Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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“While the disease may have also spread amid the massive protests against police brutality, epidemiologists aren’t connecting big outbreaks to the demonstrations.”

Uh-huh. Awful suspicious timing. I guess COVID can tell the difference between righteous and non-righteousnes. Have to laugh at that one..
 
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It is almost like they got burned when they said there were few (or no) asymptomatic cases in their first examination of the China outbreak and they have decided to be as equivocal as possible with their recommendations as they can moving forward. It isn't very helpful.

As to the larger question of the role of the scientists on the task force to speak out, we were told this weekend that 99% of cases are harmless. I can understand they are in a position where they have to pick their battles, but whatever battles they think they have won, their silence has lost 10 others IMO. I struggle to think of a poorer response to this pandemic. They wrote a decent set of guidelines that are universally ignored and have ceded the public arena to people who have vested interests in promoting a 'nothing to see here' mentality. Birx going up on stage in late May with the absolute gift that it was ok to golf should've earned a push to enforce masks or even have them wear masks in public. But apparently it got them nada that I can discern.
 
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The top U.S.Government official saying that the virus is " overblown "" 99% harmless " is stupid on too many levels to list. The idea that protesters \ rally participants \ beach-BBQ attendees don't understand the gravity of citizenship is appalling. The U.S. Surgeon General, when asked medical questions responding w answers void of science,instead the nation's top doctor advising people to interpret the US constitution for behaviors on Covid-19 is insane..completely crazy.
50% of deaths amongst people living in congregate settings,group homes,nursing homes,long term care facilities and still no national mandate for anything,PPE use testing,standards of any kind is a national disgrace and an insult to all Americans,and with extra disdain for the most vulnerable in our society.
this is truly a moment of deep national shame and embarrassment.
 
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The top U.S.Government official saying that the virus is " overblown "" 99% harmless " is stupid on too many levels to list. The idea that protesters \ rally participants \ beach-BBQ attendees don't understand the gravity of citizenship is appalling. The U.S. Surgeon General, when asked medical questions responding w answers void of science,instead the nation's top doctor advising people to interpret the US constitution for behaviors on Covid-19 is insane..completely crazy.
50% of deaths amongst people living in congregate settings,group homes,nursing homes,long term care facilities and still no national mandate for anything,PPE use testing,standards of any kind is a national disgrace and an insult to all Americans,and with extra disdain for the most vulnerable in our society.
this is truly a moment of deep national shame and embarrassment.
I'm sure, at the time, you were equally embarrassed with this nonsense;

“We should always evaluate the risks and benefits of efforts to control the virus,” Jennifer Nuzzo, a Johns Hopkins epidemiologist, tweeted on Tuesday. “In this moment the public health risks of not protesting to demand an end to systemic racism greatly exceed the harms of the virus.”


“The injustice that’s evident to everyone right now needs to be addressed,” Abraar Karan, a Brigham and Women’s Hospital physician who’s exhorted coronavirus experts to amplify the protests' anti-racist message, told me. "While I have voiced concerns that protests risk creating more outbreaks, the status quo wasn’t going to stop #covid19 either," he wrote on Twitter this week.
It’s a message echoed by media outlets and some of the most prominent public health experts in America, like former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Tom Frieden, who loudly warned against efforts to rush reopening but is now supportive of mass protests. Their claim: If we don’t address racial inequality, it’ll be that much harder to fight Covid-19. There’s also evidence that the virus doesn’t spread easily outdoors, especially if people wear masks.
The experts maintain that their messages are consistent—that they were always flexible on Americans going outside, that they want protesters to take precautions and that they're prioritizing public health by demanding an urgent fix to systemic racism.
 
Masks probably won't protect you much from other people who aren't wearing them. They will protect other people from you. That's what Fauci and others missed at the time, they were concerned with giving people advice on how to protect themselves. This is different, it's a way of protecting others.

I have my criticisms of Fauci, he certainly was late in realizing the danger, but so were an awful lot of other people. He was right about HCQ (that the evidence did not warrant people's taking it without a doctor's advice); he appears to have been right about asymptomatics (roughly half of infected people); and he also appears to have been right about the IFR, mortality rate, 0.5 - 1.0%.

