Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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the sceptic said:
Cookson had no problem to let riders cheat and go against WADA guidelines as long as it was not public. Of course when the Froome affair broke he started spinning like a vortex on steroids. Very damning.
Cookson was also way too quick to jump to the defense of Froome. And very quick to jump on JTL when he mentioned the word "letters'.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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thehog said:
And very quick to jump on JTL when he mentioned the word "letters'.
Another little attempt at sophistry from Hoggie.....trying to link two unrelated facts, Cookson jumping on JTL and JTL mentioning "letters".........

Mark L
 
Jul 21, 2012
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thehog said:
Cookson was also way too quick to jump to the defense of Froome. And very quick to jump on JTL when he mentioned the word "letters'.
Maybe JTL had a look in the team sky TUE binder. It must have been about the same volume as the bible back in 2012-2013.
 
the sceptic said:
Maybe JTL had a look in the team sky TUE binder. It must have been about the same volume as the bible back in 2012-2013.
Froome has never seen his passport, so he doesn't know ;)

The Dawg TUEs would be the second testament. After Wiggins in 2012. Little Richie and his month long anti-biotics must be due a tropical illness anytime soon.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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.....and they are resorting to a Sky bash.....

.......because they've nothing factual to say about Cookson...

...its Pavolvian

Mark L
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
Congratulations.
Another fictitious, fact.
No amount of UCI talk, sweet or sour, was getting that bolted horse back inside the barn.
i wasn't stating a fact. imo stands for in my opinion. that's a fact.
the thread is full of facts, but if you prefer to continue to ignore them while clogging the thread, i understand.
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
Look at the thread title..... that is the premise.....frankly, in the grown-up world we all know that claims have to be backed up otherwise they have no value.....so far zilch........it really is no good you, and your two little mates, trying to get away from that with all your attempts at diversion


Mark L
So Cookson using the word 'hope' and Voigt in the same sentence means what exactly to you?

Cookson promised change, but like the politician kissing babies he had no intention of changing the sport, just how the sport is managed. Cookson has done little but try and tidy up the passing of information around, keeping doping as quiet as possible while try to promote that he has brought about change.

That Mark gets personal and has not come back with the 'massive changes' that Cookson promised in his manifesto and implemented shows that the argument is firmly against Cookson being good for the sport, if you want a clean and fair sport that adheres to the rules.....
 
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The usual little gang were jumping up and down stomping their feet and saying exactly the same things about Cookson seconds after he was elected.........a lot has happened in a year as detailed previously in this thread by those of an objective mind......maybe you expected Cookson to be some sort of omniscient, omnipotent presence....able to change 100 years of culture with a click of his fingers....rather than a man atop a shaky edifice...in a compromised environment....trying to exact change....against the wishes of the established vested interests.....

....DW inferred that Cookson was the same as the UCI of old...and tried to justify it by posting a 17 year old receipt that concerned Verbruggen....from a time when Cookson wasn't even a part of the British Cycling executive board....let alone the UCI :rolleyes:....... look what Cookson did to Verbruggen as soon as he was elected;)

.....that is how ridiculous some of the opinions posted here are......post nonsense and expect it to be exposed and exploded


Benotti69 said:
List away without attacking another poster.......
Strawman, Benotti, strawman
Mark L
 
ebandit said:
No Hoggie....I won't respond to your lame baiting tactics...just stay on topic and if you make claims back them up....simple

Mark L
I don't diagree. Tell us how pavlovian theory applies in this context per your post.

If one was making the statement; it can be backed up with some knowledge, yes? Or at least spell it correctly.

ebandit said:
.....and they are resorting to a Sky bash.....

.......because they've nothing factual to say about Cookson...

...its Pavolvian

Mark L
 
Jul 21, 2012
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thehog said:
I don't diagree. Tell us how pavlovian theory applies in this context per your post.

