Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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Re: Re:

sniper said:
D-Queued said:
I thought we had confirmed that David Millar is an idiot?

Dave.
indeed he is. but why would he lie about the Zorzoli-Gianetti friendship?
please don't go down that "he lied before so he's probably lying again" road.
that's so 2010.
you wanna change it into "he's an idiot so don't trust whatever he's saying about doping"?
Just doesn't cut it.
Why didn't David talk to CIRC, even if by Skype?

Dave.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

D-Queued said:
Why didn't David talk to CIRC, even if by Skype?

Dave.
because he didn't want to talk, i guess.
but how's that relevant to his assertion re Gianetti/Zorzoli?
what reason is there to doubt that assertion?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re:

Joelsim said:
Well hi too. No I haven't read all 72 pages and I'm not trolling. I simply say that Cookson has commissioned this report and so don't judge him until he acts/doesn't act on it.

He has several choices.

1) Fire off the hip
2) Put the rules in place and act
3) Put the rules in places and not act
4) Not act
5) Be Verbruggen
Could you please reconcile this procedure with his comments on the women's team's cycling kit?

Or the publishing (or not) of ADR violations?
 
May 26, 2010
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CIRC: “riders who dope now organise their own doping programmes with the help of third parties who are primarily outside the cycling team”

What bollix! Ferrari never stopped working, neither did Leinders, Fuentes, or Ibauguren. These Doctors are specialised in assiting riders dope. Why would teams bother with them if teams were clean?
 
DirtyWorks said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/multi-million-euro-losses-reported-for-ponferrada-world-championships

Surprising no one, cycling is a terrible public investment. This is the federation's business model. Raid those public funds!!!

I'm taking bets on losses at Richmond. I'll start at 5 million USD.
Update on Richmond
http://www.richmond.com/richmond-2015/a ... 48abc.html

The nine-day event is expected to attract 450,000 on-site spectators and a worldwide television audience of about 300 million.

Haha 300 million viewers. They are off by 295 million.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

DirtyWorks said:
It's a 1.1 class race where they had better be absolutely tearing it up or the classics will not go well at all.

Are they doping? Yeah, probably.
Yes a 1.1 but they were not the only WT team there.

Lotto and LottoJumbo were there.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
DirtyWorks said:
It's a 1.1 class race where they had better be absolutely tearing it up or the classics will not go well at all.

Are they doping? Yeah, probably.
Yes a 1.1 but they were not the only WT team there.

Lotto and LottoJumbo were there.
And how great did Lotto and LottoJumbo do at Het Niewsblad?

Will we see them in the top-5 at the classics? Probably not.

And yes, Patrick has to have special access at the UCI. There's just no other explanation for the decades of results.
 
May 26, 2010
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Mario Zorzoli, head of @UCI_cycling medical commission, cleared of all charges.

So Cookson showing his promises to "restore cycling's credibility and end 'behind closed doors' culture", Cookson 2013.

Cookson aint interested in cleaning the sport, he is only interest in giving a clean perception of the sport.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Lon Schattenberg gets thrown under the bus by the CIRC report with much less evidence (if any) against him than against Zorzoli.
http://inrng.com/2015/03/the-circ-report/
The worst stuff Schattenberg is accused of in the report -- warning riders about suspect values and new tests -- is the exact same stuff Zorzoli is rumored to have done on multiple occasions.

And we have more on Zorzoli via Rasmussen/Leinders.
But the CIRC didn't even talk to Rasmussen let alone Leinders, so what exactly did their investigation into the allegations mount to?
 
Re:

sniper said:
Lon Schattenberg gets thrown under the bus by the CIRC report with much less evidence (if any) against him than against Zorzoli.
http://inrng.com/2015/03/the-circ-report/
The worst stuff Schattenberg is accused of in the report -- warning riders about suspect values and new tests -- is the exact same stuff Zorzoli is rumored to have done on multiple occasions.

And we have more on Zorzoli via Rasmussen/Leinders.
But the CIRC didn't even talk to Rasmussen let alone Leinders, so what exactly did their investigation into the allegations mount to?
I read the same thing. Thar's why I believe the report's primary purpose was to shame Verbruggen out of the UCI and attack others someone with authority over the report doesn't like. For example, Makarov's efforts to fire someone on the ethics commission wasn't mentioned.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

DirtyWorks said:
sniper said:
Lon Schattenberg gets thrown under the bus by the CIRC report with much less evidence (if any) against him than against Zorzoli.
http://inrng.com/2015/03/the-circ-report/
The worst stuff Schattenberg is accused of in the report -- warning riders about suspect values and new tests -- is the exact same stuff Zorzoli is rumored to have done on multiple occasions.