Fauci's biggest problem--and this will be inherited by his successor, if one should come anytime soon--is that he can't criticize his clown boss without getting into a lot of trouble. Fauci constantly has to make his points diplomatically, e.g., when Trump said he wanted to open the country by Easter, Fauci said that idea was "aspirational", which is diplo-speak for "insane".
Clown boss? How about clown show with this task force. Lol. Fauci is a fearmonger who seems to enjoy presenting the ominous side of everything. It's amazing how so many people worship this guy. He misinforms and changes his tune so much (his own colleague, Deborah Birx, stated the CDC inflated the death counts by "25%", and that you can't believe anything the CDC states and Fauci says nothing just pretending it was never said). And watch here how he squirms as he gets berated by Rand Paul on the Senate hearings ref the reopening of the schools:

View: https://youtu.be/ZYk3T39Xa4Y


You think wearing masks should be optional? I guess you run red lights and routinely exceed the speed limit, too, right? I mean, anyone can see when the intersection or road is clear ahead, why should we have to submit to what the government tells us to do? Maybe you *** and piss wherever you are, too? Why should we be compelled to find a bathroom in public, after all, the mess we leave behind won't affect us.
Bad comparison - traffic violations are punishable offenses that have been determined by the Legislative process. Too many violations or violating more serious offenses (DUI, Hit & Run, Reckless driving, etc) can result in a loss of license or even jail time.

And yes, I do think masks should be optional as something that technically can't be mandated by the government.

Judge Andrew Napolitano, Professor of Law & former NJ Superior Court Judge, gave a brief overview of the legality of the mask mandates by some of the states. If a person is proven contagious then yes - the government has every right to mandate a mask or even forced quarantine. Other than that, a mask could only be mandated on Federal or State property:


The people that are most vulnerable; the elderly and particularly the ones with multiple medical-conditions (hypertension, diabetes, chronic lung diseases, heart disease, obesity) who are pharmaceutical dependent should be wearing masks! Or just stay at home at all costs. These are overwhelming the people who are getting sick and needing hospitalization, and dying -- you know the very high percentages involving this selected group. The stats clearly spell that out no matter what country you examine.

And many of these people were in & out of hospitals/urgent care centers for complications from their conditions in the months and years proceeding this pandemic. They have serious pathologies and NEED TO STAY AT HOME. Nursing homes, which have very sickly people with immune systems ill-equipped to fight off any viral or bacterial infections, should have been completely lockdown from day one (and who's the idiot that sent infected COVID patients to the nursing homes that caused a significant number of deaths in NY - something like 43% of all deaths in NY occurred in nursing homes?!?).

Bad news for older people like me: a vaccine may not have that much effect for us. That would mean we depend on younger people getting vaccinated, and these polls showing large percentages of people won't take the vaccine doesn't give me much comfort. I'm really beginning to think I may have to stay in lockdown for the rest of my life.

https://onezero.medium.com/the-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-work-on-the-elderly-3fc176f75751
I don't think you're much older than me...are you? (59). I don't worry about it because there are things a person can do to strengthen their immune system. And there are cases of many older people over 55 who tested positive for the virus but yet were either asymptomatic or experienced very mild symptoms (e.g., Rand Paul, George Stephanopoulos, Sean Payton, Madonna, etc.). The problem is so many Americans have been fearmongered into believing that there's nothing they can do to personally reduce their risk of getting sick (dietary changes, excercise, supplementation, etc). And these are the nation's health experts that seem to know nothing about some simple things people can do. It's all fearmongering 24/7 and people then demand protection from government starting the blame game if they get infected (blaming the young people of course). But fearmongering improves the ratings of these networks & media outlets - so it's going to continue.

Excercise, healthy diet and vitamin D can do wonders for the immune system...this isn't groundbreaking but our illustrious health experts seem clueless!


 
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I'm sure, at the time, you were equally embarrassed with this nonsense;

“We should always evaluate the risks and benefits of efforts to control the virus,” Jennifer Nuzzo, a Johns Hopkins epidemiologist, tweeted on Tuesday. “In this moment the public health risks of not protesting to demand an end to systemic racism greatly exceed the harms of the virus.”


