Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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LOL. Watching more of Yeadon. He is comparing people getting the vaccine to what the Nazis did in WWII. OH-kayyyyy.....
I think he's talking about the Nuremberg Code that was established after the defeat of Nazi Germany during the Nuremberg war crime trials. The Nazi medical system had been conducting experiments involving medical treatments, surgeries, drugs, etc, on Jewish & German citizens without consent and against their will. The Nuremberg code laid the foundation that governments can't conduct medical experiments without informed consent and that people can't be subjected to force, coercion, duress, fraud & deceit. There must be free power of choice (you'd be surprised how many people have never heard of the Nuremberg Code...college educated and all).

I think Yeadon feels this is a postmarketing trial phase where it's still experimental. And judging from the language used by the MHRA in the contract with the AI company hired to monitor the anticipated high number of ADRs, it sounds like there's great uncertainty on how the vaccine with interact with "millions of people's immune systems."


"The types of vaccine being developed, such as the MRNA and chimpanzee adenovirus are relatively new, making it hard to predict how they will interact with millions of people's immune systems."

"The contract from MHRA also concedes that the timelines of the coronavirus vaccine has been accelerated so fast that an accurate analysis of their safety may not be available when they start to be trialled in mational immunisation campaigns"
 
"No Alcohol for 2 Months, Russia Tells Coronavirus Vaccine Recipients."


"Recipients of Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine should abstain from alcohol for nearly two months before and after immunization, the head of Russia's consumer safety watchdog said Tuesday."

Yeah...we'll see how they try to pull this off - 2 months and no alcohol? Lol.
 
One of the most concerning to look at with vaccines is autoimmune diseases. Vaccine-induced autoimmune diseases can sometimes take years to manifest themselves. And these pathologies are difficult to treat and usually are permanent.

And didn't it take years for Dr. Offit to safely develop the rotavirus vaccine?
Was Rotavirus killing 3k people a day in this country with little end in sight? The EUA itself asks whether the benefit outweighs the potential harm. In this case, there is no question of that based on the data presented.
In 1976, indeed, the H1N1 vaccination campaign suddenly dropped in the USA due to an increase, within 6 weeks, of 500 cases of GBS (including 25 deaths) over 45 million vaccinated [41].
These are rare occurrences that likely would not be even picked up in these clinical trials. 500 in 45 million is about 1 in 100,000. And as you probably know, Travis Frederick played in the NFL after GBS, so YMMV. 6 weeks is also within the safety window of the current trials which is 2 months.
I think he's talking about the Nuremberg Code that was established after the defeat of Nazi Germany during the Nuremberg war crime trials. The Nazi medical system had been conducting experiments involving medical treatments, surgeries, drugs, etc, on Jewish & German citizens without consent and against their will.

I think Yeadon feels this is a postmarketing trial phase where it's still experimental. And judging from the language used by the MHRA in the contract with the AI company hired to monitor the anticipated high number of ADRs, it sounds like there's great uncertainty on how the vaccine with interact with "millions of people's immune systems."

"The types of vaccine being developed, such as the MRNA and chimpanzee adenovirus are relatively new, making it hard to predict how they will interact with millions of people's immune systems."

"The contract from MHRA also concedes that the timelines of the coronavirus vaccine has been accelerated so fast that an accurate analysis of their safety may not be available when they start to be trialled in mational immunisation campaigns"
I gathered that part but it is insane to compare forced medical procedures performed by Nazis with voluntary vaccination against a pandemic virus. All these things are always experimental no matter what stage a drug or vaccine is on even after it is approved. Treatments get pulled if enough adverse effects are detected and it is considered that the benefits no longer outweigh the harm. The vaccine will probably interact with the immune system of millions very similar to how it acted on the thousands in the trials. The safety profile is very good. Which doesn't mean that there won't be adverse effects at all, but they are often minor and self-limiting.
You can't seriously believe these are the adverse effects that the FDA is 'expecting'. It is all the possible things that they are monitoring out of an abundance of caution as they would for any drug or vaccine. Notice how the misinformation gets made in real time by the anti-vaxxers. Just wait, they have made it their life's goal to sabotage these vaccines and will stop at nothing. I hope we are prepared to withstand the lies.

Should be noted that the 'vaccine expert' in the tweet has moved on to claiming that global warming is not caused by CO2. Oh-kayyyyy.

Digging farther and Yeadon is claiming that Covid vaccines might cause female sterilization. Normal stuff from Nomad's brigade.
 
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I'd follow the science. I'd ask and persuade people to do the safe thing but I would not trample anyone's Liberty. I'd stop pretending Covid discriminates against people with certain political beliefs. I'd not use the pandemic to remake society in a more progressive way. I would not shutter/fine/arrest business owners who have taken every possible measure to provide their service in as safe a way as possible. I would acknowledge and recognize the catastrophic damage caused to those who the pandemic has destroyed financially and not smugly shrug my shoulders and say "too bad for you.' I'd recognize the damage done (primarily) to disadvantaged kids and I would not allow public teachers unions to flush a generation down the toilet in order to re-imagine education in this Country.
That's OK, but you know that asking nicely may work in a society like Japan (where they can't install tough restrictions because their constitution doesn't allow it), but not in a hyper-individualized country like the US. So you're going to end up with a lot of dead.

