Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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Dear Wiggo said:
TheSpud is saying the case is between Kimmage and another person - missing the point that it was started by the UCI.

I think Cookson can and should do more - an opinion to which I am entitled. Based on what CIRC turn up, if anything. HV should be pulling his head in unless he thinks the CIRC is toothless. It's a bit of a catch-22 but to say Cookson has no part is, imo, not quite right.
Yes the original case was that he slandered the UCI (and McQuaid and Verbruggen) but all that is left now is the Verbruggen case. It really has nothing to do with Cookson, unless of course he may be called as a witness. Or perhaps there is info in the CIRC process that will implicate Verbruggen - again if thats the case then Cookson may have been advised to say nothing.

The chances are that CIRC will report before this case gets settled, which if it implicates Verbruggen will likely save Kimmage.
 
May 26, 2010
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TheSpud said:
The problem with that argument is you want to have your cake and eat it - you want him to comment and act on all situations by bending the UCI like it was in the past. I thought it was the past that you didnt like?

The legal situation is between Kimmage and others - not between Kimmage and The UCI. It has nothing to do with Cookson. As head of the UCI he has probably been advised not to comment.

You can wax lyrical all you like bennoti, but the situation is not as simple as you would like to make out.
It has everything to do with the UCI, as the allegations were made when Hein and Pat were Puppeteer and Puppet at the UCI. Cookson now Puppeteer so it has everything to do with Cookson and he should make a statement about it.

Wonder has the CIRC been instructed to talk to Kimmage?

Would be worth finding out (are you reading this Benson?) who the legal team is for Hein, are they UCI lawyers? If so Cookson should be able to cancel the action?
 
May 26, 2010
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TheSpud said:
Yes the original case was that he slandered the UCI (and McQuaid and Verbruggen) but all that is left now is the Verbruggen case. It really has nothing to do with Cookson, unless of course he may be called as a witness. Or perhaps there is info in the CIRC process that will implicate Verbruggen - again if thats the case then Cookson may have been advised to say nothing.

The chances are that CIRC will report before this case gets settled, which if it implicates Verbruggen will likely save Kimmage.
Kimmage will not have to pay anything as he doesn't live in Switzerland so any claims the court awards against Kimmage will mean nothing. Kimmage i guess will have no problems avoiding Switzerland.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
It has everything to do with the UCI, as the allegations were made when Hein and Pat were Puppeteer and Puppet at the UCI. Cookson now Puppeteer so it has everything to do with Cookson and he should make a statement about it.

Wonder has the CIRC been instructed to talk to Kimmage?

Would be worth finding out (are you reading this Benson?) who the legal team is for Hein, are they UCI lawyers? If so Cookson should be able to cancel the action?
No, he shouldn't make a statement. Certainly not while the CIRC's work hasn't finished.

Removing Verbiest was one of Cookson's first acts. The Spud has this right, this is straightout between Hein and Kimmage now with Cookson removing the UCI away from it. That's all Cookson can do on this for the time being. Lets see how the findings of the CIRC goes, much of it might be helpful to Kimmage in the aftermath.

I don't know how you can use this as a battering ram to go after Cookson on.
 
gooner said:
No, he shouldn't make a statement. Certainly not while the CIRC's work hasn't finished.

Removing Verbiest was one of Cookson's first acts. The Spud has this right, this is straightout between Hein and Kimmage now with Cookson removing the UCI away from it. That's all Cookson can do on this for the time being. Lets see how the findings of the CIRC goes, much of it might be helpful to Kimmage in the aftermath.

I don't know how you can use this as a battering ram to go after Cookson on.
Verbiest was external counsel and never a member of the UCI. What did removing a 3rd party actually achieve?
 
May 10, 2009
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thehog said:
Verbiest was external counsel and never a member of the UCI. What did removing a 3rd party actually achieve?
Pr...zorzoli still there. And he's right in the middle.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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thehog said:
Verbiest was external counsel and never a member of the UCI. What did remove a 3rd party actually achieve?
How long was he involved? Lets not beat around the bush, he was a huge ally of those other two and synonymous with them.
 
May 26, 2010
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gooner said:
No, he shouldn't make a statement. Certainly not while the CIRC's work hasn't finished.

Removing Verbiest was one of Cookson's first acts. The Spud has this right, this is straightout between Hein and Kimmage now with Cookson removing the UCI away from it. That's all Cookson can do on this for the time being. Lets see how the findings of the CIRC goes, much of it might be helpful to Kimmage in the aftermath.

I don't know how you can use this as a battering ram to go after Cookson on.

I disagree.

Not using battering ram, but don't exaggerate or anything, Cookson was very happy to have so called anti doping people big up his campaign for election, not elected silence......