“The injustice that’s evident to everyone right now needs to be addressed,” Abraar Karan, a Brigham and Women’s Hospital physician who’s exhorted coronavirus experts to amplify the protests' anti-racist message, told me. "While I have voiced concerns that protests risk creating more outbreaks, the status quo wasn’t going to stop #covid19 either," he wrote on Twitter this week.
It’s a message echoed by media outlets and some of the most prominent public health experts in America, like former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Tom Frieden, who loudly warned against efforts to rush reopening but is now supportive of mass protests. Their claim: If we don’t address racial inequality, it’ll be that much harder to fight Covid-19. There’s also evidence that the virus doesn’t spread easily outdoors, especially if people wear masks.
The experts maintain that their messages are consistent—that they were always flexible on Americans going outside, that they want protesters to take precautions and that they're prioritizing public health by demanding an urgent fix to systemic racism.
are any of these people top leaders in the US government? Top executives in American government? Hardly see the parity of opinion. For the top person in the executive branch of U.S. Government says something that is scientifically completely false is dangerous. The reduction in testing,take your pick deadly \dangerous pick an order. No matter where you look the health care system is under possible fatal strain. The economy has many components that are interconnected to health care,so the interruption o or complete loss of employment is a medical issue as millions of Americans get healthcare as part of their job,as do the families of the employees.
And housing will also certainly become a health issue as millions are in a state of instability. Before Covid-19 there are many studies that suggest that @12+ years in the reduction in life expectancy in homeless men over 40 years old. So it's stands to reason that by purposefully disruption of the economy is dangerous. Many U U.S. children get a number of critical services through school and daycare,many get vital meals and for some exposure to a school nurse is a majority of their health care. All apparent reasoning to establish testing and standards nationally for K-12 education. If teacher and staff health are to be determined on a local basis,that of course would be significantly flawed on levels too deep for reasonable debate. Teachers,principals,coaches and custodians should not be determining health standards in schools on mass..
To use or not to use PPE in nursing homes and schools should not be done by an honor system and should not be left to the discretion of local officials.
These and many other life and death decisions should be made on fact based science,not religious,political or constitutional interpretations.
That would be stupid.
And as far as racism goes that also is statically clear..health outcomes are race dependent,w blacks having the worst overall results across the board..pre and active pandemic. And as mentioned,the economy is a health care issue because of employer provided insurance. Blacks for a variety of reasons do not participate in the economy at the same rate of other groups..ie as a result are uninsured at a higher rate. Blacks have poor performing schools as compared to others, certainly another factor in economy participation, the correlation is part of American history and life.
and also the racial make up of "essential workers" is also clear and their incomes,education and level of insurance,all have racial components that impact public health across the country.
 
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As I wrote before I hate to wear the masks - and my son even more so - but really it's not such a big thing in most cases. You put it on, put it off as soon as you can, done.
It's a question of how far is the state allowed to stipulate, how big is the right of the individual for you Americans, right?
To me that looks a little bit ridiculous. I know politics is often about symbols, but if you look at it in a pragamatic way, you are supposed to wear a mask while shopping and stuff.
There are other threats to freedom in this world, aren't there?

2nd: I still get a bit mad if people make health all about personal choices and exercise. It helps statistically, but it does not work as a simple equation: healthy lifestyle = health.
 
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Nomad— you’re completing de what has been an informative discussion with politics and non-science. As soon as you used the word “fearmongering” You politicized this and turned your post into a personal rant rather than information -sharing discussion. Of course, that fairly normal on this forum, but I find it sad here.

Even if I mute your comments it still derails the discussion, which may, of course, be your objective.
 