If one was making the statement; it can be backed up with some knowledge, yes? Or at least spell it correctly.
Random accusations should indeed be backed up by facts and evidence. Looking forward to Marks follow up.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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thehog said:
I don't diagree. Tell us how pavlovian theory applies in this context per your post.

If one was making the statement; it can be backed up with some knowledge, yes? Or at least spell it correctly.
Come come Hoggie.....you don't need me to explain your behaviours to you.....

...but ok, I will indulge you.........

....your Skybaiting is a learned conditioned response........when you find yourself in a corner you go OT towards something that you think will give you leverage....(in this case eliciting an emotional response from your presumed opponents that you can then attempt to manipulate) ....and manoeuvre attention away from the corner that you found yourself in

That corner...in case anybody had forgotten...was you and others failing to provide any cogent argument to support the premise of this thread

Mark L
 
the sceptic said:
Random accusations should indeed be backed up by facts and evidence. Looking forward to Marks follow up.
What Mark refers is 'subjective reasoning'.

Pavlovian theory requires in the first instance for there to be "stimulus" that then initiates the behavior or triggers the secretion of saliva in dogs at the of sound of bell in Pavlov’s test case.

Not sure an Internet forum whereby the context is for the users to input their opinions and discuss various topics can be considered "learned conditioned response" to a previously neutral stimuli. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Real Pavlovian theory might be when a poster modifies a username to elicit a framed response from them; examples like “Skeppy” or “Hoggie” or refer them as a “drunken tramp” – conditioned name calling when one has lost control or lacks a coherent argument to present on an internet forum. Psychology 101, it is indeed.
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
The usual little gang were jumping up and down stomping their feet and saying exactly the same things about Cookson seconds after he was elected.........a lot has happened in a year as detailed previously in this thread by those of an objective mind......maybe you expected Cookson to be some sort of omniscient, omnipotent presence....able to change 100 years of culture with a click of his fingers....rather than a man atop a shaky edifice...in a compromised environment....trying to exact change....against the wishes of the established vested interests.....

....DW inferred that Cookson was the same as the UCI of old...and tried to justify it by posting a 17 year old receipt that concerned Verbruggen....from a time when Cookson wasn't even a part of the British Cycling executive board....let alone the UCI :rolleyes:....... look what Cookson did to Verbruggen as soon as he was elected;)

.....that is how ridiculous some of the opinions posted here are......post nonsense and expect it to be exposed and exploded




Strawman, Benotti, strawman
Mark L
So you got nothing......surprise.............surprise.....not really......all you have been doing is attacking anyone who criticises Cookson's 1st year as President of UCI.

I mean it is not like Cookson didn't have years on a management committee to know where, who and what changes were required to clean out UCI and try to start cleaning up the sport!
 
Feb 28, 2010
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sniper said:
:confused:
it's a 75-page long thread with a lot of facts.

also, imo the minimal fact that he's a sweettalker where McQuaid only talked rubbish does support the position that Cookson is worse.
Cookson is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the fans.
McQuaid never managed to do that. Under McQuaid, USPS was always going to be uncovered. Under Cookson, USPS would have remained untouched.
So you follow `it's a 75-page long thread with a lot of facts.' with your own opinions completely unsullied by facts!
 
Benotti69 said:
Come on Mark, what has Cookson done that has brought real change?

List away without attacking another poster.......


Benotti69 said:
So you got nothing......surprise.............surprise.....not really......all you have been doing is attacking anyone who criticises Cookson's 1st year as President of UCI.

I mean it is not like Cookson didn't have years on a management committee to know where, who and what changes were required to clean out UCI and try to start cleaning up the sport!

Read..........the............thread title.
A clue: It's not: "How has Cookson made things better....."


What has Cookson done to make the UCI worse than it was under Pat?
Apparently, the only answer on offer is that he is a better communicator.:rolleyes:
 
ebandit said:
Its not for me to do that..
Then what is the point of polluting the thread with vague denials?

