Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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There is some really good reading material in this thread back a few hundred pages ago. When it was operation warp speed some were saying vax should not have been the priority and treatements should. That was also back when a few of the more frequent posters here said the vax would take 2 years to 5. Almost like magic the opinions changed. Weird / Strange ? Xfiles type stuff.
Pfizer vaccine got fully approved August 23,2021..and according to Bob Woodward 's interview, those in the know,knew the dangers and were working on the vaccine at that time..so the @2 year timeline was pretty accurate..2-5 years is still fast by established standards..most vaccines over 10years before the use of new technologies and technique
 
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Pfizer vaccine got fully approved August 23,2021..and according to Bob Woodward 's interview, those in the know,knew the dangers and were working on the vaccine at that time..so the @2 year timeline was pretty accurate..2-5 years is still fast by established standards..most vaccines over 10years before the use of new technologies and technique
Operation Warp speed was anounced and started on May 15, 2020 the 2 year timeline min was off by 9 months if you are talking "fully approved". And WAY off with respect to getting it out to the people under an emergency. How can you even argue that? The facts are clear.
 
Operation Warp speed was anounced and started on May 15, 2020 the 2 year timeline min was off by 9 months if you are talking "fully approved". And WAY off with respect to getting it out to the people under an emergency. How can you even argue that? The facts are clear.
But what is your point? That people were dumb not to foresee that the vaccine wouldn't just be developed in record time, but twice as fast as what that record time was expected to be? That the fact that they guessed wrong suggests that no real vaccine could have been ready so soon, so this is all a hoax? That we all owe you 100 internets? I just don't get it.
 
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But what is your point? That people were dumb not to foresee that the vaccine wouldn't just be developed in record time, but twice as fast as what that record time was expected to be? That the fact that they guessed wrong suggests that no real vaccine could have been ready so soon, so this is all a hoax? That we all owe you 100 internets? I just don't get it.
No I took the vax its not a hoax in my opinion.

The point is - when one person was pushing the warp speed it was all doom and gloom and that guy is full of *** because its him and no vax has ever taken less than 5 years blah blah blah. Then the argument was even if they do get the vax I aint taking it because the bag man was pushing it. Now 15 months later some of the same people are pro vax and quickly forget the speed at which this shot was provided. No one owes me anything, not sure where the hostility comes from unless it touched a personal nerve as you might have been one of the folks saying it was going to take 5 years? I went back in the thread and don't remember reading any post that you had saying that.
 
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Lockdowns worked pretty well until Delta arrived on the scene. With Delta, lockdowns with low rates of vaccination was a huge problem and still is in some places.
The rates with strict lockdown vs less, very similar. Right now all the case rates , hospitalizations, deaths are way down in the areas it was up. Now the pandemic surge will be with the other areas that it easy in the summer? Seems like it.
Lockdowns and all the other crap did not work. Vax is the only solution that along with living your life.
 
Many people, including myself, made a BIG mistake by defending lockdowns in the first months.
Depends on how it is done, time scale, and political context. I think the lockdown from mid March to mid April in 2020 here in Denmark was quite successful (far more so than the approach in Sweden). With hindsight, it could have been better, but I'm most critical of the winter lockdown here (imposed too late and it was needlessly harsh on kids) when we were in a position where we should have known better.
 
Of course lockdowns worked, the effect was very significant here, even with Delta. One has to wonder though if it was necessary to do it as long as we (Germany) did it. (All in all we never had a hardcore lockdown like in Italy or France, but instead it lasted for over a year, with a kind of break in the summer.)

