Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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You should look up what idiopathic means. Basically denotes a condition with an unknown cause. Yes.. unknown cause. I think this article lays out the arguments well. But like me and spivak, he has not had access to the medical records, so be aware that these are mostly speculation.
I know what Idiopathic means. Are you suggesting that Dr. Spivak doesn't know the meaning because he's clearly stated to the NY Times that he believes it's a "medical certainty" that the vaccine caused Dr. Micheal's death. And how do you know he doesn't have access to Michael's medical records? Michael's wife has stated that she's certain her husband's death was "100% linked to the vaccine." She could have released her husband's medical records to Spivak which is done in a lot of these cases.

I'm putting more emphasis on Spivak, an expert on blood disorders at JH, who would put his reputation at risk as well as challenge the behemoth Pfizer by telling the NY Times that he believes it's a "medical certainty" that the vaccine caused Micheal's death. Certainty means definite - why would Spivak risk his reputation if he wasn't absolutely certain of his conclusion?


The key point is this occurs in 16 people a day in the USA. Despite what Nomad thinks, ITP has numerous suspected triggers, including viral infections. The only American killed by Zika was killed by ITP. So, being a healthy person is not a guarantee that you won't develop this condition. Beyond what is stated in the article, the timing is a red flag for me. You don't develop antibodies with in 3 days of getting a vaccine. So the notion that auto-antibodies generated by a vaccine could deplete a person's platelets within 3 days does not seem likely to me. That is my speculation FWIW.
According to Lyn Redwood of the CHD (from the article), ITP has been associated with the MMR vaccine in approximately 1 in every 25,000 to 40,000 doses. She says ITP has also been associated with the HBU, HPU, DTap, polio & pneumococcus vaccines.

Vaccines should not be mandated based on an EUA. It is a different story if it achieves full approval which will take into account adverse effects. That you think vaccination should be halted indicates that you don't understand what the basis of an EUA is. The question is whether the potential benefit outweighs the potential risk. Given the relatively few serious adverse effects of the vaccines compared with the ~550k who died from Covid in the USA last year and there is no debate. If you don't want the vaccine, don't take it. But please spare us these patently weak justifications to your general antivax platform.
My antivaxx platform? Lol...I've identified myself as pro-choice believing in informed consent with the position that any mandated vaccine is a forced medical procedure. Therefore, I'm not suppose to post any information from qualified medical experts on safety concerns with these vaccines? How about the fact that Pfizer & Moderna have protected product liability from any damage their vaccines may (and will) cause - I shouldn't have posted that link because that would be considered antivaxx? (are you for censorship?).

I get it that this thread leans heavily Left and appears to be nearly 100% anti-Trump & anti-Right. And it looks like presently "Chris" is the lone Trump supporter engaged in what reminds me of the ancient Roman Gladiatoral games where one Gladiator would be up against numerous adversaries encircled around him. Lol (I'm actually surprised at this since 70 million Americans voted for Trump - does this suggest that most cyclists are on the Left; since this is a cycling site with a thread on Covid-19 that seems to be overwhelmingly anti-Trump & anti-Right).
 
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Chris Gadsden

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let's just address your findings
You left out the important part
400,000+ dead
The schools and the kids inside them are off because the promised testing and prevention measures promised were never delivered.
The vaccine doses and distribution that were promised and never delivered.
The daily information, consistent,constant,reliable public messaging was just not done. Even quacks like Dr.Atlas have flown the coop. All of the public safety jobs were never permanently filled with qualified professionals.
some components of the Covid 19 federal response never had a chance, multiple unqualified,examples like Homeland Security..8 people have had the job,now again nobody is filling the billet.
there has been a stark contrast in plans and promises in the last @5 weeks, with the biggest obvious differences, details, names of who is going to what,when and using what methodology. Promises and plans still are not guaranteed, but having a plan,professional personnel is a welcome change.
only just a few deadly hours more of the clown show, the circus will pack up and perform in court rooms,ice rinks and Palm Beach..
Ask today, Was there Covid anything coming from the White House? No..just news about parties,pardons and pouting
Make sure you have your Biden Amin excuses at the ready. You are going to need them.

Again, a generation of disadvantaged kids cast aside. Why? Future blocks of monolithic voters? Future compliance for the reset? Even more dependency? All of the above? Chalk it up to some sort of okiphobia I suppose.

BTW, 1.6 million dead outside the USA. You left out that part. Why the lack of concern? Surely you can tie these deaths to bad orange man.
 
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Make sure you have your Biden Amin excuses at the ready. You are going to need them.

Again, a generation of disadvantaged kids cast aside. Why? Future blocks of monolithic voters? Future compliance for the reset? Even more dependency? All of the above? Chalk it up to some sort of okiphobia I suppose.

