Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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ebandit said:
If it is under the table how do you know about it?.........any actual evidence for this?.......
I know evidence is a dirty word round here

Mark L
The demands for "evidence" continue.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-and-verbruggen-accused-of-corruption-in-report-summary

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/14027/Makarov-rules-out-opposing-McQuaid-for-UCI-presidency-but-says-governing-body-needs-reorganisation.aspx

Wait, don't tell me. That's not evidence of anything.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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I'll read your links in a minute....but don't misquote me....I asked for evidence not proof

Mark L
 
Aug 2, 2012
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Just as I thought ....a hysterical reaction attempting to link two stories to prove a point.....neither of the two links you give back up your claim

Your claim is that the UCI have been siphoning off revenue and not putting it back into cycling....no evidence of that at all.....the Makarov dossier contains claims of personal bribes......whilst Makarov's claims might be true (although the law authorities he claims to have given the dossier to have said nothing and he appears to have dropped it after his 'dossier' did its job in getting McQ ejected)....his claims are in no way related to your claim....straight forward fallacy on your part

Mark L


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ebandit said:
Just as I thought ....a hysterical reaction attempting to link two stories to prove a point.....neither of the two links you give back up your claim

Your claim is that the UCI have been siphoning off revenue and not putting it back into cycling....no evidence of that at all.....the Makarov dossier contains claims of personal bribes......whilst Makarov's claims might be true (although the law authorities he claims to have given the dossier to have said nothing and he appears to have dropped it after his 'dossier' did its job in getting McQ ejected)....his claims are in no way related to your claim....straight forward fallacy on your part

Mark L


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Because personal bribes are not siphoning cash from the sport. Ok. Yes, no evidence. At all. Anywhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7525072.stm

It would never happen.

Ignored.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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I'm not saying it would never happen......I'm asking you to back up your claim......you provided two links that didnt support your claim.....now it has taken you nearly two hours to find one nearly 20 year old example.......why didn't you post this one first....another example of having an opinion then desperately trying to search for evidence

Mark L
 
Feb 28, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
But you originally stated `Wait a minute, that's EXACTLY what the UCI is doing! Under the table.', but your `evidence' relates to what the UCI might have done in the past.
 
Hawkwood said:
But you originally stated `Wait a minute, that's EXACTLY what the UCI is doing! Under the table.', but your `evidence' relates to what the UCI might have done in the past.
Really? Did some kind of wave of honesty and good intentions (sunshine and happiness too) sweep through the UCI with Cookson's election?
 
Aug 2, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
Really? Did some kind of wave of honesty and good intentions (sunshine and happiness too) sweep through the UCI with Cookson's election?
Verbruggen no longer has a significant role............if you look very carefully at that near 20 year old receipt you tried to post as evidence you'll notice it has only Verbruggens name.........


Ooh......sorry......I forgot.......you are ignoring me .........because I held you to account :)

Mark L
 
Sep 20, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Really? Did some kind of wave of honesty and good intentions (sunshine and happiness too) sweep through the UCI with Cookson's election?
This is why your good intentions get lost! There are a lot of people who work for the UCI who you say are corrupt! I suspect that a lot of the people there are just trying to do their job! Sure there is corruption but I think you will find that is at the IOC and FIFA where the big money is! To the best of my knowledge there are no Feds queuing up for UCI Track Champs or World Cups which one might have thought Cookson was interested in given BC Cycling's dependence on UK Lottery money for track!
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
Verbruggen no longer has a significant role............if you look very carefully at that near 20 year old receipt you tried to post as evidence you'll notice it has only Verbruggens name.........


Ooh......sorry......I forgot.......you are ignoring me .........because I held you to account :)

Mark L
Verbruggen is an IOC member. That carrries a lot of weight. He is probably still part of UCI. Cant find anything about staff on UCI webstie, as they probably want it.
 
Benotti69 said:
Verbruggen is an IOC member. That carrries a lot of weight. He is probably still part of UCI. Cant find anything about staff on UCI webstie, as they probably want it.
Verbruggen's UCI title is permanent. Until death permanent. It's an open question what his involvement is like at the UCI now.
 
timmers said:
This is why your good intentions get lost! There are a lot of people who work for the UCI who you say are corrupt! I suspect that a lot of the people there are just trying to do their job!
Absolutely. I agree. Lots of well intentioned people being directed by a corrupt few.