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are any of these people top leaders in the US government? Top executives in American government? Hardly see the parity of opinion. For the top person in the executive branch of U.S. Government says something that is scientifically completely false is dangerous. The reduction in testing,take your pick deadly \dangerous pick an order. No matter where you look the health care system is under possible fatal strain. The economy has many components that are interconnected to health care,so the interruption o or complete loss of employment is a medical issue as millions of Americans get healthcare as part of their job,as do the families of the employees.
And housing will also certainly become a health issue as millions are in a state of instability. Before Covid-19 there are many studies that suggest that @12+ years in the reduction in life expectancy in homeless men over 40 years old. So it's stands to reason that by purposefully disruption of the economy is dangerous. Many U U.S. children get a number of critical services through school and daycare,many get vital meals and for some exposure to a school nurse is a majority of their health care. All apparent reasoning to establish testing and standards nationally for K-12 education. If teacher and staff health are to be determined on a local basis,that of course would be significantly flawed on levels too deep for reasonable debate. Teachers,principals,coaches and custodians should not be determining health standards in schools on mass..
To use or not to use PPE in nursing homes and schools should not be done by an honor system and should not be left to the discretion of local officials.
These and many other life and death decisions should be made on fact based science,not religious,political or constitutional interpretations.
That would be stupid.
And as far as racism goes that also is statically clear..health outcomes are race dependent,w blacks having the worst overall results across the board..pre and active pandemic. And as mentioned,the economy is a health care issue because of employer provided insurance. Blacks for a variety of reasons do not participate in the economy at the same rate of other groups..ie as a result are uninsured at a higher rate. Blacks have poor performing schools as compared to others, certainly another factor in economy participation, the correlation is part of American history and life.
and also the racial make up of "essential workers" is also clear and their incomes,education and level of insurance,all have racial components that impact public health across the country.
COVID is racist I guess.

Look, nobody should have been encouraged to get out and protest least of all by woke epidemiologists. Time & Place... surely not in the middle of a pandemic, particularly for ethnicity's most at risk. Any wonder more than half of the new cases are in the 17-34 age range??

Nary a word about that. Nooooo.
 
Covid is international and doesn't have race relations..period. As we are seeing on the Southern border. US officials treating places like San Diego,El Centro,Brawley as the area is the US population alone..San Diego..@1.4 million but if you formulate a strategy based on that instead of the combined population of Tijuana..@1.7 million your numbers are going to be off by more than @50%. Same in the Imperial Valley..any number that doesn't include Mexicali is going to be flawed by 1 million plus..
why would the US use North Korean pandemic policy? I will leave it at..puzzling.
Then you have the data accumulated by others and not used by the US.. China,Korea,all of Europe no matter if you pick a specific country's policy for pandemic response..any or all are superior..mathematically fantastic compared to the United States..period.
Another strange cultural cross over..local officials are not always educated,capable of formulation and execution of a pandemic plan. Few could amass the data and probably would not know what to do with it once it was available.
Profile the typical local leader I am talking about..county is probably not very important. The mayor is running at red line w issues that tax their ability,swing set repair in parks, who is going to chalk line the ball fields for the weekends games..livestock lose on the roadways..ect..small town stuff..ok..superimpose that over a tiny town in Italy,Iowa or Indonesia..anywhere you want.
No other federal government would expect that local man or woman governing the town to be versed or proficient in pandemic anything..period.
No federal government medical center would count on the effectiveness of a tiny town government officials.
And for the record..US government described the Covid-19 epidemic as war..we are at war with the virus..
Who asks individual municipalities to produce or procure their own tanks and aircraft carriers a couple of weeks into a world war?
I am all about old school sure,but what national leader tells 100s of thousands of individual American towns to enlist a local army?
And and this for the few of the diehards here..
What leader goes to war and plays golf 5 times in the first 3 months of the war..if you want to answer I will gladly put on a pamper for my reaction.

And as critical as an one thing..interconnected..who is sick? Once identified,get them isolated and begin treatment. So to say that @40+ million tests have taken place..cool..to use other countries as a reference point? Stupid..the only testing numbers that matter for the US are tests done in the US..how many tests America did compared with Denmark or S Korea has zero relevance..and we need to be able to test huge numbers of the population weekly if not daily..test number 22 of the 40 million that was done 3 months ago is again irrelevant.
Until we have a plan..a strategy we will just flounder..whack a mole is immoral using human beings..especially the old and weakest amongst us.
The U.S. Official information being given to us and the world is inaccurate and false,the numbers on American dead and hospitalization prove it.
We don't need debate @6 months into this..we have the only first world leadership that is still debating if a virus,a problem,a pandemic exists..
Does Santa Claus or the tooth fairy work in the US government?
 