BTW, 1.6 million dead outside the USA. You left out that part. Why the lack of concern? Surely you can tie these deaths to bad orange man.
it's as if you have laser focus..try,try,try,try again and fail to tie a virus to politics. The videos,transcripts all available w Team Trump, his kids, son in law,Rush Limbaugh,and dozens of other notables saying that Covid-19 was fake. Specific about the virus being reported,faked,developed to foil Trump's political prowess,tarnish his prestige,his momentum,his accomplishments. All of that has been proven wrong,complete BS, even before it was spoken on our shores.
The theory that never made sense, would,did completely dismiss all the sick and dead,dying people all over the world. The virus has \ is effecting everyone,world wide, no world coordinated conspiracy against Trump.
Explaining why Trump eliminated entire agencies, never filled previously critical jobs in the government,and made a half azzd, effort to get good people in critical positions..beyond anything explainable.
Now we have 400,000+ dead..you type in a belly ache about schools and kids..the billionaire Amway exec he trusted our children with,quit..not that it's a bad thing,she had no experience..you don't trust all of Americans children,their education,their health,their future to some on the job training idiot old woman. You just don't.
Covid and our kids should have been the number one priority,for the country,not a get around to it hobby after golf and tweeting.
What could possibly be the reason that Trump doesn't have a staff? Forget about talking about qualification, just a warm body, anyone who can fog a mirror..despicable.
And before you pull out the " what's the use, such a short time remaining " old song..that is why working together for the absolute most informed,smooth transition..if for nothing else,put your pride and ego aside for our kids..
 
200 million then?
There are supposed to be 200m doses provided by Pfizer and Moderna in the first quarter. That should be the bare minimum to inject by May 1st (~100 days). Add whatever J&J can deliver and I don't see how 100m doses is much of an acheivement. I don't see why we can't get to 10m a day by late April if not marginally sooner.
I know what Idiopathic means. Are you suggesting that Dr. Spivak doesn't know the meaning because he's clearly stated to the NY Times that he believes it's a "medical certainty" that the vaccine caused Dr. Micheal's death. And how do you know he doesn't have access to Michael's medical records? Michael's wife has stated that she's certain her husband's death was "100% linked to the vaccine." She could have released her husband's medical records to Spivak which is done in a lot of these cases.

I'm putting more emphasis on Spivak, an expert on blood disorders at JH, who would put his reputation at risk as well as challenge the behemoth Pfizer by telling the NY Times that he believes it's a "medical certainty" that the vaccine caused Micheal's death. Certainty means definite - why would Spivak risk his reputation if he wasn't absolutely certain of his conclusion?



According to Lyn Redwood of the CHD (from the article), ITP has been associated with the MMR vaccine in approximately 1 in every 25,000 to 40,000 doses. She says ITP has also been associated with the HBU, HPU, DTap, polio & pneumococcus vaccines.


My antivaxx platform? Lol...I've identified myself as pro-choice believing in informed consent with the position that any mandated vaccine is a forced medical procedure. Therefore, I'm not suppose to post any information from qualified medical experts on safety concerns with these vaccines? How about the fact that Pfizer & Moderna have protected product liability from any damage their vaccines may (and will) cause - I shouldn't have posted that link because that would be considered antivaxx? (are you for censorship?).

I get it that this thread leans heavily Left and appears to be nearly 100% anti-Trump & anti-Right. And it looks like presently "Chris" is the lone Trump supporter engaged in what reminds me of the ancient Roman Gladiatoral games where one Gladiator would be up against numerous adversaries encircled around him. Lol (I'm actually surprised at this since 70 million Americans voted for Trump - does this suggest that most cyclists are on the Left; since this is a cycling site with a thread on Covid-19 that seems to be overwhelmingly anti-Trump & anti-Right).
Many parents are 100% sure that their kids got autism from vaccines. With all due respect, I don't care what the wife thinks about something she can't possibly know. In the NYT article, Spivak says that his opinion is based on the wife's account, not medical records. It was also noted that he was not involved in the case. He can speculate, but it should be clear what his speculation is based on.

Association does not equal causation.

You are not an antivaxxer, you just post exclusively about reasons not to get vaccinated. I understand why you want to reside in a space where those are functionally different positions. In that same space, you can also call yourself 'pro vaccine choice' while simultaneously advocating to halt Covid vaccination, stripping choice from 330 million people. I don't know where you post, but I doubt this forum is going to indulge those facile rationalizations.

This is Nomad 's game in a nutshell. Using a scientist's opinion to question vaccine safety while leaving out the part that Spivak thinks vaccination should continue. Pure cherry picking and a prime example of belief dependent realism. Looking for evidence merely to support what you already believe.

As for the adversarial language. That kind of mindset just got people killed not so long ago. We are not at war and none of us are gladiators.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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it's as if you have laser focus..try,try,try,try again and fail to tie a virus to politics.
No actually. It is you constantly blaming every.single.thing.covid.related to Bad Orange Man. Read your own posts sometime. Wrt COVID and BOM they are mostly nauseating.

saying that Covid-19 was fake.
Almost a year now since BOM shut down travel from China. January 31, 2020 to be exact. What was the new President to be saying about it the day after the travel ban was announced?

We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering.

