Convicted Doper/Dopers - Medal at Olympics?

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Caruut said:
I said exactly that today when talking about the women's race. I get that they want to do the whole touristy thing with the race, but no other sport gets this BS trying to capture famous landmarks combined with their events. Don't see table tennis in London Eye pods or anything.
Well, that is part of the charm of this thing of ours. It is not a set setting, it takes the race to the people, and landmarks is part of that. Cycling should be proud to be 1 of the very few sports with that opportunity, to in 1 race truly show what the host city is about rather than just a small specially prepared 200 by 200m area.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Johnny Rotten said:
You have missed my point, This is more about what the "Olympic Spirit" is about and if covicted dopers no matter the sport really represent the Olympic spirt as such?
The "Olympic Spirit" was gutted a long time ago.

Look into the history of Samaranch re his attitude of doping, and who actually owns the rights to all the Oly images. Hope you like chugging Coke...

The Olympics only have this sort of manifest value because the media and advertisers tell us that it's supposed to. There is larger competitive representation at each respective sports' World Championships, and therefor more competition.

The Olympics are a show, not a bad one at that, but still a show.

That's not to denigrate the ability to have all the stars align for your one shot at the Olys, but there a lot of athletes who have better palmares and just have a bad day.

Sorry if this is reiterating a previous poster, but I'm in a few pages late...
 
Apr 20, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Olympic spirit? LOL. The Olympics are totally corrupt. It is much worse than ordinary corruption because of the cynical use of nationalism.
this pretty much sums up my opinion, as well.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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D-Queued said:
Given the fine company that Vino had in the road race, and that fat Pat was officially lifetime banned himself from Olympic competition, this is a lesser of evils victory.

I am not going to get upset with Vino unless he undergoes gender change and goes for the women's medal next time. Then again, it would make the women's race a lot more interesting.

If it cannot be clean, we might as well have the sport go full genius. It is already pretty close.

Dave.
Vos would still kick his/her *ss...
 
May 25, 2010
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Those clean Olympics

Yes the clean ones win.

Ask Bauer and Grewal about "clean" Olympic road races. Its always been a joke.

Fortunately the joke today was on the riders who can't read a race will out someone screaming time gaps every minute into their earpiece.
 
Mar 26, 2011
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I guess reading this thread has made me realize it'd be wrong to ban Vino from competing but allow the protected snakes like Wiggo and Froome to compete... Until there is a real push to get rid of doping once and for all, we are screwed...
 
Jun 15, 2010
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hrotha said:
Ironically, British Cycling opened the door for Vino when they decided they wanted their own convicted cheat in the Olympic team. So, sorry Brits, no sympathy from me.

Personally I'm all for life bans, not only from the Olympics but from the sport, with the possibility to reduce the suspension if the athlete cooperates.
Not at all.The BOC fought for lifetime bans but were taken to court by WADA.
They weren't forced to pick him for the squad though.
 
Regarding banning sportspeople from the olympics after serving single doping ban only thing I could find acceptable is ban for the next Olympics. Basically anyone who gets caught between these Olympics and 2014 early August (Rio opening ceremony is on August 5) would be out of Rio games even if the ban is served.

Vino is of course OK with that since he missed Beijing during his ban.
 
May 21, 2010
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hrotha said:
Ironically, British Cycling opened the door for Vino when they decided they wanted their own convicted cheat in the Olympic team. So, sorry Brits, no sympathy from me.

Personally I'm all for life bans, not only from the Olympics but from the sport, with the possibility to reduce the suspension if the athlete cooperates.
As has been pointed out "The Brits" were the last man standing(or one of very few)when it comes to lifetime Olympic bans.
A stance supported by most of the atheletes....indeed some in the cycling team openly said Millar should not be picked including Hoy his fellow scot and guess who else...... Wiggans.I know the sky hate has permiatted every frickin thread but get a grip and get some facts.
 
simo1733 said:
Not at all.The BOC fought for lifetime bans but were taken to court by WADA.
They weren't forced to pick him for the squad though.
User Guide said:
As has been pointed out "The Brits" were the last man standing(or one of very few)when it comes to lifetime Olympic bans.
A stance supported by most of the atheletes....indeed some in the cycling team openly said Millar should not be picked including Hoy his fellow scot and guess who else...... Wiggans.I know the sky hate has permiatted every frickin thread but get a grip and get some facts.
I didn't mention the BOC, I mentioned British Cycling. Morally, when you select a convicted cheat you lose your high ground to complain about convicted cheats beating you. That's all I'm saying.

This is not like a track & field athelte earning his spot in the Olympics as per the rules. Millar got selected. No moral high ground.
 
May 21, 2010
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hrotha said:
I didn't mention the BOC, I mentioned British Cycling. Morally, when you select a convicted cheat you lose your high ground to complain about convicted cheats beating you. That's all I'm saying.

This is not like a track & field athelte earning his spot in the Olympics as per the rules. Millar got selected. No moral high ground.
You are quite correct,I misread my apologies.I have started to get a little defensive with the OTT sky/brit hate.