And we have more on Zorzoli via Rasmussen/Leinders.
But the CIRC didn't even talk to Rasmussen let alone Leinders, so what exactly did their investigation into the allegations mount to?
I read the same thing. Thar's why I believe the report's primary purpose was to shame Verbruggen out of the UCI and attack others someone with authority over the report doesn't like. For example, Makarov's efforts to fire someone on the ethics commission wasn't mentioned.
good point.

verbiest, schattenberg, verbruggen, the 'dutch connection'. (although verbiest i think is belgian)


on a slightly different note, who was that UCI guy again whom Cookson fired (or told to go away) shortly after becoming president? I think it was also a Dutch guy, but not schattenberg.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

BroDeal said:
"If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change." -- Giuseppe di Lampedusa

I think that was also Crookson's pitch to the insiders when he urged them to get rid of McQuaid.
worth reposting
 
Oct 16, 2010
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also interesting to recall (per Dirtyworks' earlier postings) that Rigozzi, Contador's lawyer in the Clen-case, was chosen by Cookson to replace Verbiest.
So Cookson replaced one dopers-lawyer with the other.
Then Rigozzi gets to chose the members of the 'independent' CIRC panel.

Saugy, Zorzoli, Rigozzi.
Cookson likes his Swiss.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re:

sniper said:
also interesting to recall (per Dirtyworks' earlier postings) that Rigozzi, Contador's lawyer in the Clen-case, was chosen by Cookson to replace Verbiest.
So Cookson replaced one dopers-lawyer with the other.
Then Rigozzi gets to chose the members of the 'independent' CIRC panel.

Saugy, Zorzoli, Rigozzi.
Cookson likes his Swiss.

It really stinks doesn't it. These people are more suited to the mafia than sport.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
sniper said:
also interesting to recall (per Dirtyworks' earlier postings) that Rigozzi, Contador's lawyer in the Clen-case, was chosen by Cookson to replace Verbiest.
So Cookson replaced one dopers-lawyer with the other.
Then Rigozzi gets to chose the members of the 'independent' CIRC panel.

Saugy, Zorzoli, Rigozzi.
Cookson likes his Swiss.

It really stinks doesn't it. These people are more suited to the mafia than sport.
Just because Rigozzi was one of AC's lawyers in the clen case, you cannot assume the lawyer is unsympathetic to anti-doping. I am a retired trial lawyer and I have argued loud and long in the Clinic, that AC's clen case should not have resulted in an adverse CAS finding (to much criticism, derision and cynicism). But that is because I see AC's case through the legal lens and not the moral lens.

AC had a lot of good legal arguments to make and that's what lawyers do. They advocate a legal point. That has nothing to do with their personal views on issues such as doping. I defended a slug of murderers but that doesn't mean I am in favour of murder. Lawyers have a moral duty to be frank, candid and honest with the court or the tribunal about the facts and the legitimacy of their legal arguments. But it is not their job to wag their finger at the 10 nanograms or so, of clen in AC's system in the litigation context.

PS - a nanogram is a millionth of a gram. No performance enhancing effect! Not even close. It had absolutely no effect on his performance in winning the TDF. That is the legal argument. De minimus non curat lex!

What lawyers do is argue legal points, not morality. That is for the preachers, religion and Church, not the courtroom. In the courtroom we argue law using law books and not the Bible or the Koran. That is as it should
be.

So it does not mean Rigozzi cannot work for the UCI or cannot do a good job.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Rigozzi is almost guaranteed to do a good job at the UCI given his friendship with Zorzolli.

As for legal stuff, it's pretty simple: the side with the most money wins.
 
Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
Rigozzi is almost guaranteed to do a good job at the UCI given his friendship with Zorzolli.

As for legal stuff, it's pretty simple: the side with the most money wins.

Sorry Wiggo, you have that wrong. There are a lot of really good and successful lawyers who would not fall into the big billing category. Your view is the commonly encountered one from some laypeople: an ill-informed, simplistic and naïve understanding of the profession. (I wanted to use the word ignorant but I was trying to be polite!)
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:

RobbieCanuck said:
Dear Wiggo said:
Rigozzi is almost guaranteed to do a good job at the UCI given his friendship with Zorzolli.

As for legal stuff, it's pretty simple: the side with the most money wins.

Sorry Wiggo, you have that wrong. There are a lot of really good and successful lawyers who would not fall into the big billing category. Your view is the commonly encountered one from some laypeople: an ill-informed, simplistic and naïve understanding of the profession. (I wanted to use the word ignorant but I was trying to be polite!)
Nicely put dishonest argument. Just what I have come to expect. Let's see...
strawman / changing the subject: check
name calling: check
citing irrelevant facts: check
vagueness: check
stereotyping: check
My resume's bigger than yours: check
accusing opponent of being "simplistic": check
mockery: check
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thought this is interesting enough to post here as well:
Francisco Fernández, lawyer and part owner of Caisse d'Epargne, explains in 2010:
"the first thing we do when we're interested in a rider is call Mario Zorzoli, chief of UCI antidoping department, who will then give a green light according to the hematological data he has in front of him."
http://forodeciclismo.mforos.com/30984/ ... n-febrero/
Zorzoli clearly sits on Froome's passport data.
 
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