I support a course of action where rules preserve individual liberties as much as possible (i.e. what happened in Spain and Italy, where you weren't even allowed to leave your home for hiking or biking, is a total no-go for me), but that take into account that some restrictions need to be enforced to keep hospitals from collapsing. However, the ones that are suffering financial consequences from those restrictions (like bar owners) should be compensated to a reasonable extent instead of being left out in the cold (this also answers your question regarding the person in the video). Schools should remain open as much as possible, as we are doing in most of Europe. Mental wellbeing should be taken seriously. Restrictions need to be sensible: i.e. as it is currently (in winter) impossible to go to zero, you aim for infection rates that are manageable, i.e. hospitals and doctors can treat other patients as (nearly) normal.

Especially with vaccines very close now, I don't think that my view is extreme at all, whereas I see a lot of extra fatalities and casualties (also non-covid) in your scenario.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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So you're going to end up with a lot of dead.
I think that was always going to be true. In the US the death rate is about 900 per 1,000,000 people. In Belgium it's about 1,500 per 1,000,000.

I support a course of action where rules preserve individual liberties as much as possible (i.e. what happened in Spain and Italy, where you weren't even allowed to leave your home for hiking or biking, is a total no-go for me), but that take into account that some restrictions need to be enforced to keep hospitals from collapsing. However, the ones that are suffering financial consequences from those restrictions (like bar owners) should be compensated to a reasonable extent instead of being left out in the cold (this also answers your question regarding the person in the video). Schools should remain open as much as possible, as we are doing in most of Europe. Mental wellbeing should be taken seriously. Restrictions need to be sensible: i.e. as it is currently (in winter) impossible to go to zero, you aim for infection rates that are manageable, i.e. hospitals and doctors can treat other patients as (nearly) normal.
I mostly agree.

Especially with vaccines very close now, I don't think that my view is extreme at all, whereas I see a lot of extra fatalities and casualties (also non-covid) in your scenario.
Since our approaches are very similar I'm not sure how you get to your conclusion.
 
I was assuming you would never enforce closure of pubs, restaurants, gyms, etc. Sweden tried it, it didn't work out and they had to change tactics (IC beds in Stockholm region at 99% capacity. Luxembourg hasn't closed these venues in the second wave, and they've been number 1 in Europe for more than two weeks now in terms of infections/capita.

Outdoor dining, I think this should be allowed, but that's not an option here the coming months (contrary to So-Cal).
 
The FDA board voted for approval of the EUA for the Pfizer vaccine. It sounds like the FDA makes the final determination tomorrow for the US. (Monderna goes through this same process next week). The vote was 19-4 and it sounds like the 4 no votes were because they didn't want approval for 16-17 years old yet. Something about not enough data on that group and would have voted yes if it was 18 and older.
 
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I was assuming you would never enforce closure of pubs, restaurants, gyms, etc. Sweden tried it, it didn't work out and they had to change tactics (IC beds in Stockholm region at 99% capacity. Luxembourg hasn't closed these venues in the second wave, and they've been number 1 in Europe for more than two weeks now in terms of infections/capita.

Outdoor dining, I think this should be allowed, but that's not an option here the coming months (contrary to So-Cal).
The county I live in will start a 4 week ban on all restaurant dining on Monday. That includes indoor and outdoor spaces. But unlike what I have seen of warmer climates like SoCal, the outdoor setups here have mostly been converted to pseudo-outdoor to allow the area to be heated by lamps and braziers, violating the spirit of the law. So, like you mention, it really depends on where you live whether there should be outdoor dining allowed.
 
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This is an interesting story that misses the actual point of the failure. The lack of antigen in the vaccine was unintentional caused by a screwup in manufacturing.

From a different article.
It discovered two commercial reagents used to measure how much antigen — active vaccine — was included in each dose were giving false readings.
 
You can't seriously believe these are the adverse effects that the FDA is 'expecting'. It is all the possible things that they are monitoring out of an abundance of caution as they would for any drug or vaccine. Notice how the misinformation gets made in real time by the anti-vaxxers. Just wait, they have made it their life's goal to sabotage these vaccines and will stop at nothing. I hope we are prepared to withstand the lies.
Excluding Nikolov's introductory statement, the CDC list does clearly state: "possible adverse event outcomes." It doesn't say possible but very unlikely adverse event outcomes. The language used suggests those listed ADRs are possible. So, are you guaranteeing that the "safety profile is good" and that ADRs are "often minor & self-limiting" - therefore making the CDC statement exaggerated & unimaginable?

Digging farther and Yeadon is claiming that Covid vaccines might cause female sterilization.
That's not exactly what he said:

 

"About 55 percent of 2,053 smoke-eaters polled in the last three days by their union, the Uniformed Firefighters Association, answered “No” when asked, “Will you get the COVID-19 Vaccine from Pfizer when the Department makes it available?,” UFA president Andy Ansbro told The Post. The responses account for about 25 percent of the UFA’s 8,200 active members."