About 12-weeks later the soon to be President and rocket scientist said this;

A wall will not stop the coronavirus. Banning all travel from Europe — or any other part of the world — will not stop it.

Then on April 3, 2020, the Biden campaign lay down this gem;

Joe Biden supports travel bans that are guided by medical experts, advocated by public health officials, and backed by a full strategy," Kate Bedingfeld, Biden's deputy campaign manager, told CNN. "Science supported this ban, therefore he did too."

So I guess in the early, early days we can get an idea of who thought the virus was fake and who might actually have been worse at responding to it.

belly ache about schools and kids
It’s almost as if you have no concerns of how much harm putting disadvantaged kids a couple more years behind their already behind standing. Why? Believe the science when it’s convenient or is it an effort to really screw minority kids? Both?

Covid and our kids should have been the number one priority,for the country,
Says easy (for you). Does hard.

When the reset happens, when the system is in place you are longing for... just watch what happens with the divide between the haves and the have-nots. Ya know, kinda like now only much more permanent. Take a real hard look at who is winning and losing - right now.
 
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My shoulder is pretty tender and I'm definitely having an immune response so hopefully my body will be jacked and ready to kick Covid's ars by the end of February!

Bill Gates and his crew are going to get some great dirt rides with their trackers in me! :p
 
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There are supposed to be 200m doses provided by Pfizer and Moderna in the first quarter. That should be the bare minimum to inject by May 1st (~100 days). Add whatever J&J can deliver and I don't see how 100m doses is much of an acheivement. I don't see why we can't get to 10m a day by late April if not marginally sooner.
Many parents are 100% sure that their kids got autism from vaccines. With all due respect, I don't care what the wife thinks about something she can't possibly know. In the NYT article, Spivak says that his opinion is based on the wife's account, not medical records. It was also noted that he was not involved in the case. He can speculate, but it should be clear what his speculation is based on.

Association does not equal causation.

You are not an antivaxxer, you just post exclusively about reasons not to get vaccinated. I understand why you want to reside in a space where those are functionally different positions. In that same space, you can also call yourself 'pro vaccine choice' while simultaneously advocating to halt Covid vaccination, stripping choice from 330 million people. I don't know where you post, but I doubt this forum is going to indulge those facile rationalizations.

This is Nomad 's game in a nutshell. Using a scientist's opinion to question vaccine safety while leaving out the part that Spivak thinks vaccination should continue. Pure cherry picking and a prime example of belief dependent realism. Looking for evidence merely to support what you already believe.

As for the adversarial language. That kind of mindset just got people killed not so long ago. We are not at war and none of us are gladiators.
Vitamin D is way better at fighting Covid-19! ;)
 
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My shoulder is pretty tender and I'm definitely having an immune response so hopefully my body will be jacked and ready to kick Covid's ars by the end of February!

Bill Gates and his crew are going to get some great dirt rides with their trackers in me! :p
Thanks for the update.

Don't you already have Strava or something like it to track your rides? :laughing:
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Man, you really gotta feel sorry for the CCP. All these lies...

The CCP’s deadly obsession with secrecy and control comes at the expense of public health in China and around the world. The previously undisclosed information in this fact sheet, combined with open-source reporting, highlights three elements about COVID-19’s origin that deserve greater scrutiny:

1. Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV):


  • The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses.
  • Accidental infections in labs have caused several previous virus outbreaks in China and elsewhere, including a 2004 SARS outbreak in Beijing that infected nine people, killing one.
  • The CCP has prevented independent journalists, investigators, and global health authorities from interviewing researchers at the WIV, including those who were ill in the fall of 2019. Any credible inquiry into the origin of the virus must include interviews with these researchers and a full accounting of their previously unreported illness.
2. Research at the WIV:

  • Starting in at least 2016 – and with no indication of a stop prior to the COVID-19 outbreak – WIV researchers conducted experiments involving RaTG13, the bat coronavirus identified by the WIV in January 2020 as its closest sample to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% similar). The WIV became a focal point for international coronavirus research after the 2003 SARS outbreak and has since studied animals including mice, bats, and pangolins.
  • The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
  • WHO investigators must have access to the records of the WIV’s work on bat and other coronaviruses before the COVID-19 outbreak. As part of a thorough inquiry, they must have a full accounting of why the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with RaTG13 and other viruses.
3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

  • Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.
  • Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.
  • The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.
Today’s revelations just scratch the surface of what is still hidden about COVID-19’s origin in China. Any credible investigation into the origin of COVID-19 demands complete, transparent access to the research labs in Wuhan, including their facilities, samples, personnel, and records.

As the world continues to battle this pandemic – and as WHO investigators begin their work, after more than a year of delays – the virus’s origin remains uncertain. The United States will continue to do everything it can to support a credible and thorough investigation, including by continuing to demand transparency on the part of Chinese authorities.


https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/
 
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Make sure you have your Biden Amin excuses at the ready. You are going to need them.

Again, a generation of disadvantaged kids cast aside. Why? Future blocks of monolithic voters? Future compliance for the reset? Even more dependency? All of the above? Chalk it up to some sort of okiphobia I suppose.

