Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[jmdirt]

You are looking at this as a scientist. Your view on the legitimacy of the science is irrelevant because it is far removed from the common experience. The man on the street is not reading peer reviewed publications then forming his options based on those. He is getting his information filtered through a media that has proven it cannot be trusted. The media will use whatever sources align with its agenda. By the time a consensus emerges, battle lines have been drawn and there is no walking back.

The situation we have with covid-19 is a natural result of the media's destruction of its own credibility. It should not be surprising the populace is warring over what to an objective outsider would seem to be easily determined truths. This does not bode well for the future; if during a pandemic people cannot agree on important facts then what hope is there during regular times for evaluating facts needed for basic political decisions. We are so F-ed.

That's too sweeping IMO. I've gotten my Covid info from the PBS News hour which has proven to be a trustworthy and accurate source. I also seek out other sources like Dr. Osterholm and other infectious disease experts, and sprinkle in a few public forum type sources (which sometimes have direct information or lead me to the information (including scientific articles)). Certainly not all media can be trusted, but IMO most of the 'confusion' has nothing to do with trust.

You seem to be saying that refusal to wear a mask is the media's fault.

And yes I agree, we are F-ed.

 

[dusty red roads]

Some covid long-haulers are losing teeth:

Their teeth fell out. Was it another COVID-19 consequence?

Some coronavirus survivors have described teeth falling out, as well as sensitive gums and teeth turning grey or chipping.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Merckx index]

The media will use whatever sources align with its agenda.

I can’t deny this as a general statement, but the key issue is, what is their agenda? The liberal media emphasize the importance of wearing masks. What is the agenda that they’re pushing? It’s not governmental control of citizens, as many in the conservative press claim. If that were the case, they would have opposed Fauci back in the spring, when he initially advised people not to wear masks. If wearing masks is a way to bring citizens increasingly under governmental control, why did it take the liberal media so long to get on board with the idea?

The liberal media have been highly critical of unproven treatments, like HCQ. What’s the agenda? That they want the virus to continue spreading and killing people? Seriously? The media have not been as critical of other treatments, such as certain steroids, and monoclonal antibodies. Doesn’t this prove that they have no agenda, other than echoing what the scientists are telling them?

The liberal media also emphasize the seriousness of high case rates, though the overall mortality rate is quite low. What is their agenda here? Is it governmental control, through closing businesses and schools, imposing curfews, limiting social gatherings, and so on? Then why do these media support targeted openings, of certain types of institutions, in certain areas of the country? Why do they constantly emphasize that in areas where the virus is not spreading rapidly, opening up is possible? Doesn’t that tend to reward local governments and communities, which conservatives ought to favor? The media have been pushing for uniform standards for opening schools, but they have also used those standards to justify distinguishing between areas that are ready to open, and those that aren’t.

Speaking of schools, the liberal media tend to promote closing of schools, though as I just noted, hardly in a monolithic manner. But how is this furthering their agenda? I thought it was conservatives who favored home schooling and private education. Doesn’t closing schools make that more possible?

What about vaccines? Both the liberal and conservative media hail the development of vaccines, and notice that when the first results of phase 3 trials were announced, no media challenged the results, or said other vaccines would probably do better or worse. Why are the liberal media just as anxious as everyone else to see vaccines come into use? Once most people have been vaccinated, there will be no more need for masks, no more need for closing the economy, no more need for social restrictions. How is promoting vaccines helping the liberal agenda? Or are the liberal media only welcoming vaccines, because it’s a way to inject everyone with a chip that will allow the government to control them?

So what is this agenda that the liberal media are pushing? Yes, they have an agenda, and yes, it tends towards more governmental control. But I fail to see how what they are actually reporting on, and advocating for, in the pandemic, is going to promote that agenda. In the short run, many of the things they are advocating are consistent with greater governmental control. But a pandemic is a war, and everyone pretty much agrees that when at war, the government needs to play a major role. When the war ends, a lot of these measures will be gone.

 

[Merckx index]

There have been three waves. The first one, in late March and early April, peaked after just three weeks; that is, the number of cases each week was higher than the previous week’s number for only this period of time. The growth was not exponential. Even while case numbers were increasing, they increased by less from week to week. As I said before, I think the brakes were put on this surge almost from the beginning. Before it began, everyone was living more or less normally. After it started, many people began changing their lives, social distancing, washing their hands, maybe going to crowded places less often. During this period, everyone in America was introduced to pandemic behavior, even if not everyone followed it.

