Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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J&J vaccinations are now paused in US due to clotting issues. 6 cases among 7 million doses given with all the cases occurring in females aged 18-48. Slightly different features from AZ, but they use a very similar platform and antigen, so this is not totally unexpected. There is going to be a regulatory meeting tomorrow about what to do moving forward.


Hmmm....really interesting. The skew towards females 18-48 really looks like an autoimmune response. Most autoimmune reactions are similarly skewed.

View: https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1381979486753800195
 
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You're too silly!
I'm "too silly?" What's so "silly" about a middle-aged guy excited to get his J&J vaccine because it's a "one and done." vaccine? Now he's fighting for his life because the vaccine fail to deliver the protection it's been so aggressively marketed for. And according to the guy's wife, the whole family, their sons & grandchildren were infected by him.

Furthermore, it looks like 62 million doses of J&J vaccines may be contaminated; millions of doses were ruined by mixing ingredients incorrectly:


"Johnson & Johnson vaccines delayed due to contamination."


Since you're profoundly pro-vaxx and an ardent supporter of everyone being compelled to take the vaccine, I would think you'd be livid at this colossal screw-up by J&J. Since these vaccines are being aggressively marketed and the unvaccinated are being shamed & condemned, there can be no margin of error. The pharma companies can't afford any contamination issues, manufacturing defects, serious adverse event problems, etc., or more & more people are just going to flat out refuse to take the vaccines. And this doesn't do anything to restore confidence of the many Americans who are indecisive on taking the vaccine.
 
They opened new category in Slovakia. 40+. We catch UK but unfortunetely only in this one parameter and I dont think it is good at all. Maybe it is bad vaccination strategy. 60+ mRNA vaccines others AZ. Lot of people waiting for different vaccine. In my department 10 people were offered to get AZ. As I know I am only one ( or maybe another one collegue in his 40ties is) Others waiting. Ok young people in their 30ties, 40ties can wait. But old people waiting for what exactly? My aunt in her sixties told "I will wait after Easter". Well she get Covid. Thank god mild symptoms.
 
Wow!...this is shocking considering the source:

"CNN's Sanjay Gupta breaks with his network and BACKS former CDC director Robert Redfield's "informed" theory that COVID escaped from Wahun lab as "simplest explanation."


Gupta is CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent who's held in high esteem by his colleagues. He was CNN's "go to guy" from the initial stages of the pandemic last spring all through the year up to this point in time. He became a household name with the CNN followers. I can't tell you the number of debates/discussions I got into with some of my Leftist relatives & acquaintances, who always referred to Gupta as their primary source of information on the pandemic. I wonder what this will do to his reputation now? Lol.
 
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Well, I think Sanjay is the one of the most informed medical experts on cable news. (Faint praise?) However, I don't think his rationale here is very sound.
“He’s an experienced virologist. He was also head of the CDC at the time this was happening, which means that in addition to everything that we know, he had access to raw data and raw intelligence that was coming out of China,” Gupta told me. “My point is that it’s a much more informed sort of thing for him to be saying than for anybody who may have expertise in virology, because he has a lot more knowledge and information that he has that maybe he can’t share, but is informing his opinion.”
If your best evidence is an insinuation of the existence of evidence that conveniently can't be shared.... IDK... but maybe that is not the most likely answer. Especially laughable is the notion that we would not share evidence implicating China if we had it. Like why would we be withholding that? It makes no sense. He later falls into the trope that the proximity to Wuhan is a red flag. I have made the point before, but you could make the exact same argument about the Reston Ebolavirus outbreak and USAMRIID.
“It’s a big virology lab right in Wuhan that happened to be studying bat coronaviruses. Just from an Occam’s razor standpoint, finding the simplest explanation, it would make sense,” he said, adding, “We still don’t know for certain what the origin is.”
And TBH, he really doesn't back the theory*, only suggests that it is possible like we all have. People with more specific training in virology are less enamored with the lab theory. Occam's razor at this point suggests natural origin like SARS1.0 and numerous other viral outbreaks like MERS, Ebola , Marburg, or Nipah. Zoonotic infections are not super rare occurrences.

*People should note that the google article is actually a tabloid link, so accuracy not required.

ETA. For people who think finding the virus in the wild would be an easy undertaking. We still haven't conclusively found the viral reservoir for Ebola and people have been hunting for that for decades.
 
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I liked it better when Nomad was just disingenuous.

The tabloid link stretches what Gupta said and then Nomad stretched it even more. I encourage everyone to find a better source to read about his.

-Gupta is a neurosurgeon not an epidemiologist/virologist.
-He is referring to an interview he did with Redfield.
--“My point is that it’s a much more informed sort of thing for him to be saying than for anybody who may have expertise in virology, because he has a lot more knowledge and information that he has that maybe he can’t share, but is informing his opinion,” he said, adding, “It’s still an opinion.”

I still think that the lab is one of the places that should continue to be considered a possible source as we continue to look for answers.

EDIT: Sanjay shouldn't be anyone's primary source for disease information beyond general, basic info.
 
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Well, I think Sanjay is the one of the most informed medical experts on cable news. (Faint praise?) However, I don't think his rationale here is very sound.
If your best evidence is an insinuation of the existence of evidence that conveniently can't be shared.... IDK... but maybe that is not the most likely answer. Especially laughable is the notion that we would not share evidence implicating China if we had it. Like why would we be withholding that? It makes no sense. He later falls into the trope that the proximity to Wuhan is a red flag. I have made the point before, but you could make the exact same argument about the Reston Ebolavirus outbreak and USAMRIID. And TBH, he really doesn't back the theory*, only suggests that it is possible like we all have. People with more specific training in virology are less enamored with the lab theory. Occam's razor at this point suggests natural origin like SARS1.0 and numerous other viral outbreaks like MERS, Ebola , Marburg, or Nipah. Zoonotic infections are not super rare occurrences.

*People should note that the google article is actually a tabloid link, so accuracy not required.

ETA. For people who think finding the virus in the wild would be an easy undertaking. We still haven't conclusively found the viral reservoir for Ebola and people have been hunting for that for decades.
I'm OK with someone like Redfield keeping information to himself for now, but it doesn't even seem like Gupta is sure that is the case, "maybe he has information he can't share". Maybe Gupta knows this, maybe Gupta assumes this.
 
I'm OK with someone like Redfield keeping information to himself for now, but it doesn't even seem like Gupta is sure that is the case, "maybe he has information he can't share". Maybe Gupta knows this, maybe Gupta assumes this.
Ironically, quite possibly something he heard while watching CNN himself. It just goes to show that people should watch less cable news and seeing their collective ratings plummet is maybe one of the most positive aspects of 2021 that is not related to vaccines.
I missed this segment posted below, but it is pure brain worms. I think this is the segment that incepted Camerota with the idea of lab accident before I started watching. Of course, Rogin's main claim is that Redfield has seen evidence that can't be released to the public. Very convenient. Who can you trust more than the guy who wrote.... <looks at notes>... "Chaos Under Heaven: Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the 21st Century".
View: https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1376517957656936449
 
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I'm "too silly?" What's so "silly" about a middle-aged guy excited to get his J&J vaccine because it's a "one and done." vaccine? Now he's fighting for his life because the vaccine fail to deliver the protection it's been so aggressively marketed for. And according to the guy's wife, the whole family, their sons & grandchildren were infected by him.

Furthermore, it looks like 62 million doses of J&J vaccines may be contaminated; millions of doses were ruined by mixing ingredients incorrectly:


"Johnson & Johnson vaccines delayed due to contamination."


Since you're profoundly pro-vaxx and an ardent supporter of everyone being compelled to take the vaccine, I would think you'd be livid at this colossal screw-up by J&J. Since these vaccines are being aggressively marketed and the unvaccinated are being shamed & condemned, there can be no margin of error. The pharma companies can't afford any contamination issues, manufacturing defects, serious adverse event problems, etc., or more & more people are just going to flat out refuse to take the vaccines. And this doesn't do anything to restore confidence of the many Americans who are indecisive on taking the vaccine.
None of the vaccines promise 100% immunity. Anyone who expects that is not paying attention. How do we know that the grandkids didn't infect the grandparents? How do we know how careful they were being? Were they wearing masks? EDIT: Both of them have the worst multiplier condition that makes COVID worse.

The J&J contamination is a mess, but they caught it. Its OK if this makes you feel better about letting others do the heavy lifting for you. Just for fun you should check out the millions of success stories to put your 1:10,000,000 case in perspective.

EDIT: If you are concerned about 1:1,000,000 things like this, you should stop driving, stop going to the gym, stop riding a bike, stop tri because all of them have a greater risk of causing death.
 
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The status in Monterrey, Nuevo Leon,Mexico is green..everything is open and masks are still mandated. Same as the rest of Mexico..you get a squirt of involuntary hand sanitizer,must step on a mooshy wet mat of shoe disinfectant and get your temperature taken..Tables are spaced out..ate sushi,gyros, suizas and breakfast..most places are full to 50% capacity.
There is a big park,Foundadores, and a big arena that are repurposed for drive through Covid vaccines. 2 right lanes of a big road merge freeway and you are in your car in line for a shot..as if you are tailgating..after the shot you pull into the parking area for @15 minutes and wait for the ok to leave..
it's pretty much bumper to bumper every time I have driven by..
 
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Don't forget the 5G impact!
AT&T has started sending me warning messages about my phone becoming suddenly obsolete in February 2022, when they switch over to 5G..I signed up for Covid vaccine availability..AT&T didn't get me the messages..I called the VA..on the phone,got my first Pfizer shot same day..my appointment was at 2..was in my car driving away at 2:16..w the mandatory 15 minutes of observation for adverse reaction..super organized and easy..
AT&T ,I am predicting will make effects of Covid last longer,be more severe and overall irritate anybody who has their service..worst phone carrier in my opinion..watch John Oliver make jokes and I don't laugh waiting for my contract to expire
 
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This is getting ridiculous with these vaccines. A 52 yr old man in critical condition from Covid after receiving the J&J vaccine:

"Man in hospital with Covid-19 after receiving Johnson & Johnson vaccine."


This is actually pretty sad as the prognosis doesn't sound good for this guy. Imagine the joy & relief of finally receiving your Covid vaccine. You're happy, joyful & much relieved that the vaccine that so you eagerly waited for is going to protect you from getting Covid or at least becoming serious ill from an infection. But 5 weeks later you contract the virus and are now fighting for your life.

Deplorable!...and this one of the reasons I'm not interested in these vaccines!
This is the prime example why it is so important that as many as possible get vaccinated. There will always be people who cannot defend themselves against the virus even if vaccinated, for example because their immune system is weakened. If enough people around them are vaccinated, the virus will not circulate anymore and these people are also protected (indirectly by the vaccine). So if you hesitate to get vaccinated because you think that the virus will not harm you this story is an argument for taking the vaccine. It was never so easy to save other lives.

I know that these sentences will not change your attitude, that is fine. But maybe it helps you a little to understand the other point of view.
 
None of the vaccines promise 100% immunity. Anyone who expects that is not paying attention. How do we know that the grandkids didn't infect the grandparents? How do we know how careful they were being? Were they wearing masks? EDIT: Both of them have the worst multiplier condition that makes COVID worse.

The J&J contamination is a mess, but they caught it. Its OK if this makes you feel better about letting others do the heavy lifting for you. Just for fun you should check out the millions of success stories to put your 1:10,000,000 case in perspective.

EDIT: If you are concerned about 1:1,000,000 things like this, you should stop driving, stop going to the gym, stop riding a bike, stop tri because all of them have a great risk of causing death.
I'm not concerned about the vaccine not providing 100% immunity. I posted this story because I think it's sad that so many people put all of their faith & trust in a vaccine that may not provide full protection, as it apparently didn't in this case. Perhaps, in addition to taking the Covid vaccine, some of these people should work on improving their health and strengthening their immune system through lifestyle changes, better nutrition & excercise - all things that I posted about previously.

Yes, there appears to be millions of success stories but there's also many not so successful stories: tens of thousands of adverse events and 2000+ deaths from VAERS vaccine injury reports so far:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1381596767964307462


You really need to quit being so imperious with people declining the vaccine and respect the fundamental principle of people making their own medical & personal decisions.

At the gym where I spend a significant amount of time at these days, there's a lot of discussion over this vaccine issue. Many people have taken (the first dose mainly) or are planning on taking the vaccine while conversely others are not. One of the strongest guys that I occasionally work out with (a former power-5 conference football player & now a competitive powerlifter) took his first dose last week. He said he was pressured by his employer plus the company was offering a bonus. He asked me if I was taking it and of course, I said no. He says "that's cool bro...and I respect your decision" (the guy is half my age. Lol). No conflict, hostilities or disrespect. Others in the gym have ask me the same question and most say they're "okay" with my decision adding that I have my own right to decide.

And surprisingly there are some Democrats or unaffiliated that voted for Biden who aren't taking the vaccine. One of our bodybuilders and a Biden supporter, told me she's not taking the vaccine because she's concerned about the lack of long-term safety data as well as the side-effects. There's even a old gym rat - a 75 yr old everyday workout guy (Biden supporter also) who said he's probably not interested in the vaccine nor concerned about getting infected (he says when it's his time to go...it's his time to go. Lol). So, it's not just conservatives, Libertarians, Trump supporters, conspiracy theorists, RFK, jr fans or whatever characterization you want that aren't interested in the vaccine.

But the problem I see moving forward is that "informed consent" and excercising a personal freedom to decline a medical intervention isn't going to be good enough as the Biden administration is spending 1.5 billion toward an aggressive campaign in persuading (more like coercing, IMO) people into taking the vaccine:


"This television, radio, and digital advertising blitz, set to kick off within weeks, will focus on Americans outright skeptical of vaccines’ safety or effectiveness as well as those who are potentially more willing to seek a Covid-19 immunization but don’t yet know where, when, or how. Specifically, the campaign will target three groups in which access, apathy, or outright skepticism may pose a barrier to vaccinations: young people, people of color, and conservatives, according to a Biden aide. Congress and the administration have set aside over $1.5 billion for the effort."
 
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Worth pointing out that VAERS reports are not remotely accurate no matter what RFKjr tells you. The vaccine has not killed 2000+ people by any unbiased analysis.

The whole VAERS genre of reporting that RFKjr and Berenson have run with over the last months can be summed up in one simple phrase. 'State a fact, imply a falsehood.'
 
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I'm not concerned about the vaccine not providing 100% immunity. I posted this story because I think it's sad that so many people put all of their faith & trust in a vaccine that may not provide full protection, as it apparently didn't in this case. Perhaps, in addition to taking the Covid vaccine, some of these people should work on improving their health and strengthening their immune system through lifestyle changes, better nutrition & excercise - all things that I posted about previously.

Yes, there appears to be millions of success stories but there's also many not so successful stories: tens of thousands of adverse events and 2000+ deaths from VAERS vaccine injury reports so far:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1381596767964307462


You really need to quit being so imperious with people declining the vaccine and respect the fundamental principle of people making their own medical & personal decisions.

At the gym where I spend a significant amount of time at these days, there's a lot of discussion over this vaccine issue. Many people have taken (the first dose mainly) or are planning on taking the vaccine while conversely others are not. One of the strongest guys that I occasionally work out with (a former power-5 conference football player & now a competitive powerlifter) took his first dose last week. He said he was pressured by his employer plus the company was offering a bonus. He asked me if I was taking it and of course, I said no. He says "that's cool bro...and I respect your decision" (the guy is half my age. Lol). No conflict, hostilities or disrespect. Others in the gym have ask me the same question and most say they're "okay" with my decision adding that I have my own right to decide.

And surprisingly there are some Democrats or unaffiliated that voted for Biden who aren't taking the vaccine. One of our bodybuilders and a Biden supporter, told me she's not taking the vaccine because she's concerned about the lack of long-term safety data as well as the side-effects. There's even a old gym rat - a 75 yr old everyday workout guy (Biden supporter also) who said he's probably not interested in the vaccine nor concerned about getting infected (he says when it's his time to go...it's his time to go. Lol). So, it's not just conservatives, Libertarians, Trump supporters, conspiracy theorists, RFK, jr fans or whatever characterization you want that aren't interested in the vaccine.

But the problem I see moving forward is that "informed consent" and excercising a personal freedom to decline a medical intervention isn't going to be good enough as the Biden administration is spending 1.5 billion toward an aggressive campaign in persuading (more like coercing, IMO) people into taking the vaccine:


"This television, radio, and digital advertising blitz, set to kick off within weeks, will focus on Americans outright skeptical of vaccines’ safety or effectiveness as well as those who are potentially more willing to seek a Covid-19 immunization but don’t yet know where, when, or how. Specifically, the campaign will target three groups in which access, apathy, or outright skepticism may pose a barrier to vaccinations: young people, people of color, and conservatives, according to a Biden aide. Congress and the administration have set aside over $1.5 billion for the effort."
Yes, its your decision, but your decision affects others. Its your decision to drink and drive, your decision to shoot a gun into a crowded room... Its not like you are deciding to to have pasta salad instead of green salad, Scott or Giant, football or football... You are correct I don't respect the fundamental principle of selfishness.

Its hard to take you seriously when you went from disingenuous, to misinformation, to full on disinformation as your sources to make your points. Plus you are way to reliant on 'political sides'.
 
Mod hat on:

Can you please keep the political commentary out of this discussion. We're not going to go through posts and try and determine what is and isn't political, if we see people's party affiliations mentioned it's likely to earn you a ban.

Cheers,

KB.
 
This is worth mentioning when comparing efficacy rates of the different vaccines. In all cases, the phase III trials didn't use the same control groups, making it somewhat dubious to really compare the vaccines head to head, especially when separated by just a few percentage points. So, it will be interesting to see more of these studies that are comparing the vaccines under similar conditions. Also noteworthy that ~10% of these elderly people did not generate detectable antibodies, underscoring this excellent post from yesterday.

This is the prime example why it is so important that as many as possible get vaccinated. There will always be people who cannot defend themselves against the virus even if vaccinated, for example because their immune system is weakened. If enough people around them are vaccinated, the virus will not circulate anymore and these people are also protected (indirectly by the vaccine). So if you hesitate to get vaccinated because you think that the virus will not harm you this story is an argument for taking the vaccine. It was never so easy to save other lives.

I know that these sentences will not change your attitude, that is fine. But maybe it helps you a little to understand the other point of view.
ETA. India.... wow...... Looked great in January and February, but now with 200k cases a day.

View: https://twitter.com/mikejohansenmd/status/1382687306096771080
 
Yes, its your decision, but your decision affects others. Its your decision to drink and drive, your decision to shoot a gun into a crowded room... Its not like you are deciding to to have pasta salad instead of green salad, Scott or Giant, football or football... You are correct I don't respect the fundamental principle of selfishness.

Its hard to take you seriously when you went from disingenuous, to misinformation, to full on disinformation as your sources to make your points. Plus you are way to reliant on 'political sides'.
I think you're being bombastic with those examples; drinking & driving is against the law, shooting into a crowded room is against the law. These are all crimes punishable by the law. Refusing to take any one of the Covid vaccines is not a crime as Congress hasn't passed any legislation that aware of making it a crime to refuse the vaccine.

My main platform on the vaccine issue is simply informed consent; the ethical & legal obligation of medical practitioners involving the independent & voluntary decision of any medical procedure or intervention.

The administration of a vaccine is a medical intervention and falls under informed consent. People don't even have to give a reason - you can simply say no and it ends there. Perhaps you don't respect the fundamental principles of freedom in this country? (there's a growing movement in this country that think Americans have too many freedoms and would like to see change).

I see the freedom to make your own medical decisions on what you do to your body free from coercion as a very precious right that protects the individual from oppressive government that would no doubt put power & control over individual freedom.

 

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