This is related to UCI, not possible to distance UCI from it.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
I disagree.

Not using battering ram, but don't exaggerate or anything, Cookson was very happy to have so called anti doping people big up his campaign for election, not elected silence......
You accused him of not being anti-doping on the basis of something you want him doing in relation to defending Kimmage. If anyone is using hyperbole, it's you coming to that very conclusion of Cookson not anti-doping because of this.

This is related to UCI, not possible to distance UCI from it.
The UCI's name is off it due to Cookson. This is now solely about Hein taking action against Kimmage for his opinions on Hein's rein. The CIRC is tackling this about him and McQuaid as we speak.

Patience Benotti, lets see the outcome. Much of it could be of help to Kimmage in the end.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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ebandit said:
Do you think The CIRC is about finding out if Hein and Pat doped?

Mark L
I'm not sure where you are going here.

I'm not really sure what the point of the CIRC is because the UCI answers to no one and has no interest in damaging it's brand in the name of a public confession in the form of a released CIRC report.

An analogy I made in another thread where this topic came up. The UNC athlete degree scandal finally breaks and the report makes the problem out to be two people. Both of whom have left. Two people running a fraudulent degree/class scheme in a giant university. Right. The CIRC report will likely be similar.
 
gooner said:
How long was he involved? Lets not beat around the bush, he was a huge ally of those other two and synonymous with them.
He was their legal counsel, so one suspects he upheld the wishes of his client. If he became Cookson's counsel he would be required to peform his duties in the same manner. Has nothing to do with corruption but duty of care to ones client.

Where's TUE man is still there and has all his good buddies on speed dial; Leinders, Farrell, Riis etc.

Sometime we need to look past the varnish to see the truth.
 
DirtyWorks said:
Wasn't their some leaked document of Verbiest's work bending the rules to fit an outcome the UCI desired?
No doubt. Legal counsel often makes interpretations on law (rules) to fit a desired result.

We’re already again seeing it with Cookson – Menchov etc.
 
Benotti69 said:
Kimmage will not have to pay anything as he doesn't live in Switzerland so any claims the court awards against Kimmage will mean nothing. Kimmage i guess will have no problems avoiding Switzerland.
Actually that's an interesting point, why is the case in Switzerland? I know that's where the UCI is but is that where Hein lives? Where has the slander actually happened - presumably wherever Kimmage was when he said what he said (likely Ireland or England). Why not sue in that country?
 
Feb 10, 2010
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TheSpud said:
Actually that's an interesting point, why is the case in Switzerland? I know that's where the UCI is but is that where Hein lives? Where has the slander actually happened - presumably wherever Kimmage was when he said what he said (likely Ireland or England). Why not sue in that country?
Because Hein lived in Switzerland at the time.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
I'm not sure where you are going here.

I'm not really sure what the point of the CIRC is because the UCI answers to no one and has no interest in damaging it's brand in the name of a public confession in the form of a released CIRC report.

An analogy I made in another thread where this topic came up. The UNC athlete degree scandal finally breaks and the report makes the problem out to be two people. Both of whom have left. Two people running a fraudulent degree/class scheme in a giant university. Right. The CIRC report will likely be similar.
You were saying there would be no legal implications......I pointed out that it isn't all about doping......

Mark L
 
May 26, 2010
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gooner said:
You accused him of not being anti-doping on the basis of something you want him doing in relation to defending Kimmage. If anyone is using hyperbole, it's you coming to that very conclusion of Cookson not anti-doping because of this.
I accused him of being not anti doping because he has done nothing to combat doping.

gooner said:
The UCI's name is off it due to Cookson. This is now solely about Hein taking action against Kimmage for his opinions on Hein's rein. The CIRC is tackling this about him and McQuaid as we speak.

Patience Benotti, lets see the outcome. Much of it could be of help to Kimmage in the end.
Cookson could also do more. He has had a year.
 
May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
I'm not sure where you are going here.

I'm not really sure what the point of the CIRC is because the UCI answers to no one and has no interest in damaging it's brand in the name of a public confession in the form of a released CIRC report.

An analogy I made in another thread where this topic came up. The UNC athlete degree scandal finally breaks and the report makes the problem out to be two people. Both of whom have left. Two people running a fraudulent degree/class scheme in a giant university. Right. The CIRC report will likely be similar.
Yep, this. CIRC will point to those no longer in the sport as the problem.
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
Over-turning 100 years of deeply embedded culture looks easy from the sofa don't it

Mark L
Where did i say he should've overturned 100 years?

He has done little and the CIRC will not change an iota of that 100 years of deeply embedded culture.

Glad to see you admit that 100 years of deeply embedded culture is still there....

My sofa is vey comfortable.
 
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