From here, there is an endless argument about the ethics involved in being relatively honest yet directed to do things that aren't ethical.

That doesn't change the suspicion money from the sport is being passed "out of band" to important people at the UCI. It's a staple of some IOC sports. (ex. FIFA, IAAF)

And FYI, promoters are the ones who apply for running championship cycling events. Yes, the national federation assist, but the money for the rights to the event come from a promoter and usually that's sourced from public funds. The UCI's prices for licensing the events is likely ridiculous such that it makes almost no financial sense, thus the lack of interest in licensing the events. But, 'financial sense' is often unimportant and numbers fabricated to fit. See Ponferrada.
 
Benotti69 said:
Verbruggen is an IOC member.
No he isn't. He hasn't been since 2008. He is however an Honorary Member - a title they give to some retired members but has no actual influence or rights attached to it.

Benotti69 said:
He is probably still part of UCI. Cant find anything about staff on UCI webstie, as they probably want it.
All their staff can be found here: http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/
 
Parker said:
No he isn't. He hasn't been since 2008. He is however an Honorary Member - a title they give to some retired members but has no actual influence or rights attached to it.


All their staff can be found here: http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/
But, that doesn't mean he wasn't involved in the IOC's operations. He was the chairman of the IOC's broadcasting operation until just after Sochii. He also ran the IOC's effort at creating and running a second tier of sports until very recently as well. (SportAccord) Presumably, this was some kind of response to the x-games or something.


Broadcast change published here:
http://news.yahoo.com/canadas-pound-assigned-olympic-broadcast-role-140220738.html

Way back in 1999, that was a great way to make some money "out of band." http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1999/Report-Olympic-TV-Chief-Took-Money/id-506be8edf37b1aa967fc45a8a8e4da75

Here's a sportaccord reference. Getting your sport admitted to sportaccord would be another nice way to make some money "out of band." Like Keirin did. http://www.ifmamuaythai.org/support-for-ifma/sporting-organizations/sportaccord/hein-verbruggen/

I had promised His Royal Highness to keep on working to assist in getting Muaythai to the highest sporting level, so the 2010 SportAccord Combat games are part of this promise.

Cha-ching!!! $$$

Maybe Bach got tired of Hein's way of doing business?
 
DirtyWorks said:
But, that doesn't mean he wasn't involved in the IOC's operations. He was the chairman of the IOC's broadcasting operation until just after Sochii.

http://news.yahoo.com/canadas-pound-assigned-olympic-broadcast-role-140220738.html

FYI, that's a cool way to make money under the table from the makers of broadcast equipment.
I didn't say he couldn't be involved, just that he wasn't an IOC member. Incidentally, Dik Pound's antipathy towards cycling as head of WADA was largely just a personal feud with Verbrgguen after HV usurped him as the main TV guy in 2001.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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DirtyWorks said:
Absolutely. I agree. Lots of well intentioned people being directed by a corrupt few.
Who are the corrupt one's?




President

Mr Brian COOKSON (GBR)


Vice-presidents

Dr Mohamed Wagih AZZAM (EGY)

Ms Tracey GAUDRY (AUS)

Mr David LAPPARTIENT (FRA)


Members

Mr Mohamed BELMAHI (MAR)

Mr Hee Wook CHO (KOR)

Mr Renato DI ROCCO (ITA)

Mr Artur LOPES (POR)

Mr Igor Viktorovich MAKAROV (RUS)

Mr Emin MÜFTÜOGLU (TUR)

Mr Peder PEDERSEN (DEN)

Mr José Manuel PELAEZ (CUB)

Mr Mike PLANT (USA)

Mr Marian STETINA (CZE)

Mr Tom VAN DAMME (BEL)
 
Parker said:
I didn't say he couldn't be involved, just that he wasn't an IOC member. Incidentally, Dik Pound's antipathy towards cycling as head of WADA was largely just a personal feud with Verbrgguen after HV usurped him as the main TV guy in 2001.
Haha! Why am I not surprised. It's the IOC we're talking about. Thank you for the clarification. Sometimes I'm too literal.
 
For those asking what Cookson can do to support Kimmage, but not get in the legal excrament, it's pretty easy really.