The second wave, in June and July, lasted for six weeks, but except for the first week, there was again no exponential growth. Each week’s case number was higher than the previous week’s, but the % increase was lower than previously. However, the deviation from exponentiality was much less than in April. By this time, most people had begun practicing social distancing, and masks were much more common. There was less that people could do, or were willing to do, than had been the case before. Also, the median age of those tested was much lower than in April, and I think these younger, less-at-risk people were more resistant to changing their behavior much. So there was less of a braking effect on the spread than had been the case in April.

The third, current wave, as I noted before, exhibits classic exponential growth, in which the % increase in cases each week is as high as, or higher than, the week before. There have been six straight weeks like this. There appears to have been some drop-off in the seventh week, though the growth in cases was still greater than in any previous week except the immediately preceding one. We are now concluding the eighth week, and the % increase over the previous week is now markedly lower, though the number of cases for the week is still higher than the number the week before.

Again, referring to what I posted before, my interpretation of this is that we’re mostly saturated with respect to the behavior we can, or are willing to, manifest. Polls indicate that most people are wearing masks—outside the home. Those who aren’t, probably aren’t going to change, and most people don’t wear masks inside the home. There are also limited options for reducing social gatherings, short of a total lockdown, which almost certainly is going to happen.

Still, the recent signs of possibly peaking suggests that the blanket media coverage is having an effect. If the case numbers peak and decline, this must be because some people are doing things they weren’t doing before. Maybe more people are wearing masks at home. Maybe more people, irrespective of local laws, are taking it on themselves to avoid going out more.

 

[Cannavaro]

Speaking of schools, the liberal media tend to promote closing of schools, though as I just noted, hardly in a monolithic manner. But how is this furthering their agenda? I thought it was conservatives who favored home schooling and private education. Doesn’t closing schools make that more possible?

I would guess that some journalists would have been more favorable for keeping the schools open if it would have been promoted by say Barack Obama in his usual reasonable fashion. I could imagine that some journalists are a little sceptical of some politicians and therefore not as neutral and objective as it would be in a perfect world. I do not want to blame any journalist or politician. It is just natural to value opinions from people who agree more often with me higher than from people with whom I generally disagree.

 

[movingtarget]

'A precarious point': Covid cases surge in Canada's Prairies after relaxed approach

Infections rising in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, exposing failures in strategy and accusations that officials squandered valuable planning opportunities

www.theguardian.com

 

[Nomad]

What about vaccines? Both the liberal and conservative media hail the development of vaccines, and notice that when the first results of phase 3 trials were announced, no media challenged the results, or said other vaccines would probably do better or worse. Why are the liberal media just as anxious as everyone else to see vaccines come into use? Once most people have been vaccinated, there will be no more need for masks, no more need for closing the economy, no more need for social restrictions. How is promoting vaccines helping the liberal agenda? Or are the liberal media only welcoming vaccines, because it’s a way to inject everyone with a chip that will allow the government to control them?

The vaccines are being pushed by "Big Pharma" which incidentally has a lot of control over the mainstream media though major advertising dollars, as well as being the biggest lobbyist in Congress outspending big oil & gas by a 2 -1 margin! Pharma also provides significant funding for the CDC & the FDA.

Big Pharma is the juggernaut here and since the vaccines are shortly rolling out, their strategy goes into full effect in an effort to obtain high compliance. They're not going to tolerate "choice" in this matter. They want mandatory vaccines for everyone in this country...period. If someone is uncertain about the safety of the vaccines because they were rushed to market and would rather wait & see or just altogether decline, forget it - pharma isn't going to allow this and will do everything possible to force compliance through various strategies.

There's talk of states mandating it (particularly the Blue states), and this specifically is what Biden said he wants. There's talk of employers requiring vaccination. There's also talk of having an Immunity Certificate ap on your phone showing proof of vaccination that would allow you to use public transportation, attend sporting events, patronize certain businesses, etc.

As COVID-19 Vaccine Nears, Employers Consider Making It Mandatory

With promising news out of COVID-19 vaccine trials, the question now is how many people will get the vaccine? And can or will employers require their workers to get vaccinated?

www.npr.org

Weiterleitungshinweis

It's egregious that Amercan citizens may not have much of a choice on a vaccine rushed through the clinicals with unknown long-term safety data, and also appears to do little in stopping the transmission.