Indeed the fact he was selected and as I pointed out against the wishes of many of his fellow riders makes it worse.
Cav wanted him and Cav is a big star on Brailsfords commercial team(and Millars family friends with Brailsford no?)
Which is why Brailsford should have given up BC post when taking on sky project as conflict of interests.What if say JTL or anyone else has great form for the worlds has that spot been promised too say Stanard if he does donkey work for Cav etc etc??
 
May 21, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Britain will have 9 spots at the Worlds, and besides the Worlds route would mean that logically JTL is a better chance of victory (!) than Cav.
I meant work for cav race A you get race B etc etc, :mad: I edited it and I still made no sense lol:p

Ps I hope JTL is in shape too ride the worlds but as great talent as he may be ...
damn hes fragile/sickly(that and riding into horses at 50mph etc)
 
Imagine the story if he DID win it though, a guy from a Continental team who's never raced above the third tier! Would be possibly the biggest outsider to ever win it, and definitely the biggest outsider (and a bigger one) than Óscar Freire in 1999.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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FabulousCandelabra said:
I guess reading this thread has made me realize it'd be wrong to ban Vino from competing but allow the protected snakes like Wiggo and Froome to compete... Until there is a real push to get rid of doping once and for all, we are screwed...
IMO you have a point here. I have some ambivalent feelings right now. Although I was happy for Vino to have a great ending for his career, it also felt sort of strange yesterday when he won. Just wrong, because of his past, with the unevitable doping discussions becoming even more prominent again.
As some already mentioned, the only way to prevent someone who once cheated from winning again is lifetime bans. But then again, as you pointed out, it would still be rather unfair, since many actual dopers might just never get caught and banned.
I truly believe that there is never going to be any professional sport that is really 100% clean/free of any cheating. I would even go as far as to say: Sports should not be a profession anymore. No one should earn money with sport.
 
May 21, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Imagine the story if he DID win it though, a guy from a Continental team who's never raced above the third tier! Would be possibly the biggest outsider to ever win it, and definitely the biggest outsider (and a bigger one) than Óscar Freire in 1999.
It would be awesome, full circle was selected for worlds when young and back again to win after all his trials.....
The clinic would go into full meltdown
As would Jens Attacks especially in same year as Vinos win
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Jeanne said:
IMO you have a point here. I have some ambivalent feelings right now. Although I was happy for Vino to have a great ending for his career, it also felt sort of strange yesterday when he won. Just wrong, because of his past, with the unevitable doping discussions becoming even more prominent again.
As some already mentioned, the only way to prevent someone who once cheated from winning again is lifetime bans. But then again, as you pointed out, it would still be rather unfair, since many actual dopers might just never get caught and banned.
I truly believe that there is never going to be any professional sport that is really 100% clean/free of any cheating. I would even go as far as to say: Sports should not be a profession anymore. No one should earn money with sport.
Italian amateur racing is dreadful for doping.
 
I think Floyd sums it up fairly well:

Former professional rider Floyd Landis was quick to make light of Vinokourov's Olympic win. While the Daily Mail called the race winner a 'nobody' and CBS ran with the headline "Ex-doper Vinokourov wins Olympic road race", Landis contacted Cyclingnews with the following:

"If Vino says 'it's a victory for clean cycling" he'd be my hero. Alternatively if he said 'f*** every single mother******* one of you,' that would work too."
*
 
Hmmm ....

Spirit of the Olympics? When they intro'd pro sports, that changed a lot of said spirit.

Allow ex-dopers? Well, the IOC and WADA have made their decisions on this one. If we are OK with Millar, we can be OK with Vino.

BTW - it's interesting that some of the pro sports in the Olympics do not have to undergo IOC drug testing (the major league sports I believe, eg hockey for one).
 
Jun 25, 2012
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Johnny Rotten said:
Ok so this is just my opinion but,

My question is: if you are ever convicted of doping in a sport shoudl you therefore not be banned from olympic competition for life?

I am a preson that believes in lifetime bans and huge financial penalties for dopers. Today Vino one gold but he is a convicted doper and as such proves he is a cheat and as such not a fair play competitor.

For that reason I do not believe he deserved to have one gold today. I know there were others in teh race with a tainted past and they two should have been prevented from competition.

What do others think?

I have to say first. That I support harsher bans for doping (lifetime bans if its proven without doubt that its hard doping) but. there are so many other dopers in the Olympic and alot of racers that are not getting caugh.. before there is some real effort to stop the madness, there is nothing to do about stuff like this...

On the other side.. Vino atleast got some personality and feelings, so its not to bad he won, but as I said.. had I been in control, he would not be racing anymore, but alot of others would not be racing either.


I've seen people and even papers, saying vino is a bad guy and he is a super doper etc etc... but its like they refuse to look at the big picture, but instead cook this down to 1 man doping show, were everybody else are angels.
 
Jul 10, 2012
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Watch the opening ceremony of the 1936 Olympics and you will see that the "spirit of the Olympics" was ruined long long ago.

Truth be told, they probably should have done away with the olympics long ago. I'm sure they matter a lot to some people with an idealized image of them, Mary Lou Retton and Bruce Jenner, Kerri Strug, etc. but I think there is more negative about the games than positive.

I will make a few exceptions of course. I still love Oksana Baiul. And I like that it seems to be the only time I can see women's curling on TV.
 

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