He can pull a classic political trick, & either plant a question in a News Confrence/Interview, or answer a question no one is asking. Something along the lines of:

&quot said:
I have been asked a number of times to explain the UCI position with respect to the current Legal action between former UCI President Hein Vergruggen & Paul Kimmage. The UCI has ceased all legal action against PK, & this is a purely personal matter between the litigants; the UCI will, if requested, by either party, cooperate fully & provide any documentation, minutes, recordings or testimony requested.
The only part of the BS that would matter would be a clear message to Hein, that the UCI & it's employees would be required by the UCI to cooperate with PK if he requested. This should put the fear of God into Hein, because who knows what other interesting stuff PKs lawyers might find with unrestricted access to the UCI's files ? ;)
 
May 26, 2010
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Parker said:
No he isn't. He hasn't been since 2008. He is however an Honorary Member - a title they give to some retired members but has no actual influence or rights attached to it.
The IOC is the elite level of corruptness in world sport. I doubt Verbruggen has NO ACTUAL INFLUENCE!

UCI is a minnow compared to IOC, if an IOC member looks darkly at the UCI, the UCI needs to change its underwear......
 
May 26, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
Who are the corrupt one's?




President

Mr Brian COOKSON (GBR)


Vice-presidents

Dr Mohamed Wagih AZZAM (EGY)

Ms Tracey GAUDRY (AUS)

Mr David LAPPARTIENT (FRA)


Members

Mr Mohamed BELMAHI (MAR)

Mr Hee Wook CHO (KOR)

Mr Renato DI ROCCO (ITA)

Mr Artur LOPES (POR)

Mr Igor Viktorovich MAKAROV (RUS)

Mr Emin MÜFTÜOGLU (TUR)

Mr Peder PEDERSEN (DEN)

Mr José Manuel PELAEZ (CUB)

Mr Mike PLANT (USA)

Mr Marian STETINA (CZE)

Mr Tom VAN DAMME (BEL)
I think it would be prudent to ask, who are the ones above corruption?
 
Dec 11, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
I think it would be prudent to ask, who are the ones above corruption?
No one is above corruption.
That doesn't mean everyone is corrupt.

The comment made by Dirty Works was "Lots of well intentioned people being directed by a corrupt few." So it seems reasonable to ask who fits into each category and why. No?
 
Aug 2, 2012
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Tailwindhome is correct.....random unsupported accusations are worthless.....DirtyWorks has alleged that the top people at the UCI are corrupt......so far, when pressed to back up his claims he has responded with petulance and the word 'ignored'......and also a 17 year old document pertaining to somebody who is not a top person at the UCI

Mark L
 
ebandit said:
Tailwindhome is correct.....random unsupported accusations are worthless.....DirtyWorks has alleged that the top people at the UCI are corrupt......so far, when pressed to back up his claims he has responded with petulance and the word 'ignored'......and also a 17 year old document pertaining to somebody who is not a top person at the UCI

Mark L
Not really. If we took the position that "the world is not corrupt" until proven otherwise then they'd be chaos.

Life teaches that we should ask questions, that we look into the details and raise concerns as to corruption. Our governments tell us to "be suspicious and be aware".

That is what DW is doing. Asking questions. Shutting it down or attempting to censor is not constructive.

Armstrong is the obvisous example. If we trusted what we were being told he'd be going for his 11th Tour title this year. If it wasn't for a few asking those questions the world would not discover the truth.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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thehog said:
Not really. If we took the position that "the world is not corrupt" until proven otherwise then they'd be chaos.
Agreed. But that's not what I wrote.

Life teaches that we should ask questions, that we look into the details and raise concerns as to corruption. Our governments tell us to "be suspicious and be aware".
Agreed again. So in relation to those listed above what details are there that they're corrupt. Something more than the trite "they work for the UCI" would be helpful and educational.

That is what DW is doing. Asking questions.
No. It's not. DW is making an assertion. "Lots of well intentioned people being directed by a corrupt few" I'm the one asking the questions

Shutting it down or attempting to censor is not constructive.
Agreed again. But I'm not doing that. Ironically I think DW has me on ignore.

Armstrong is the obvisous example
Agreed again. You'll note that Armstrong started with a clean slate and was assumed by many to be what he said he was. Brave people gathered evidence until they had a Reasoned Decision's worth. Let us be brave and gather evidence.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
I think it would be prudent to ask, who are the ones above corruption?
No one is above corruption, especially people who aspire to positions of power. That is just how things work.

I still fail to see how Cookson is any better than McQ. He was part of the same system for years. Anyone who wants to be UCI president should imo be automatically disqualified.
 

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