I think RFK, Jr sums it up nicely in this interview. The guy has been suing regulatory agencies for 40 yrs and knows quite a bit about the corruption with Big Pharma:

View: https://youtu.be/9sW0OmzcmL0

So what is this agenda that the liberal media are pushing? Yes, they have an agenda, and yes, it tends towards more governmental control. But I fail to see how what they are actually reporting on, and advocating for, in the pandemic, is going to promote that agenda. In the short run, many of the things they are advocating are consistent with greater governmental control. But a pandemic is a war, and everyone pretty much agrees that when at war, the government needs to play a major role. When the war ends, a lot of these measures will be gone.

Well...IMO, the liberal "agenda" is Democratic-Socialism with complete government control over people's lives. I spelled this out in an earlier post on the "Divided States of America." You can clearly see that play out right now with the Democratic Trifecta states (e.g. WA, OR, CA, CO, NM) implementing barbaric lockdowns & harsh restrictions - consequently destroying small businesses, restricting gatherings, shutting schools down, limiting capacity at churches, closing gyms, enacting curfews, discouraging socializing and psychologically enslaving people. These governors are enamored with the power of playing dictator and really could give a crap about Constitutional Rights & personal freedoms.

OTOH, the Republican Trifecta states (UT, TX, OK, SD, FL, MS, AR, TN) are handling their increasing case numbers & hospitalizations much differently with the idea of not destroying small businesses & schools, and trying to limit the amount of infringement on personal freedoms.

In fact, you can see this polarization already developing on the vaccine issue: Tennessee, a Republican Trifecta, will not mandate the Covid vaccine onto the childhood vaccine schedule allowing the parents and other people a "CHOICE" - a word the Leftists want to abolish.

Weiterleitungshinweis

"The Republican added: "Vaccines are a choice and people have the choice and will have the choice in this state as to whether or not they should take that vaccine."

Conversely, New Mexico, a Democratic Trifecta, can force individuals - under threat of house arrest - to vaccinate people against their will:

Mandatory COVID-19 vaccination is a disastrous policy for New Mexico

Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham stated that she plans to make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for nursing home residents, healthcare workers and educators.

www.google.com

So...there you are; welcome to the Divided States of America.

 

[Nomad]

"Moderna's chief medical officer says that vaccine trial results only show that they prevent people from getting sick — not necessarily that recipients won't still be able to transmit the virus."

Weiterleitungshinweis

"Expert raises flag over the 'shaky science' behind Oxford's Covid jab and claims data behind promising vaccine 'was patched together and doesn't include many over-55s'

Expert raises flag over the 'shaky science' behind Oxford's Covid jab

Hilda Bastian, an accomplished Australian scientist turned writer who blogs for the British Medical Journal (BMJ), claims data from the Oxford trials has been 'patched together'.

www.google.com

 

[Nomad]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331720763477463046

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/LenCabrera/status/1331720763477463046?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1331720763477463046%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dfd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Flencabrera%2Fstatus%2F1331720763477463046image%3D

 

[Oldermanish]

In every plague in history there has been a need to define a cause, an "other" to fight against or fear. The "media" is not a singular, organized monolith with an organized agenda. A piece of paper is media as is water; so maybe that is too broad to describe what individuals and societies are singling out as the enemy. The psychology of exploiting the fears hasn't changed much since the dark ages. Wars against the "other", frequently on the direct association with a disease or ideas-as-a disease have justified the most heinous human acts from the Crusades to French genocide of Protestants to Russian, Polish, German....extermination of Jewish people. Politicians rise and fall during these wars just like actual fire-fight conflicts with armies.

Are we getting so vested in the labeling of the messengers that the threat is being minimized? Who profits from those resulting events? When RFK junior and OAC promote apparent extremes of socio/political ideas do we automatically embrace them as truth? These are the questions should be asked before we respond and we should do so as if the lives of our loved ones are at risk. Because they are.

 

[Oldermanish]

Another example, elsewhere in our musings:

Aragon said:
There was some animosity between the two (LA and TT), but my reading is that because the USADA inquiry is a rare look by the authorities into the doping culture, Tygart only got confused by the magnitude of the individual facts, and thought that his "Ulysses" described something totally 100 % unique with its hundreds of footnotes and thousands of pages of supplementary material.

The inquiry was unique, the subject necessarily not so. The inquiry into Mr. Bloom's day in the year 1904 was unique, his solitary vices in the beach necessarily not so.

