on 3rd place.....answers to Andreas Kloeden, Uni of Freiburg

 

[montagna lunga]

If AC is so good he must be doping.

 

[HL2037]

Are you sure Manolo aren't being ironic? When I first read his post I thought it was sarcastic and actually rather funny in exposing the obvious absurdness in criticizing Contador for Klöden not being on the podium. In case Manolo was actually serious, here we go again:

Of course Klöden did not think what Manolo suggests. At this point in the race there was only one podium spot left open. Bruijneel decided that Klöden was to help Armstrong get this spot, and Klöden accepted this. That really wasn't Contador's fault. Unless you expected him to break both legs on Andy Schleck, there was nothing he could have done.

Klöden worked for Ullrich and Vinoukorov earlier in his career, so they owe him a favour, not Contador!

I agree that it seems wrong that Armstrong got the podium spot, when Klöden was obviously physically stronger, but then again: If Klöden had dared do what Contador did and go against Bruijneel/Armstrong, then he would probably have placed third. But then he wouldn't have a nice secure job next year in the Shack, and God knows how Armstrong would have retaliated, nothing seems to be beneath that guy when it comes to childish revenge.

So Klöden chose the safe cowardly way, and that's the real reason he should be whining.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

If AC is so good he must be doping.

I would not dispute that.

 

[ruamruam]

It was almost worth seeing Armstrong getting third to see his reaction on the podium in Paris. He reminded me of my child when he is sulking

 

[ggusta]

It was almost worth seeing Armstrong getting third to see his reaction on the podium in Paris. He reminded me of my child when he is sulking

Imagine the sulking and excusemaking that will go on when he doesn't even podium in 2010.

My wife was amazed at his behavior on the podium. He is a congenital but t hole.

 

[montagna lunga]

It was almost worth seeing Armstrong getting third to see his reaction on the podium in Paris. He reminded me of my child when he is sulking

Your child sulks when he pays the salary of a "team"-mate who then rides away, as if they were on dope?

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

It was almost worth seeing Armstrong getting third to see his reaction on the podium in Paris. He reminded me of my child when he is sulking

There's a lyric by The Smiths that comes to mind...

I want the one I cant have
And its driving me mad
Its all over, all over, all over my face

 

[peloton]

Your child sulks when he pays the salary of a "team"-mate who then rides away, as if they were on dope?

Wrong place, take it to the clinic if you want to continue with the dope talk.