BTW, 1.6 million dead outside the USA. You left out that part. Why the lack of concern? Surely you can tie these deaths to bad orange man.
So you just don't want to see any success at a renewed vaccine effort as some sort of a sign of support for the stragglers of the outgoing Executive branch?
So far the wall is a joke, the economy is as good as it will be until the international impacts begin to register and the Warpspeed media event is clearly done. You can be sure that Biden's administration will not make a show of building walls unless they serve a real purpose; so that's another big win for the outgoing crew (they should take photos of it quickly, before more falls into the Rio Grande). Unemployment is the ongoing backwash of Covid and that will take a year to address but you're welcome to assign the full responsibility to someone else now.
The question I'd like you to answer...not now, let it play out: if the next administration is effective in implementing a vaccine regime that they apparently will need to start from scratch as the Warpspeed deal has proven to be somewhat a hollow vehicle; will you be happy and healthy? You're carrying alot of angst now which isn't good for any of us.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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if the next administration is effective in implementing a vaccine regime that they apparently will need to start from scratch as the Warpspeed deal has proven to be somewhat a hollow vehicle; will you be happy and healthy?
As Dj has informed us upthread the 1 million per day number is already happening so 100 million in 100 days seems anemic from the new guy. Y’all need to get your stories straight.

You're carrying alot of angst now which isn't good for any of us.
I used to give a F. Probably more than I should have. You guys win. Really. Best of luck, I guess.
 
Man, you really gotta feel sorry for the CCP. All these lies...

The CCP’s deadly obsession with secrecy and control comes at the expense of public health in China and around the world. The previously undisclosed information in this fact sheet, combined with open-source reporting, highlights three elements about COVID-19’s origin that deserve greater scrutiny:

1. Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV):


  • The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses.
  • Accidental infections in labs have caused several previous virus outbreaks in China and elsewhere, including a 2004 SARS outbreak in Beijing that infected nine people, killing one.
  • The CCP has prevented independent journalists, investigators, and global health authorities from interviewing researchers at the WIV, including those who were ill in the fall of 2019. Any credible inquiry into the origin of the virus must include interviews with these researchers and a full accounting of their previously unreported illness.
2. Research at the WIV:

  • Starting in at least 2016 – and with no indication of a stop prior to the COVID-19 outbreak – WIV researchers conducted experiments involving RaTG13, the bat coronavirus identified by the WIV in January 2020 as its closest sample to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% similar). The WIV became a focal point for international coronavirus research after the 2003 SARS outbreak and has since studied animals including mice, bats, and pangolins.
  • The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
  • WHO investigators must have access to the records of the WIV’s work on bat and other coronaviruses before the COVID-19 outbreak. As part of a thorough inquiry, they must have a full accounting of why the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with RaTG13 and other viruses.
3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

  • Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.
  • Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.
  • The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.
Today’s revelations just scratch the surface of what is still hidden about COVID-19’s origin in China. Any credible investigation into the origin of COVID-19 demands complete, transparent access to the research labs in Wuhan, including their facilities, samples, personnel, and records.

As the world continues to battle this pandemic – and as WHO investigators begin their work, after more than a year of delays – the virus’s origin remains uncertain. The United States will continue to do everything it can to support a credible and thorough investigation, including by continuing to demand transparency on the part of Chinese authorities.


https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/
1. Cold symptoms found in the autumn? Uhhhhhh.....oh-kay.... News at 11.

2. RaTG13 is not nearly close enough to be the immediate predecessor of covid. Like with the genetic engineering angle, this is a red herring meant to convince lay people who want to 'connect the dots' and watch NCIS. But not really germane to the origin story. Should also be noted that Sars was from the wild, not a lab.

3. Would not be surprised if this was going on. Lol at sharing publication authorship. Really suspicious. Collaborations between academia and military scientists is common here too. Google Usamriid. In both cases, the really black box stuff does not get published IMO.

Overall, there is still the issue of how far WIV is from the market. This keeps getting conflated. There is a lab much closer to the market, but that is not WIV. And the general relationship between WIV and the virus is backwards. WIV is there because the area is a hotbed of CoV, not vice versa. We know there is a ton of viruses jumping into humans in the villages. Most can't propagate and die out. This is where people should be looking. The more confrontational this gets, the less likely we will get an answer.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Trump isn't really to blame in this pandemic, according to some.
Well, not quite.

One of the striking coincidences of the US pandemic year is that the first anniversary, 20 January 2021, falls on the day of Joe Biden’s presidential inauguration. That sets a sharp frame through which to view the year: the devastation that has befallen America as a result of the political mishandling of the crisis must wholly be owned, down to the day, by Donald Trump.

At least the author put the dead give-away right up front.

John Holdren has spent much of the year investigating what lies behind these horrifying features of the American pandemic and the human catastrophe they denote. He was Barack Obama’s senior White House science adviser through both terms in office and in that role he and a council of top scientists and public health experts prepared six reports seeking to prepare the country for a future pandemic.

When the real pandemic struck home a year ago, Holdren reassembled 10 members of that Obama-era council to carry out a series of inquiries into specific aspects of the national Covid response. What went wrong, and how could it be put right? The idea was to come up with practical tips that could help the US government extract itself from the current disaster, as well as provide advice for tackling any future pandemic.

Their findings give a wealth of detail on the failings of the Trump administration’s response. Their first inquiry, released in May, looked at how the national stockpile of emergency medical supplies had been allowed to wither under Trump.


So this Obama hack is sent in to rewrite history unfavorable to the messiah. In an age where disinformation is frowned upon one might think this garbage would never have made the printing press. We can all say there’s far more than the run of the mill double standard in play.

The federal government has to take leadership in the response to a national and global pandemic. Trump refused to do that, and that stance was an unmitigated disaster.”

I’m sure he’s talking about that crazy good leadership that came from his hero’s admin during h1n1.

In a very rare moment of truth telling by any Obama era admin official, Ron Klain (Biden’s new chief of staff) laid out this beauty;

In a Pandemic and Biosecurity Policy Summit hosted in May, 2019, Klain – who was not involved directly in the H1N1 response but was a White House staffer at the time – said “a bunch of really talented” people were working on it, but “did every possible thing wrong.”

Sixty million Americans got H1N1 in that period of time and it’s just purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Klain said. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right, it just had to do with luck.”

Back to the total hack job by the ’little g’ guardian;

The president even ignored his own top scientific advisers such as Dr Anthony Fauci, the leading US infectious diseases official.

Fauci:

I think, in credit to what has gone on in the current administration, I think that is a quite successful endeavor. I mean, to come up with a vaccine that is ready for distribution in less than a year, from the time the virus was identified is really an unprecedented speed," he added.

————

Fauci on Monday sought to squash any notion of a fissure between himself and President Trump, saying at the opening of a coronavirus task force briefing that the president repeatedly and immediately backed social distancing recommendations from Fauci and other public health officials despite the economic pain.

“The first and only time that I went in and said we should do mitigation strongly, the response was, ‘yes, we’ll do it,’” Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told reporters in the White House briefing room on Monday evening.


Fauci said Monday evening that he didn’t know the date he and Deborah Birx went to Trump to make a formal recommendation but insisted that Trump listened to the advice from public health experts, offering solidarity with Trump amid criticism of the White House response to the pandemic.

“We discussed it. Obviously, there would be concern by some that in fact that might have some negative consequences. Nonetheless, the president listened to the recommendation and went to the mitigation,” Fauci told reporters.

————

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, we've never had a threat like this and the coordinated response has been, there are a number of adjectives to describe it. Impressive, I think is one of them.

I mean, we're talking about all-hands on-deck is that I, as one of many people on a team, I'm not the only person, since the beginning that we even recognized what this was. I have been devoting almost full time on this -- almost full time.

I'm down at the White House virtually every day with the Taskforce. I'm connected by phone throughout the day and into the night and when I say night, I'm talking twelve, one, two in the morning. I'm not the only one. There's a whole group of us that are doing that. It's every single day.

So I can't imagine that that under any circumstances that anybody could be doing more. I mean, obviously, we're fighting a formidable enemy -- this virus. This virus is a serious issue here.

Take a look at what it's done to China, to Europe, to South Korea. It is serious and our response is aimed, and I know you've heard that many, many times, and this is true. I mean, I deal with viruses my entire career.

When you have an outbreak virus, if you leave it to its own devices, it will peak up and then come back down. What we learned from China, that letting it peak up is really bad, because it can do some serious damage. So we are focused now, like a laser on doing whatever we can, and there are two or three things that deserve to be mentioned -- to make this peak actually be a mound, which means you're going to have suffering, you're going to have illness, you're going to have death. But it's not going to be the maximum that the virus can do.

A couple of ways to do that. The first was, as we say, all the time, the very timely decision on the part of the President to shut off travel from China, because we saw that there was this possibility of people coming in and seeding in the country. We did it early.

And as it turned out, there were relatively few cases in the big picture of things that came in from China. Unfortunately, for our colleagues, and many of whom are my friends and people I've trained actually in Medicine, in European countries, they didn't do that. And they got hit really hard and are being hit really hard. The first thing.

Second thing, when the infection burden shifted from China to Europe, we did the same thing with Europe. We shut off travel from Europe, which again was another safeguard to prevent influx from without in.

The other way you do it is by containment and mitigation. And now everybody knows what the word mitigation means because it's the things that we're doing. No crowds, work from home. Don't go to places that you can be susceptible. Ten people in a room, not 50 and a hundred people. Stay away from theatres.

Take the elderly people who are susceptible and have them do self- isolation. Stay out of bars, stay out of restaurants.

If you're in an area where there's a lot of coronavirus activity, close the bars, close the restaurants. That's heavy duty mitigation.

So I think with all of those things going on at the same time, I believe we will -- we're already doing it, but you just can't notice it yet because you have the dynamics of the virus going up. We're trying to put it down. You're not really sure quantitatively what you're doing, but you can be actually certain that we're having an impact on it.

———

The remainder of the hit-piece is a montage of people affected by the destruction left from the virus.

This isn’t even garbage journalism. It’s straight-up propaganda.
 
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Man, you really gotta feel sorry for the CCP. All these lies...

The CCP’s deadly obsession with secrecy and control comes at the expense of public health in China and around the world. The previously undisclosed information in this fact sheet, combined with open-source reporting, highlights three elements about COVID-19’s origin that deserve greater scrutiny:

1. Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV):


  • The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses.
  • Accidental infections in labs have caused several previous virus outbreaks in China and elsewhere, including a 2004 SARS outbreak in Beijing that infected nine people, killing one.
  • The CCP has prevented independent journalists, investigators, and global health authorities from interviewing researchers at the WIV, including those who were ill in the fall of 2019. Any credible inquiry into the origin of the virus must include interviews with these researchers and a full accounting of their previously unreported illness.
2. Research at the WIV:

  • Starting in at least 2016 – and with no indication of a stop prior to the COVID-19 outbreak – WIV researchers conducted experiments involving RaTG13, the bat coronavirus identified by the WIV in January 2020 as its closest sample to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% similar). The WIV became a focal point for international coronavirus research after the 2003 SARS outbreak and has since studied animals including mice, bats, and pangolins.
  • The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
  • WHO investigators must have access to the records of the WIV’s work on bat and other coronaviruses before the COVID-19 outbreak. As part of a thorough inquiry, they must have a full accounting of why the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with RaTG13 and other viruses.
3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

  • Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.
  • Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.
  • The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.
Today’s revelations just scratch the surface of what is still hidden about COVID-19’s origin in China. Any credible investigation into the origin of COVID-19 demands complete, transparent access to the research labs in Wuhan, including their facilities, samples, personnel, and records.

As the world continues to battle this pandemic – and as WHO investigators begin their work, after more than a year of delays – the virus’s origin remains uncertain. The United States will continue to do everything it can to support a credible and thorough investigation, including by continuing to demand transparency on the part of Chinese authorities.


https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/
Feel sorry for you, eating up every single lie from Mike "We lied, we cheated, we stole" Pompeo since you obviously can't think for yourself. Still waiting for him to present the so called "enormous evidence" that he supposedly has, instead of repeating these lies that have been debunked many times already. 9 months ago... still waiting.

 
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Chris often you get confused. Trump is my President. He represents all of us,including me,like it or not. There is no ala carte, Chinese food menu option..you get it all, responsible for 100%, no chance to segregate the sick from the rich..Anything that happens from day one,to the hand off on year four is yours,you own it.
Covid is an American emergency, you can't wish it away. Trump was wrong,the virus is not seasonally sensitive. Not cured with lights or zinc cream or tablets.
The reason that Trump has not come up with a plan..is his, he owns it.
please don't make anybody else link video of Donald saying it's false,under control,made by his enemies..all were,are false. It's a virus,it's a medical issue, not a money thing..and not political..
Covid 19 is racial..it effects certain races more than others, had science and plain language used the United States as a whole,white and everyone inbetween would be much better off. Had Trump come up with Covid common sense he would have deployed resources and cash,in dump truck loads on Latino and black,Native American communities. He said more than once in public that he knew it was disproportionately affected them, but took no specific action.
Biden in plain language,plans to go after target groups for vaccination,old people,and Latinos,Blacks and Natives..he said so, he said who he plans to use to accomplish the objective and a tentative time frame.
Had Trump followed through on his testing promises and directed help towards the disproportionately affected groups, I personally believe things would look different. But that didn't happen.
The mask mandate will be targeted so it can work,not at the general public. Carrot and stick, w compliance being a qualifier for federal money..federal government employees and could contractors will need to wear masks as a dress code. Simply things,not perfect but instead incremental progress..a plan
Huge obstacle for Biden is trying to undo public health as political..and the hyper speed,the warp speed that Trump said,in his deeds made Covid treatment and prevention a political football..w over 400000 dead anyone can see that was a deadly mistake
 

Chris Gadsden

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Feel sorry for you, eating up every single lie from Mike "We lied, we cheated, we stole" Pompeo since you obviously can't think for yourself. Still waiting for him to present the so called "enormous evidence" that he supposedly has, instead of repeating these lies that have been debunked many times already. 9 months ago... still waiting.


Oh, I know. Some of us still aren't receiving the daily CCP memo telling us what to think. Thankfully, you are here.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Chris often you get confused.
I'm a lot of things. Confused isn't one of them.

Trump is my President.
BOM was never your President.

The reason that Trump has not come up with a plan..is his, he owns it.
With Fauci and Birx and Azar and Gottlieb and a host of others.

Covid 19 is racial.
I think you mean racist, and no it's not.

Meanwhile, in a State where a Governor shall remain blameless (because he votes correctly);


“California has among the lower rates of vaccine administration in the country, with only 38% of the 3.1 million doses delivered to the state actually being given so far — leaving close to 2 million doses apparently stored in freezers and awaiting recipients,” The Chronicle notes, adding that the state’s ineptitude in vaccinating its residents is “putting the nation’s largest state far behind West Virginia, the Dakotas and most other states in the proportion of population that has been vaccinated.”

The method California uses to distribute vaccines is this: the state has 58 local health departments and three city health departments; sometimes the local health department schedules vaccine appointments, but private providers also offer vaccines. According to the California Department of Public Health, they do not ever possess the vaccines; instead, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine doses are sent to the county health departments and large health care providers.
The counties and big health systems order from the state, which in turn transfers the requests to the federal government. “The federal government decides how many doses it will allocate each state, and directs the manufacturers and distributors to ship doses accordingly. The state allocates doses to the counties and health systems; the counties deliver vaccine to some smaller local providers or give the shots at community clinics,” the Chronicle writes, adding, “… the state has provided little transparency about the number of doses delivered to and administered by each provider. That makes it difficult to pinpoint where exactly the unused doses are.”
As some private providers are allocated vaccines directly by the state, some counties are unaware how many vaccines the private providers have obtained.

Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian stated, “Is it any wonder, given the Rube Goldberg contraption that’s been designed for (vaccine) delivery, that people are confused and uncertain about where the next doses comes from? To call it convoluted is an understatement. … The system is built in a way that does not provide for accountability. Everybody has somebody else to blame, and that is not serving us well at this particular time. In order for the system to work there has to be simplicity and convenience. And so far we’ve seen precious little of either.”



Sounds like the good County Supervisor is speaking directly to you, Unchained. But, ya know, it's all on BOM.


Probably all New Yorkers;

‘Vaccine tourism’: People are flying to Florida for COVID-19 vaccine shots

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/vaccine-tourism-people-are-flying-florida-covid-19-vaccine-shots/XYH5CUZ7FFEKNKQD55TWLKIAAI/
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Fault of BOM, fer shure.

A drug that could protect high-risk Covid-19 patients from developing severe illness is sitting on shelves unused as a record number of people are hospitalized in the U.S.

On Thursday, public health officials at the federal and state levels pleaded with the country to take advantage of its vast supply of monoclonal antibody treatments, the only available therapy that can potentially keep patients out of the hospital.


https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/monoclonal-antibodies-could-ease-record-covid-hospitalizations-why-are-they-n1254271?cid=eml_nbn_20210115
 
Many parents are 100% sure that their kids got autism from vaccines. With all due respect, I don't care what the wife thinks about something she can't possibly know. In the NYT article, Spivak says that his opinion is based on the wife's account, not medical records. It was also noted that he was not involved in the case. He can speculate, but it should be clear what his speculation is based on.
I understand - but the point I want to emphasize is the language used by Spivak clearly stating that he believes it's a "medical certainty" that the vaccine caused Micheals' death. That's very strong language - would you make a bold statement like that if you weren't 100% sure of your conclusion?

You are not an antivaxxer, you just post exclusively about reasons not to get vaccinated. I understand why you want to reside in a space where those are functionally different positions. In that same space, you can also call yourself 'pro vaccine choice' while simultaneously advocating to halt Covid vaccination, stripping choice from 330 million people. I don't know where you post, but I doubt this forum is going to indulge those facile rationalizations.
C'mon now, enough of the sarcasm...I'm not an antivaxxer. My son had all his childhood immunizations - he's an adult now and can make his own decision on vaccines. I'm a baby boomer and had the mumps, measles, chickenpox and all that as a child. I had a tetanus shot a few years ago that was given during medical treatment for a car accident. I don't take the flu shot due to having a bad reaction to one several years ago. I'm an advocate of a healthy lifestyle - nutritionally sound food, excercise, vitamin D, etc., to build & maintain a healthy immune system. If that's upsetting & annoying to some people here then so be it.

My concern is with the safety of these Covid vaccines. I have posted several links from qualified researchers and medical authorities who have articulated their concerns. Of course, these scientists & doctors are not going to be popular with the vaccine manufacturers, the CDC, dept of health officials and Fauci who are only enamored with getting the vaccine out to the people as quickly as possible regardless of any safety concerns. All I've heard Fauci say is they need to aggressively vaccinate a high percentage of people (~75%) to achieve immunity. I've never heard him have more of a benevolent approach stating something like the vaccine is completely optional and those who don't want the vaccine have that right to decline and shouldn't be coerced into taking it.

And factor in the digital Covid vaccination passport that's currently being designed with the anticipation that governments, airlines & other businesses may want to utilize in requiring proof of vaccination:


If this the direction that society is going then so much for having a choice on declining the vaccine. You can forget any informed consent, and requiring vaccination to patronize businesses and government services would amount to a "forced medical procedure" stance. And if you were to suffer a serious adverse event and you can't sue the manufacturers because of product liability protection...then what? Just chalk it off to bad luck and deal with it while the vaccine manufacturers smugly say; sorry...not my problem.

I know you despise Sucharit Bhakdi - but he is an award-winning researcher who is more than qualified to have a professional opinion & views on the danger of these Covid vaccines. This is a recent interview that I found informative and reassures my safety concerns with the vaccines. I'm sure you'll immediately dismiss him with your contemptuous attitude and ad hominem attacks without probably even listening to the entire interview:

View: https://youtu.be/6k6ipXD3eMM


Also, this BMJ paper is interesting and you may have already commented on it:

"Will Covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren't designed to tell us."


Btw, I'm not playing "games" - I'm legitimately concerned about the safety of these vaccines and the possibility of eventual forced vaccination.
 
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C'mon now, enough of the sarcasm...I'm not an antivaxxer.

Btw, I'm not playing "games" - I'm legitimately concerned about the safety of these vaccines and the possibility of eventual forced vaccination.
It is hard to take these claims at face value when they sandwich a post that features a video segment from Del Bigtree. Are we going to argue that Bigtree is not an antivaxxer? If you are genuinely not against vaccination, you should look up some of these characters. He produced the seminal anti-vaxx video with Wakefield. If you don't see their game, I legitimately can't help you at this stage.


As for the vaccine passport, last I heard that the new US policy is that vaccination is not sufficient to travel back to the US from any countries abroad starting later this month. You still need to obtain a negative test to board a flight. The rationale for that is that being vaccinated does not equate to being non-contagious. Still too early to tell on that front.

 
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Chris Gadsden

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But then there's the reset to consider... some sacrifice will have to be made.


Table 8 provides the respective numbers for the overall population and the different groups identified based on race and gender. For the overall population, the increase in the death rate following the COVID-19 pandemic implies a staggering 0.89 and 1.37 million excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. For African-Americans, we estimate 180 thousand and 270 thousand excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. For White, we estimate 0.82 and 1.21 million excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. These numbers are roughly equally split between men and women. These numbers indicate that the consequences of the pandemic might go well beyond the deaths directly caused by the disease. While the extent of the long-term excess mortality related to coronavirus crisis is staggering, several considerations are in order. First, the additional number of lives that would have been lost secondary to COVID-19 acute illness and health care resources exhaustion if lockdowns had not been implemented is estimated to be over 100,000 in the US alone, Fothergill et al. (1999), Stone (2020), and Emanuel et al. (2020). Second, our analysis makes a number of implicit assumptions based on historical data regarding the time and severity of the recession. It is important to keep in mind the significant amount of uncertainty around this variable.

It is possible that the economy will recover faster than in the past. Furthermore, a shift in economic and social politics can drastically affect the duration and severity of the recession, and consequently modify our excess mortality estimates, Bianchi and Melosi (2017). Third, based on emerging data, it is likely that the limited access to health care during the lockdown, temporary discontinuation of preventive care interventions, massive loss of employer-provided health insurance coverage, and the lingering concern of the population about seeking medical care out to fear of contracting COVID-19 will impact mortality rate and life expectancy even more severely, Garfield et al. (2020) and Sharpless (2020). Fourth, this is the first recession with the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in place, a critical resource to mitigate the effects of unemployment on citizens well-being, see Gruber and Sommers (2020). Our results have three important policy implications. First, it would be desirable to study and implement health policy measures to guarantee activities remain open with minimal risks to workers and public, whenever possible.


Second, it is of utmost importance to facilitate routine preventive care and health care access for the whole US population, including the over 20 million Americans who lost employer-provided health care coverage, Garfield et al. (2020) and Gruber and Sommers (2020). Third, policy interventions meant to reduce the economic impact of the recession are likely to also contribute to save lives.

5 Conclusion

We examine the historical relation between life-expectancy, death-rates, and unemployment for the overall US population and groups organized based on race and gender. We use a VAR that allows for observation errors and we find that increases in unemployment are followed by statistically significant increases in death rates and declines in life-expectancy. A sizable fraction of the variation of these two variables can be accounted by unemployment shocks. We then use this historical relation to form predictions about the potential impact of the recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic on human health. Our results suggest that the toll of lives claimed by the SARS-CoV-2 virus far exceeds those immediately related to the acute COVID-19 critical illness and that the recession caused by the pandemic can jeopardize population health for the next two decades. Based on our findings, African American citizens and women will be suffering more profoundly from the coronavirus-driven recession, adding on to their disproportionate adverse outcome in the setting of acute SARS-CoV-2 infection, Garg et al. (2020). Based on our findings, large, sustained and swift government maneuvers to support the currently unemployed labor force and to abate unemployment will be as equally important as the massive efforts focused on limiting and eventually eradicating transmission of SARS-CoV-2 with effective vaccination strategies that are finally into place.



This -literally- was so knowable on the front end. There's exactly nothing here that is surprising in the least. This science is so easily cast aside because it does not line up with objective outcomes while at the same time giving some validity to BOM's concerns. So, of course, these conclusions and those who came to them must be destroyed.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w28304/w28304.pdf
 

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