There can also be public choise/ bureaucratic reasons. Of course anti-doping crusaders -- who can have also a real shortage of money -- must show also that they are effective in saving souls (ie. destroying "the most sophisticated doping program) of the most evil people ("monsters who coerced children into doping use").

Gotta love using Joyce as a translator. It took him 7 years to write it and then it was banned as pornography by many. Hate the messenger.....

 

[djpbaltimore]

The vaccines are being pushed by "Big Pharma" which incidentally has a lot of control over the mainstream media though major advertising dollars, as well as being the biggest lobbyist in Congress outspending big oil & gas by a 2 -1 margin! Pharma also provides significant funding for the CDC & the FDA.

Big Pharma is the juggernaut here and since the vaccines are shortly rolling out, their strategy goes into full effect in an effort to obtain high compliance. They're not going to tolerate "choice" in this matter. They want mandatory vaccines for everyone in this country...period. If someone is uncertain about the safety of the vaccines because they were rushed to market and would rather wait & see or just altogether decline, forget it - pharma isn't going to allow this and will do everything possible to force compliance through various strategies.

There's talk of states mandating it (particularly the Blue states), and this specifically is what Biden said he wants. There's talk of employers requiring vaccination. There's also talk of having an Immunity Certificate ap on your phone showing proof of vaccination that would allow you to use public transportation, attend sporting events, patronize certain businesses, etc.

As COVID-19 Vaccine Nears, Employers Consider Making It Mandatory

With promising news out of COVID-19 vaccine trials, the question now is how many people will get the vaccine? And can or will employers require their workers to get vaccinated?

www.npr.org

Weiterleitungshinweis

It's egregious that Amercan citizens may not have much of a choice on a vaccine rushed through the clinicals with unknown long-term safety data, and also appears to do little in stopping the transmission.

I think RFK, Jr sums it up nicely in this interview. The guy has been suing regulatory agencies for 40 yrs and knows quite a bit about the corruption with Big Pharma:

View: https://youtu.be/9sW0OmzcmL0



Well...IMO, the liberal "agenda" is Democratic-Socialism with complete government control over people's lives. I spelled this out in an earlier post on the "Divided States of America." You can clearly see that play out right now with the Democratic Trifecta states (e.g. WA, OR, CA, CO, NM) implementing barbaric lockdowns & harsh restrictions - consequently destroying small businesses, restricting gatherings, shutting schools down, limiting capacity at churches, closing gyms, enacting curfews, discouraging socializing and psychologically enslaving people. These governors are enamored with the power of playing dictator and really could give a crap about Constitutional Rights & personal freedoms.

OTOH, the Republican Trifecta states (UT, TX, OK, SD, FL, MS, AR, TN) are handling their increasing case numbers & hospitalizations much differently with the idea of not destroying small businesses & schools, and trying to limit the amount of infringement on personal freedoms.

In fact, you can see this polarization already developing on the vaccine issue: Tennessee, a Republican Trifecta, will not mandate the Covid vaccine onto the childhood vaccine schedule allowing the parents and other people a "CHOICE" - a word the Leftists want to abolish.

Weiterleitungshinweis

"The Republican added: "Vaccines are a choice and people have the choice and will have the choice in this state as to whether or not they should take that vaccine."

Conversely, New Mexico, a Democratic Trifecta, can force individuals - under threat of house arrest - to vaccinate people against their will:

Mandatory COVID-19 vaccination is a disastrous policy for New Mexico

Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham stated that she plans to make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for nursing home residents, healthcare workers and educators.

www.google.com

So...there you are; welcome to the Divided States of America.

Strange that big pharma is so excited to mandate vaccinations that they haven't done so for any current vaccine. Rfk jr is an anti vaxxer crank. SCOTUS has decided that the state can mandate vaccinations. There is no doubt of that power. I do doubt that is going to happen. But all you freedom lovers should realize that your freedom comes with some strings attached. You can decide to not get vaccinated, but you have to be willing to live with the ramifications involving travel and employment etc.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331720763477463046

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/LenCabrera/status/1331720763477463046?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1331720763477463046%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dfd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Flencabrera%2Fstatus%2F1331720763477463046image%3D

That really shows how far apart people are about Covid19. Most people with a drop of empathy would call killing 1 out of every 1000 people a terrible tragedy. People like this troglodyte shrugs his shoulders. The irony is that if people had pulled together when it mattered, there would be no masks and a vastly smaller mortality number. Too much freedom greatly stripped freedoms that we took for granted.