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Covid is international and doesn't have race relations..period. As we are seeing on the Southern border. US officials treating places like San Diego,El Centro,Brawley as the area is the US population alone..San Diego..@1.4 million but if you formulate a strategy based on that instead of the combined population of Tijuana..@1.7 million your numbers are going to be off by more than @50%. Same in the Imperial Valley..any number that doesn't include Mexicali is going to be flawed by 1 million plus..
why would the US use North Korean pandemic policy? I will leave it at..puzzling.
Then you have the data accumulated by others and not used by the US.. China,Korea,all of Europe no matter if you pick a specific country's policy for pandemic response..any or all are superior..mathematically fantastic compared to the United States..period.
Another strange cultural cross over..local officials are not always educated,capable of formulation and execution of a pandemic plan. Few could amass the data and probably would not know what to do with it once it was available.
Profile the typical local leader I am talking about..county is probably not very important. The mayor is running at red line w issues that tax their ability,swing set repair in parks, who is going to chalk line the ball fields for the weekends games..livestock lose on the roadways..ect..small town stuff..ok..superimpose that over a tiny town in Italy,Iowa or Indonesia..anywhere you want.
No other federal government would expect that local man or woman governing the town to be versed or proficient in pandemic anything..period.
No federal government medical center would count on the effectiveness of a tiny town government officials.
And for the record..US government described the Covid-19 epidemic as war..we are at war with the virus..
Who asks individual municipalities to produce or procure their own tanks and aircraft carriers a couple of weeks into a world war?
I am all about old school sure,but what national leader tells 100s of thousands of individual American towns to enlist a local army?
And and this for the few of the diehards here..
What leader goes to war and plays golf 5 times in the first 3 months of the war..if you want to answer I will gladly put on a pamper for my reaction.

And as critical as an one thing..interconnected..who is sick? Once identified,get them isolated and begin treatment. So to say that @40+ million tests have taken place..cool..to use other countries as a reference point? Stupid..the only testing numbers that matter for the US are tests done in the US..how many tests America did compared with Denmark or S Korea has zero relevance..and we need to be able to test huge numbers of the population weekly if not daily..test number 22 of the 40 million that was done 3 months ago is again irrelevant.
Until we have a plan..a strategy we will just flounder..whack a mole is immoral using human beings..especially the old and weakest amongst us.
The U.S. Official information being given to us and the world is inaccurate and false,the numbers on American dead and hospitalization prove it.
We don't need debate @6 months into this..we have the only first world leadership that is still debating if a virus,a problem,a pandemic exists..
Does Santa Claus or the tooth fairy work in the US government?
In many of the small towns around here people get elected in tight races: 23- 20, 54-38. 23 people (mostly relatives and friends) voted for a person who just barely made it out of HS and has spent the last few years trying to make ends meet as a local (not so) handyman, but now they are the mayor. As you pointed out, what tools do they have to deal with an epidemic. Plus, can you imagine the peer pressure?!

In one small town (~600 people) just north of here the school secretary was elected as mayor mostly because she was the only one who could actually 'do the books'. If I remember correctly she won with 18 votes, but it could have been that she won by 18 votes (or maybe both).
 
Um, Los Angeles.

So the beach closings are a good idea but protest all you want? Is that what you are going to run with?
Chris,my bad for not highlighting my own post. I do think that unprotected,mass protests are a horrible idea no matter what the official title is..as we have seen in the streets of the world and at Mt Rushmore,a mega church in Phoenix or the National Mall..and not innocently the beaches in San Diego.
All our bad uses of public energy..speedballing of sorts but instead of cocaine and heroin..it's people locked up at home while at the other end of the spectrum people plugging in their phone charger to get those last few teaspoons of self indulgence from one last Tinder hookup at the club where they are partying shirtless..
But the only thing that is really important is a plan, a strategy,leadership,direction. You look to be selectively missing that part.
When you are at war and your commander is indisposed on the golf course, that erodes moral among your troops, both officers and enlisted and support staff.
Watch the comments of the Top people in U.S. Government..there your question is answered and answered,clearly without hesitation, gathering in mass groups of unknowns,without previous testing,masks or social distancing is OK if it meets the objectives of the top U.S. Executive and for all others it's bad and irresponsible.
Hear me clear and loud as a U.S. Military veteran..if during a battle my commander saw a death count of @130,000+ casualties and left his post..without giving an order, to play golf..
You should probably just watch the Caine Mutiny to get a dramatic watered down version of the response..
We have more people being hospitalized than at any time since the Covid crisis began..our commander is talking about NASCAR and Confederate statues..
I am not making this up..the Americans who are dead,dying and suffering are not actors or paid political shills..no somebody's family
 
Outdoor masked activities are likely to be relatively safe for transmission.
Outdoors unmasked activities are relatively safe too. Maintaining social distancing is the best way to minimise transmission. In Australia we basically controlled the virus without telling every citizen to compulsorily wear masks in public. The elderly mostly do as do many people of Chinese descent.