"The stunning anti-vax response follows an August survey of MTA workers that showed only 30 percent of 645 respondents were definitely willing to be vaccinated. Thirty-eight percent were unsure and 32 percent said they would not take the vaccine, according to the poll of Transport Workers Union members conducted by the NYU School of Global Public Health.
"
 
Excluding Nikolov's introductory statement, the CDC list does clearly state: "possible adverse event outcomes." It doesn't say possible but very unlikely adverse event outcomes. The language used suggests those listed ADRs are possible. So, are you guaranteeing that the "safety profile is good" and that ADRs are "often minor & self-limiting" - therefore making the CDC statement exaggerated & unimaginable?

That's not exactly what he said:
I don't know what you are referring to re: CDC. Are we talking about the FDA's statement? It is possible that I will be the head of the CDC by Monday. I will let you decide whether that possible event is an unlikely outcome or not.

As for safety, this is what they published.
The safety profile of BNT162b2 was characterized by short-term, mild-to-moderate pain at the injection site, fatigue, and headache. The incidence of serious adverse events was low and was similar in the vaccine and placebo groups.
I think my characterization is rather accurate.

From your link. "They claimed that it’s possible women who receive the vaccine could become infertile. However, they did not state as fact that the vaccine causes sterility, as the Health and Money News headline suggests." How is that different than what I wrote?
Digging farther and Yeadon is claiming that Covid vaccines might cause female sterilization. Normal stuff from Nomad's brigade.
 
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Dave Portnoy just went on a rant about indoor dining being closed in NYC. His complaint is that it is too cold to be eating outside. The rest of his bit involved mostly reheated arguments that people are just going to go eat at house parties anyway and that people who are scared of COVID should stay home and let people live their lives. I alluded to problems that arise from the bottom, rather than the top yesterday. This is one of the reasons that we can't be Germany. This mindset is much more widespread here and is contributing to the 3k deaths a day. The one new bit he said was that we are close to the vaccine, so we should not do any restrictions. Obviously, we are not that close to everyday people getting the vaccine, but it is interesting that some people see the vaccine as a reason to increase restrictions and preserve life as much as possible, while others see it as more reason to do nothing.

Despite the rhetoric, I have seen precious few restaurants actually go out of business in my area. NYC may be a different story due to rent costs and the longer restrictions.
 
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WH Chief of Staff Mark Meadows reportedly told the FDA head that if he didn't approve the vaccine by Friday, he would have to resign:


Genetic fingerprinting, identifying single mutations or polymorphisms, in viral sequence, was used to show that a biotech conference in Boston led to more than 300,000 infections--about a quarter of a million deriving from a single individual-- in at least eighteen other states and many other countries. The spread can be tracked, because two particular mutations, or base changes, were different from that in most other viral samples. Normally, you can't follow the spread, because it occurs through many different steps. Person A infects B,C, and D, one or more than one of whom infects E,F,G,H,I, etc. You don't know who has come into contact with who else, let alone which contacts transmitted the virus. The presence of the polymorphism in effect labels the virus, so that one can follow its movement through multiple chains in the sequence.

About one hundred people were infected at the conference, and by early May, the end of the initial period in which the researchers analyzed viral samples from infected patients, these two viral sequences accounted for about 50,000 cases, about half of which were in MA, and the other half in other states.. The researchers then analyzed more samples obtained in November; about 1.9% of these samples contained one of these two viral sequences. On this basis, they came to the estimate of about 245,000 cases from one sequence, and about 90,000 cases from the second sequence. But if I understand their numbers correctly, this total of about 330,000 cases makes up about 3.5% of the total cases reported in the U.S. at that time, about 9.5 million. So extrapolating to today's 16 million cases, that is about 560,000 cases, all deriving from that conference at the end of February.

Koronin, you might be interested to know that NC is one of the states with the highest proportion of these sequences (more than 20%), apparently because many of the conference attendees were from that state.



This spread began last February, when the CFR was much higher than it is today. But if we use the overall CFR rate today, more than 10,000 deaths would be expected to result from the 560,000 cases, almost 8000 of them from one viral sequence that is believed to be traced to a single individual. A sobering reminder of how much death can result from spread begun by just one person.
 
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You know somebody's panties are in a twist and their comb over is standing on end..England,Canada, and other countries gettin' the drop on the country that developed the vaccine!!! So much for warp speed..warped speed more like..
if Africa gets a photo op to show a Covid vaccine administered..someone is going to soil his diaper..
 
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I don't know what you are referring to re: CDC. Are we talking about the FDA's statement? It is possible that I will be the head of the CDC by Monday. I will let you decide whether that possible event is an unlikely outcome or not.

As for safety, this is what they published.
I think my characterization is rather accurate.

From your link. "They claimed that it’s possible women who receive the vaccine could become infertile. However, they did not state as fact that the vaccine causes sterility, as the Health and Money News headline suggests." How is that different than what I wrote?
 
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