 

[Merckx index]

The vaccines are being pushed by "Big Pharma"

IOW, there are multiple players with different agendas. There isn't a monolithic liberal media agenda.

I think RFK, Jr sums it up nicely in this interview.

RFK is an anti-VAXer. If people like him had had more power in the past, we'd still be dealing with polio, and a host of other diseases.

You can clearly see that play out right now with the Democratic Trifecta states (e.g. WA, OR, CA, CO, NM) implementing barbaric lockdowns & harsh restrictions - consequently destroying small businesses, restricting gatherings, shutting schools down, limiting capacity at churches, closing gyms, enacting curfews, discouraging socializing and psychologically enslaving people. These governors are enamored with the power of playing dictator and really could give a crap about Constitutional Rights & personal freedoms.

OTOH, the Republican Trifecta states (UT, TX, OK, SD, FL, MS, AR, TN) are handling their increasing case numbers & hospitalizations much differently with the idea of not destroying small businesses & schools, and trying to limit the amount of infringement on personal freedoms.

	Cases/million	Deaths/million
Dem trifecta	29,089	458
Rep trifecta	46,648	762

"CHOICE" - a word the Leftists want to abolish

You define "choice" very selectively. Many of us would like the choice of living in places where people aren't allowed to spread the virus, carry weapons of death, and pollute the air and water.

Most people with a drop of empathy would call killing 1 out of every 1000 people a terrible tragedy.

Most people with a brain would not fly if one out of every 1000 planes crashed.

 

[yaco]

Can we please stop this American 'Tit for Tat' rubbish that is infiltrating this thread - It makes hard to find quality and relevant information about COVID.

 

[Oldermanish]

The vaccines are being pushed by "Big Pharma" which incidentally has a lot of control over the mainstream media though major advertising dollars, as well as being the biggest lobbyist in Congress outspending big oil & gas by a 2 -1 margin! Pharma also provides significant funding for the CDC & the FDA.

Big Pharma is the juggernaut here and since the vaccines are shortly rolling out, their strategy goes into full effect in an effort to obtain high compliance. They're not going to tolerate "choice" in this matter. They want mandatory vaccines for everyone in this country...period. If someone is uncertain about the safety of the vaccines because they were rushed to market and would rather wait & see or just altogether decline, forget it - pharma isn't going to allow this and will do everything possible to force compliance through various strategies.

There's talk of states mandating it (particularly the Blue states), and this specifically is what Biden said he wants. There's talk of employers requiring vaccination. There's also talk of having an Immunity Certificate ap on your phone showing proof of vaccination that would allow you to use public transportation, attend sporting events, patronize certain businesses, etc.

As COVID-19 Vaccine Nears, Employers Consider Making It Mandatory

With promising news out of COVID-19 vaccine trials, the question now is how many people will get the vaccine? And can or will employers require their workers to get vaccinated?

www.npr.org

Weiterleitungshinweis

It's egregious that Amercan citizens may not have much of a choice on a vaccine rushed through the clinicals with unknown long-term safety data, and also appears to do little in stopping the transmission.

I think RFK, Jr sums it up nicely in this interview. The guy has been suing regulatory agencies for 40 yrs and knows quite a bit about the corruption with Big Pharma:

View: https://youtu.be/9sW0OmzcmL0



Well...IMO, the liberal "agenda" is Democratic-Socialism with complete government control over people's lives. I spelled this out in an earlier post on the "Divided States of America." You can clearly see that play out right now with the Democratic Trifecta states (e.g. WA, OR, CA, CO, NM) implementing barbaric lockdowns & harsh restrictions - consequently destroying small businesses, restricting gatherings, shutting schools down, limiting capacity at churches, closing gyms, enacting curfews, discouraging socializing and psychologically enslaving people. These governors are enamored with the power of playing dictator and really could give a crap about Constitutional Rights & personal freedoms.

OTOH, the Republican Trifecta states (UT, TX, OK, SD, FL, MS, AR, TN) are handling their increasing case numbers & hospitalizations much differently with the idea of not destroying small businesses & schools, and trying to limit the amount of infringement on personal freedoms.

In fact, you can see this polarization already developing on the vaccine issue: Tennessee, a Republican Trifecta, will not mandate the Covid vaccine onto the childhood vaccine schedule allowing the parents and other people a "CHOICE" - a word the Leftists want to abolish.

Weiterleitungshinweis

"The Republican added: "Vaccines are a choice and people have the choice and will have the choice in this state as to whether or not they should take that vaccine."

Conversely, New Mexico, a Democratic Trifecta, can force individuals - under threat of house arrest - to vaccinate people against their will:

Mandatory COVID-19 vaccination is a disastrous policy for New Mexico

Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham stated that she plans to make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for nursing home residents, healthcare workers and educators.

www.google.com

So...there you are; welcome to the Divided States of America.

We live near Seattle and most of what you say is not true. The characterizations about motive and effect sound like another cut/paste from someone else's blog; usually someone that can't spell Constitution let alone tell us how it works. As for the your Republican Trifecta states; most of them have led the way in Covid 19 record increases so the local policy is accomplishing that.

Back to vaccines-do you think it unreasonable for a business to offer to pay and make it requisite for employees that work in close contact with others or the public to get vaccinated? I can't imagine a business even trying it without offering alternative work to those who do not want to vaccinate. That would be legally nuts.

 

[jmdirt]

Can we please stop this American 'Tit for Tat' rubbish that is infiltrating this thread - It makes hard to find quality and relevant information about COVID.

Kinda crazy coming from someone who was part of a drawn out tit for tat about Australian Covid "issues".

Anyway, are you getting a vaccine as soon as one is available to you?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Back to vaccines-do you think it unreasonable for a business to offer to pay and make it requisite for employees that work in close contact with others or the public to get vaccinated? I can't imagine a business even trying it without offering alternative work to those who do not want to vaccinate. That would be legally nuts.

The law is pretty clear. Employers can mandate vaccinations if they want and it is routine in some professions already. I don't know what alternative work at a nursing home would even be. Medical oriented workplaces routinely offer things like Hep B and flu for free if it is required but that can vary by state. Religious or health exemptions do exist.

 

[dusty red roads]

An Australian in New York called it 'first' — and then the world started questioning the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine

Earlier this week trial results from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were lauded by the Australian Government and across the world, with one dosing option showing 90 per cent protection against COVID. But as the week rolled on, things changed.

www.abc.net.au

One tidbit in amongst the current discussion about the vaccine results:

Vaccine expert and virologist Tony Cunningham said it was too early to tell how the dosing issue with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine could impact approval in Australia until its whole phase 3 trial results were known.

Those results, which assess 40,000 people, are expected before Christmas.

 

[Jagartrott]

I'm curious about the J&J trials. Not only because the vaccine has mainly been developed by daughter company Janssen Pharmaceuticals, which is located about 15 km from my home, but also because they test both a single dose and a double dose vaccine. I don't know where they stand now, but the one-dose trial started in September (60,000 volunteers) and the two-dose trial started mid-November (30,000 volunteers). Did they get clues from the first trial that it was not working that well?

 

[yaco]

Kinda crazy coming from someone who was part of a drawn out tit for tat about Australian Covid "issues".

Anyway, are you getting a vaccine as soon as one is available to you?

Way to deflect - There has limited discussion about Australia in this forum - I'll be getting the Vaccine ASAP so I can have holidays and be able to travel.

 

[hrotha]

Saying that the vaccines are being pushed by Big Pharma sounds ominous and nefarious but if you just say that announcements about the vaccines are being made by the companies making and testing the vaccines it loses much of its edge.

 

[Jagartrott]

And of course, the only way vaccines can be manufactured and distributed in quantities unseen, is through 'Big Pharma'. The Pfizer vaccine was actually developed by BioNTech, which is not big at all. Oxford researchers partnered with Astrazeneca, and Moderna is also not that big itself and is working together with Lonza (a Swiss company that often partners with big pharma) for production.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Saying that the vaccines are being pushed by Big Pharma sounds ominous and nefarious but if you just say that announcements about the vaccines are being made by the companies making and testing the vaccines it loses much of its edge.

This is true.

I remember a time when big pharma was despised. Funny that.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Too much freedom greatly stripped freedoms that we took for granted.

In the US we have a Constitution. The very first amendment talks about rights that can not be “stripped” from you or any other American.

Except they were and are.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Still doesn't make what I said any less true. Our unwillingness to do anything meaningful in March and April has made us much less free now. Who else loves to skip holiday with family in order for small businesses to dictate what health guidelines should be?