With recent decline in community transmission I notice even in Chinese frequented suburbs on the weekend I noticed many not wearing masks when during our lockdown it was close to 100%.

Even during our lockdowns there was no restriction of outdoors exercise including riding our bikes. The Australia virus case counts plummeted without asking everyone to wear masks outside. The case count has recently spiked in one Australian state - Victoria. But this is related to an unprotected mass BLM protest and state government bungling including using untrained security guards to oversee crowded public housing apartments which in effect became covid incubators. Wearing masks is definitely beneficial but it is also a very minor measure in terms of overall effectiveness. I think other measures are far more effective.
 
Bad comparison - traffic violations are punishable offenses that have been determined by the Legislative process.
.

That's dodging the issue. In the first place, the legislative process is not applicable to a temporary national emergency. It's too slow, and the law would have to be repealed later. Executive orders are the way to go, and people have been disobeying them.

In the second place, if a law were passed, many opposed to the law would continue not to wear masks. People have no problem breaking laws when they find it self-serving. Look at the millions of idiots shooting off fireworks in their backyards on July 4.

The people that are most vulnerable; the elderly and particularly the ones with multiple medical-conditions (hypertension, diabetes, chronic lung diseases, heart disease, obesity) who are pharmaceutical dependent should be wearing masks!
Uh, no, you still don't get it. Masks don't protect the wearer. They protect other people from the wearer.

I don't think you're much older than me...are you? (59).
I could be your father,

And there are cases of many older people over 55 who tested positive for the virus but yet were either asymptomatic or experienced very mild symptoms (e.g., Rand Paul, George Stephanopoulos, Sean Payton, Madonna, etc.).
Ask BoJo how much he enjoyed the ICU. Or Cameron van den Burgh, 32 year old former Olympic Gold Medal winner in swimming. Or Ryan Padgett, 40 something former college football player. Li Wenliang, the Chinese whistle blower was in his early 30s, apparently in fine health, and died.

Sure, there are lots of older people who have had mild or no symptoms. The odds seem to be strongly in my favor if I should get infected. I just prefer not to play roulette with my life.

Excercise, healthy diet and vitamin D can do wonders for the immune system...this isn't groundbreaking but our illustrious health experts seem clueless!
We really don't know how much is due to health, and how much to genetics. There's also evidence that many people may have some T-cell mediated immunity to the virus. That isn't necessarily a function of health. At this point, it's a total crapshoot how someone responds to infection.

Look, nobody should have been encouraged to get out and protest least of all by woke epidemiologists. Time & Place... surely not in the middle of a pandemic, particularly for ethnicity's most at risk. Any wonder more than half of the new cases are in the 17-34 age range??
I mostly agree with this. But at least the protestors were outdoors, and most of them wore masks and made some effort to socially distance (unlike the people at Trump rallies, e.g.). The locations of the recent spikes in cases do not correlate with the locations of many of the largest protests.

What good is a plan if we pretend it's ok to gather in gigantic crowds for race awareness then lie to everybody about the consequences? Do you think people don't see through the charade?
Sure, but you could flip it around and say that one reason the protestors rationalized their actions is that they saw other people were gathering in large groups just for personal pleasure. If there had been strict enforcement throughout, there would have been a stronger public pushback against the protests.

So the beach closings are a good idea but protest all you want? Is that what you are going to run with?
I don't understand the beach closings. This is outdoors, it's easy enough to social distance, and in a very large open space by the ocean, you expect a wind or breeze that will disperse the virus. If people can picnic in the park, they ought to be able to manage a day at the beach. Bars seem to be one of the biggest problems.
 