Disagree with me. I've been wrong, really, really wrong and that's okay. As always, the point is to develop a deeper understanding of a largely opaque organization.

Give me some different facts. Anyone! Please!
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Mellow Velo said:
Read..........the............thread title.
A clue: It's not: "How has Cookson made things better....."


What has Cookson done to make the UCI worse than it was under Pat?
Apparently, the only answer on offer is that he is a better communicator.:rolleyes:
Maybe you should read the thread. There are many examples made as to why Cookson is worse.

I appears you and other sky fans disagree (surprise surprise), but all you do is attack posters and not the points made. Since you think Cookson is better perhaps you could try arguing your case instead. That is how discussions work.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
Then what is the point of polluting the thread with vague denials?
Vague denials?....I critiqued your assertions regarding current UCI behaviour and demonstrated how a 17 year old document is not relevant

Disagree with me. I've been wrong, really, really wrong and that's okay. As always, the point is to develop a deeper understanding of a largely opaque organization.
Yes it is ok...especially as you now acknowledge your mistake....the point is that your undoubtedly well-intentioned attempt at understanding actually served to confuse because it could not be substantiated.....that's ok though, all cleared up :)

Give me some different facts. Anyone! Please!
Yes....Im waiting for some as well....lets revisit the thread title..."Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid"......no facts on this yet....especially from the thread starter :rolleyes:

Mark L
 
Aug 2, 2012
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the sceptic said:
Maybe you should read the thread. There are many examples made as to why Cookson is worse.
Ok...let's start with your OP...the post on which you set out why it is that Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid.....the reasoning which would substantiate such a bold assertion....

the sceptic said:
These tour stages in britain confirms to me that there is a huge cycling boom going on there. Every cat 4 climb looking like alpe d'huez.. its too much.
So lots of Tour spectators means Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid.......how many fewer spectators would have reassured you about Cookson?....where is the cut-off point between a suspicious number of spectators and an innocent number of spectators?....is that it?....no wait....theres more....

the sceptic said:
And as with any religion, the people need to believe. A sky positive would mean the british cycling empire goes down the drain, so I'm sure Cookson will do everything in his power to prevent that.
Yes....a speculation about a speculation....good going sceptic....really Grade A thinking there......that has it about sewn up :D

....oh, unless by "I'm sure Cookson will do everything in his power to prevent that" you mean that Cookson would tighten up the anti-doping regime to prevent any Sky doping....

....certainly looks like he has had an effect in that regard given Sky's disasterous decline since Cookson's election
 
May 26, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
Read..........the............thread title.
A clue: It's not: "How has Cookson made things better....."


What has Cookson done to make the UCI worse than it was under Pat?
Apparently, the only answer on offer is that he is a better communicator.:rolleyes:
Threads can evolve.

Some posters might find that after the false promises and lack of change that things are worse due to that!

But as posters can only get pedantic over the title of the thread it really does speak of how much things have changed for the sport.....
 
Aug 2, 2012
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Benotti ...read the thread title...it is claiming that things will get WORSE....not just 'not better'.....if it is WORSE where is the evidence?......why isn't Kimmage being sued twice over?.....why isn't Cookson getting into bed with Riis and Vino??

.....get it yet? where is the evidence that it is WORSE?
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
Benotti ...read the thread title...it is claiming that things will get WORSE....not just 'not better'.....if it is WORSE where is the evidence?......why isn't Kimmage being sued twice over?.....why isn't Cookson getting into bed with Riis and Vino??

.....get it yet? where is the evidence that it is WORSE?
As i posted. To some, Cookson offered a glimmer of hope, that he has not delivered for some might mean that he is worse. At least with McQuaid we got to see how badly run the sport was, now with Cookson and his management of pulling down the blinds we dont get to see how badly run the sport is.

So again get pedantic about the thread title, but dont give us any examples of all the good Cookson has done for the sport.

Riis and Vino are still going strong ;)
 

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