And now I honestly think we should get rid of pretty much all restrictions. Everyone who wanted to be vaccinated has been at this point. Still you need to wear masks at so many places (in addition to the obligation to be tested or vaccinated everywhere, from restaurants to schools to clubs and courses) - I can understand it in the public transport, but for instance I am not sympathetic to the pupils still having to wear them at school. I am among the very few ones here who see it that way though, most want to keep them and the school director said at least until christmas they will probably be kept - question is, how long do we want to keep that? Either you make vaccinations mandatory or there will always be unvaccinated people. Do we want to do this forever? They say it doesn't matter, but I think seeing someone's mimic is just different.
They also say well it keeps other infections away, like normal influenza, but at the same time there are waves of tough infections especially among children, which the hospitals notice now, because the children are not used to the small amounts or virus that are usually around.
At one point you have to get back to "normal", at least I don't want to have masks in every public indoor environment for the rest of my life, and I don't see what will have changed in a year or two, so why not now, when the vaccinations here are available for absolutely everyone?
I wish they would put as much an effort into other (health) areas where more can be gained by putting the same amount of money and time into it.
Everyone is still talking about the hospitals who could still be overwhelmed - but I think it would, if it came to that, be okay to tell people (adults) they cannot be treated in hospital because they are unvaccinated and there is no spot left.
 
Interesting case here with a DPD officer who claims a serious adverse event after taking the vaccine. What caught my attention is that the attorney representing the officer in a lawsuit against the city is saying that his client had recovered from a serious bout of Covid last year and had natural antibodies.


However, one thing that needs to be corrected is that the officer states that he was forced to take the mandated vaccine or lose his job. It's my understanding that when the City of Denver inacted the mandate, there were religious exemptions allowed. Those that applied & were granted the exemption would have to submit to weekly testing (I have a lady friend who works for the City of Denver and she was granted a religious exemption and already had her first weekly test).

Update on our family Covid situation: My 21 yr son finally took the IGG, IA antibody test through our health care provider. To his complete surprise, he was positive for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein antibodies. He had adamantly insisted that when he was sick, it was a sinus infection & mild bronchitis, hence he did not get tested & continued with his class schedule & training wearing his mask. Strangely, his symptoms were different than mine (he didn't lose his taste or smell nor have the fever, body aches or extreme fatigue I had) and were more like the common cold. Since he has mild asthma & a history of sinus infections, I thought it was possible he didn't have Covid. But it's conclusive now that he picked it up from the packed indoor concert he attended in late August & passed it on to me. Lol.

My recovery is just about complete - it's been about 3 weeks since the first onset of symptoms. I've gained most of my weight back that I lost (7 lbs) & all strength is back able to complete full weight training workouts. Endurance is good as I went on a really good hard core ride in the foothills over the weekend. I've also done some distance running with no problem. Still having a little trouble with taste & smell - but not affecting appetite.
 
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Of course lockdowns worked, the effect was very significant here, even with Delta. One has to wonder though if it was necessary to do it as long as we (Germany) did it. (All in all we never had a hardcore lockdown like in Italy or France, but instead it lasted for over a year, with a kind of break in the summer.)

And now I honestly think we should get rid of pretty much all restrictions. Everyone who wanted to be vaccinated has been at this point. Still you need to wear masks at so many places (in addition to the obligation to be tested or vaccinated everywhere, from restaurants to schools to clubs and courses) - I can understand it in the public transport, but for instance I am not sympathetic to the pupils still having to wear them at school. I am among the very few ones here who see it that way though, most want to keep them and the school director said at least until christmas they will probably be kept - question is, how long do we want to keep that? Either you make vaccinations mandatory or there will always be unvaccinated people. Do we want to do this forever? They say it doesn't matter, but I think seeing someone's mimic is just different.
They also say well it keeps other infections away, like normal influenza, but at the same time there are waves of tough infections especially among children, which the hospitals notice now, because the children are not used to the small amounts or virus that are usually around.
At one point you have to get back to "normal", at least I don't want to have masks in every public indoor environment for the rest of my life, and I don't see what will have changed in a year or two, so why not now, when the vaccinations here are available for absolutely everyone?
I wish they would put as much an effort into other (health) areas where more can be gained by putting the same amount of money and time into it.
Everyone is still talking about the hospitals who could still be overwhelmed - but I think it would, if it came to that, be okay to tell people (adults) they cannot be treated in hospital because they are unvaccinated and there is no spot left.
In the USA vaccinations aren't approved for elementary kids yet.
 
No I took the vax its not a hoax in my opinion.

The point is - when one person was pushing the warp speed it was all doom and gloom and that guy is full of *** because its him and no vax has ever taken less than 5 years blah blah blah. Then the argument was even if they do get the vax I aint taking it because the bag man was pushing it. Now 15 months later some of the same people are pro vax and quickly forget the speed at which this shot was provided. No one owes me anything, not sure where the hostility comes from unless it touched a personal nerve as you might have been one of the folks saying it was going to take 5 years? I went back in the thread and don't remember reading any post that you had saying that.
You are conflating a history we all witnessed. The hyped Warpspeed timeline was a political show and everyone knew it. We all hoped it would be properly vetted and come as soon as possible and responsible folks took the opportunity to vax as soon as allowed. This was a triumph of technology and science; not political will or opposing skepticism.
Fast forward to election 2020....the incumbent lost and patently refused to encourage his supporters to avoid Covid and pursue the vaccine he so lustily campaigned on. The result: more deaths in 2021 than 2020. What percentage of those fatalities and the many more to come because a certain political base is still waiting for "the science" and remains unvaxxed? That any politician or group of elected officials would remain mute, regardless of their political ambitions for the future in the face of facts is so wrong. That's why some folks take it personal and it's still out there.

My 10 year old grandson tested positive after spending a weekend with relatives that were vaxxed on physician's recommendation due to their vulnerable health profile. Their friends and outer family politically don't take it seriously at all and social drop-ins were the social order, apparently. This, after the family being careful for over a year. Fortunately his vaccinated parents and 13 year old brother are negative, quarantined and the younger kid is recovering from short-term symptoms. The list of contact folks is growing, too.
It could have turned out differently. Yeah, it can become real f*cking personal.
 
In the USA vaccinations aren't approved for elementary kids yet.
Here they aren't recommended for under 12 year olds yet, either. But the last article I read about infections in children said the risk for serious complications, hospitalisations or long covid (longer than 3 months) is super low for that age group, even if the children have cancer or another illness like that. (I haven't followed the discussion very closely anymore, but the article was based on statistics from doctors and hospitals and in a serious newspaper which usually advocates tough anti-corona measures, so I don't think it was nonsense.) The age factor really seems super-important. In the past pregnant women here were not supposed to get vaccinated but now it has been totally recommended for a few months and it's no problem getting an appointment anymore since the end of August. So... I am really for protecting the vulnerable, but if everyone who is in danger and would like to be protected is protected, and we are basically protecting those now who don't want to be protected... I think a certain awareness needs to be kept and tests should go on to track changes in the virus. People also should further be educated and encouraged to get vaccinated. But the people I know who don't want to get vaccinated here are... well, you won't change their mind any time soon. I have heard crazy stories by now, and there is just a will to believe what these people want to believe. I am not really willing to take many restrictions anymore for their sake for much longer, and they really don't want it either.
The other option in my eyes is to make vaccinations mandatory. But I think that wouldn't be a clever move, because it will make those people who oppose them mistrust politics, government and authorities even more. Personally I think they should be mandatory in certain jobs, like in health care and working with the elderly, but apart from that it should stay everybody's free decision - as long as there is no evidence that the virus is dangerous for children, that is.
(Ah, and about the infection of those who are vaccinated, well, at least from what I have read and hear all the time it's almost 100% unvaccinated in the hospitals. With booster shots it should not be a problem.)

The thing is that there are so many dangers in this world, some of them can be easily avoided or cured, but simply nobody cares about them (like hospital acquired infections, which at least in Germany are a huge problem), although there are definitely things that can be done about it if you put some effort and money into the system. But that is just not a topic that's big enough somehow, so all this constant staring at the corona infection numbers and keeping up measures seems a bit populist here to me at this point (since the support for that is still very high in our population).

There's also a difference in treatment of certain groups: Like I mentioned in the road racing section the measures in the Münsterland Giro were extensive (finish outside of the city, only 1000 people allowed in, only vaccinated, tested or recovered allowed, still having to wear masks although it was outside), while the Bayern Munich football stadium is now allowed with full capacity (when vaccinated and so on). Also, if you are vaccinated etc. you can go dancing in a club again without masks - but the pupils have to wear masks at school at the same time and the universities have not yet taken up full presence lessons. Which makes me think even more that these are more populist decisions, it's obviously easier to tell children they have to wear masks than risk upsetting football fans more.
 
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In the USA vaccinations aren't approved for elementary kids yet.
The virus is not dangerous for kids. The only danger is that they pass it on, but if every adult is vaccinated (or has had the chance to be vaccinated) then there should be no restrictions for kids.

This graph only goes down to the age of 30, but the trend is the same down to children. If vaccinated adults can return to normality, so can unvaccinated children. (Mind, I think it makes sense to vaccinate everyone, and given that 12 y.o. have no problems with the vaccine, I think it would be beneficial to extend who can be vaccinated downwards, step-by-step).

 
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It's a matter of proportions. Everything is dangerous, to some degree, but not everything is particularly dangerous.

Do you think vaccinated 30 y.o.s in a year from now should still be wearing masks? The virus will still be "dangerous" to them, and people will still die. Even hundreds.

I think the vaccine is all the action that needs to be taken at this point in time. As I wrote before, for kids as well.
 
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You are conflating a history we all witnessed. The hyped Warpspeed timeline was a political show and everyone knew it. We all hoped it would be properly vetted and come as soon as possible and responsible folks took the opportunity to vax as soon as allowed. This was a triumph of technology and science; not political will or opposing skepticism.
Fast forward to election 2020....the incumbent lost and patently refused to encourage his supporters to avoid Covid and pursue the vaccine he so lustily campaigned on. The result: more deaths in 2021 than 2020. What percentage of those fatalities and the many more to come because a certain political base is still waiting for "the science" and remains unvaxxed? That any politician or group of elected officials would remain mute, regardless of their political ambitions for the future in the face of facts is so wrong. That's why some folks take it personal and it's still out there.

My 10 year old grandson tested positive after spending a weekend with relatives that were vaxxed on physician's recommendation due to their vulnerable health profile. Their friends and outer family politically don't take it seriously at all and social drop-ins were the social order, apparently. This, after the family being careful for over a year. Fortunately his vaccinated parents and 13 year old brother are negative, quarantined and the younger kid is recovering from short-term symptoms. The list of contact folks is growing, too.
It could have turned out differently. Yeah, it can become real f*cking personal.
More people than not have taken the Vax. 75% or a little more is where the USA is at right now.
The warp speed plan was put in place and then mocked by one political side. I can't change the fact for you.
Covid vax is still a personal choice the same as the flu shot.
Most kids recover just fine. In fact as of today here are the death numbers since the pandemic was tracked.

2020/2021 0-17 years 499 deaths involving covid-19 58,167 Deaths from all causes
2020/2021 18-29 years 3,739 deaths involving covid-19 110,769 Deaths from all causes

I think the USA in most places have moved on and are living with the virus around us. Get the Vax be cautious and clean up after yourself. No one is paying fauci and his mouth any attention. The man is so random that its become a joke.
 
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The hundreds of dead kids would beg to differ that the virus was not dangerous to them. The majority of kids who were infected with polio also had no symptoms. Only a tiny minority ended up in iron lungs. I wonder how people would react to that type of infection. What percentage of kids is significant before you take action?
Numbers from the USA CDC
2020/2021 0-17 years 499 deaths involving covid-19 58,167 Deaths from all causes
2020/2021 18-29 years 3,739 deaths involving covid-19 110,769 Deaths from all causes

Maybe we should lockdown car travel and swimming pools for kids since it looks from those numbers it is dangerous to them.
Those numbers are for the entire year of 2020 and up to the present of 2021.
 

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