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Outdoors unmasked activities are relatively safe too. Maintaining social distancing is the best way to minimise transmission. In Australia we basically controlled the virus without telling every citizen to compulsorily wear masks in public. The elderly mostly do as do many people of Chinese descent.

With recent decline in community transmission I notice even in Chinese frequented suburbs on the weekend I noticed many not wearing masks when during our lockdown it was close to 100%.

Even during our lockdowns there was no restriction of outdoors exercise including riding our bikes. The Australia virus case counts plummeted without asking everyone to wear masks outside. The case count has recently spiked in one Australian state - Victoria. But this is related to an unprotected mass BLM protest and state government bungling including using untrained security guards to oversee crowded public housing apartments which in effect became covid incubators. Wearing masks is definitely beneficial but it is also a very minor measure in terms of overall effectiveness. I think other measures are far more effective.
You guys did a very good job overall and should reap the rewards moving forward. You also handled the cruise ships very humanely even if it inflated your numbers.

Masks are most beneficial where social distancing is not always possible like on the train or in a workplace. I can't perform all my duties from home. I have no issues wearing my mask as mandated by my employer when I am in their building. Speaking of workplace policy. Nonessential Travel is still not recommended, but now people who leave the state must get tested before returning to work. It will ruffle the feathers of those with shore homes in Delaware.
 
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Outdoors unmasked activities are relatively safe too. Maintaining social distancing is the best way to minimise transmission. In Australia we basically controlled the virus without telling every citizen to compulsorily wear masks in public. The elderly mostly do as do many people of Chinese descent.

With recent decline in community transmission I notice even in Chinese frequented suburbs on the weekend I noticed many not wearing masks when during our lockdown it was close to 100%.

Even during our lockdowns there was no restriction of outdoors exercise including riding our bikes. The Australia virus case counts plummeted without asking everyone to wear masks outside. The case count has recently spiked in one Australian state - Victoria. But this is related to an unprotected mass BLM protest and state government bungling including using untrained security guards to oversee crowded public housing apartments which in effect became covid incubators. Wearing masks is definitely beneficial but it is also a very minor measure in terms of overall effectiveness. I think other measures are far more effective.
Ths spike in Victorians had no relationship to the BLM march - Stop spreading untruths - Three people tested positive shortly after the march which were cases already in the community.
 
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Ths spike in Victorians had no relationship to the BLM march - Stop spreading untruths - Three people tested positive shortly after the march which were cases already in the community.
Well the quarantine bungles won't help but with the daily numbers being what they are, tracing is not going to get any easier. Group protests just add to the social distancing issues but it seems at the moment the majority of infections are still returning travellers thankfully in quarantine. Victoria seems to be the outlier for community transmission at the moment.
 
Well the quarantine bungles won't help but with the daily numbers being what they are, tracing is not going to get any easier. Group protests just add to the social distancing issues but it seems at the moment the majority of infections are still returning travellers thankfully in quarantine. Victoria seems to be the outlier for community transmission at the moment.
In Victoria we are going into semi lockdown (well, in Melbourne and it's outer suburbia) again this week, for six weeks, so we should get on top of it. For the amount of testing that we are doing (a lot), 191 new covid 19 cases in a day isn't too bad (especially considering that 191 DEATHS in a day is standard in many places in the world).
 
Reactions: yaco
Well the quarantine bungles won't help but with the daily numbers being what they are, tracing is not going to get any easier. Group protests just add to the social distancing issues but it seems at the moment the majority of infections are still returning travellers thankfully in quarantine. Victoria seems to be the outlier for community transmission at the moment.
The majority of infections in Victoria are currently community transmissions which probably stems from leaks in the quarantining of returning overseas travellers - There has been no proven link to the BSM protests.
 
In Victoria we are going into semi lockdown (well, in Melbourne and it's outer suburbia) again this week, for six weeks, so we should get on top of it. For the amount of testing that we are doing (a lot), 191 new covid 19 cases in a day isn't too bad (especially considering that 191 DEATHS in a day is standard in many places in the world).
This is a very difficult virus to contain - Suddenly Hong Kong has come up with 13 local infections in the last few days after 22 days of no transmission - The problem with this virus is so many are asymptomatic so will never be tested, spread to it others who are probably asymptomatic and it's only noticed when someone becomes ill and then tests positive.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY