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I to am shaking my head at a complete misunderstanding of immunology, herd immunity and virus variants. Doing nothing was always an option. The virus is world wide, westerners,especially Americans in my opinion,need to consider the world wide response and consider what the US did previously and in the future. As data has grown,the messaging has not expanded proportionally. Is everyone at risk yes,but not equally. Race,sex,and health problems like obesity and diabetes look to be important precursors,and advanced age.
I wonder if you really,really have closed your eyes and imagined what a thinning of the herd immunity would look like in the United States, western Europe or Japan, China,ect. Historical photos of holocaust victims stacked like cord wood were hard for most to grasp without doing it on a world wide scale.
Dirt and others post about hospital capacity and staff being overwhelmed. In person interviews by the thousands,w doctors,nurses and staffers speaking often through tears about exhaustion,frustration,helplessness and failure, why are they not being listened to? Worse yet why are they considered liars and co conspirator participants? That is one facet disgusting on every level..Doctors saying this is what I need,for your survival and mind and reality show hosts telling a doctor or nurse in the trenches that they are whimps or are lying about the death,suffering and severity they are witnessing in person, and at immeasurable personal and professional costs.
We know what herd immunity looks like for ebola, AIDS, cancer, polio and other horrific things..why would anyone volunteer to re live that?
But the main point of everything, is a person's life who is at risk worth the rest of us taking actions to protect them? We see that many amongst us say absolutely not..their death and the pain of those left behind is the cost of doing business.
Listen to our doctors and nurses..believe them. Respect them.
Or the option to wait, 7-15 years for the herd to naturally thin,
700,000+ dead Americans and the ethics,the morality of intentionally not giving a f-ck is not discussed on scale.
Approached from the purely selfish 1st world economic perspective: the economic wreckage would impact every country and every demographic profile for at least a generation. We will need several years, if we beat this thing down, to determine that cost. Economically we're still in the early stage IMO. Maybe we can all go out and invent a new Crypto currency and print mint our own theoretical fortune in the meantime.
 
I agree and that's why people took smallpox and measles vaccines regardless of current exposures.
As a personal notation: just took my 65+ booster of Pfizer. The first two shots I had some soreness but aside from taking a planned lazier-than usual day; no other ill effects. This dose was fine day one, with a sleepless night. Day two started out fine so I did outdoor work but ended up with a sleepless night due to low oxygen uptake. I had to concentrate to breath and that restriction is not reassuring. Walking the dog today we had to stop several times and the light-headedness led to the pukey feeling. Very tough to get benefit from even a deep breath, yet no congestion or typical lung obstructions. I can only conclude that a full blown Covid infection would be a horrible way for a fitness trainee to suffer through, even a mild one.
My husband got his 3rd Pfizer dose on Friday. For him it's immune compromised reason. They sent him to get that shot then he went up for his first Chemo treatment. So far so good on handling both the 3rd dose of Pfizer and Chemo. He did also have Covid a year ago (mild case with long haul symptoms). Hopefully the issues from the 3rd dose your suffering from will clear up quickly.
 
Approached from the purely selfish 1st world economic perspective: the economic wreckage would impact every country and every demographic profile for at least a generation. We will need several years, if we beat this thing down, to determine that cost. Economically we're still in the early stage IMO. Maybe we can all go out and invent a new Crypto currency and print mint our own theoretical fortune in the meantime.
Print me some fortune would ya?! :)
 
-I clearly said that I hope disease acquired immunity protects people (that's 40+ million more people in the USA who are protected and dead ends for SC2). I already read the 10 month study that you shared and that's promising news. We already discussed the CC study here too. If you still follow Dr. Crotty et al you should read their research and the papers from other researchers that they share.
--I agreed with you several weeks ago that if there are 'passports', they should include all immunity as soon as they can decide on a level of protection that is scientifically supported (they are getting closer to determining that). EDIT: This will be tough internationally for a few years because every country might have their own number until international consensus can be reached.

-Fauci isn't the only voice (even when he's the one talking, there are other scientist behind him). Fauci isn't one of my sources of info very often because he has to make his comments public friendly. You spend a lot of time searching for one offs, but good science is when more and more scientist agree. When 95% (100s-1000s) of virologists agree on something, the musings of an ophthalmologist don't mean 'opinions are split'. Even if the general statement that 'disease acquired immunity is solid protection' (+/- to vaccine), do you really think that its 27% better than vaccine? That's absurd. Sure it could happen in isolated cases with lesser vaccines, but is DAI really 27% better than Moderna?

- Makary is at JH because he was in on (he may have been the lead?) the development of a cancer surgery technique that now saves 1000s of lives. He isn't there because of his research into pathogens. He could probably be a brilliant virologist (he might have one of those minds that would make him a brilliant whatever he wants to be) if that was his focus, but its not. Also if you read more of his opinions you will read that he got vaccinated and encourages others to do the same.

EDIT: I didn't actually watch the CNN interview, I read the quote from someone else who read the interview transcript, but Gupta and other docs like him are also too public friendly to use as 'sources'. I just thought that Fauci saying that its possible is interesting and encouraging.
I haven't read much from Dr. Crotty, but since you're recommending him I'll try to look at some of his research.

Here's another interesting study with natural immunity providing a wide range of protection:

"COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease:"


"Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective long-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study."

"Ahmed says investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survive COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity against some SARS-CoV-2 variants."


And of course, Makary is going to encourage others to take vaccine. He's an MD and I wouldn't expect him to discourage people from taking the vaccine and instead go get intentionally infected just to obtain natural immunity. That would be poor & dangerous medical advice. Also, Rand Paul (I know - your adversary. Lol) encourages people to take the vaccine as well despite his advocacy for those with natural immunity to be exempt from the mandates. He hasn't said whether or not he's taken the vaccine - he has had prior infection with the original strain back in 2020 (asymptomatic case I believe).

 
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My husband got his 3rd Pfizer dose on Friday. For him it's immune compromised reason. They sent him to get that shot then he went up for his first Chemo treatment. So far so good on handling both the 3rd dose of Pfizer and Chemo. He did also have Covid a year ago (mild case with long haul symptoms). Hopefully the issues from the 3rd dose your suffering from will clear up quickly.
Today is first morning after comfortable rest. My Grandson cake-walked through his encounter and all tested negative in the extended household, save for a few associated with other Grandparents that won't respond to outreach.
PS: Herd immunity is the collective immunity, right? Just dealing with "light" symptoms I can seriously recommend that nobody seek to get infected to join the herd. You can't know what the short/long term effects will be. Kinda like measles and other diseases that were long gone.
 
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I haven't read much from Dr. Crotty, but since you're recommending him I'll try to look at some of his research.

Here's another interesting study with natural immunity providing a wide range of protection:

"COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease:"


"Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective long-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study."

"Ahmed says investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survive COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity against some SARS-CoV-2 variants."


And of course, Makary is going to encourage others to take vaccine. He's an MD and I wouldn't expect him to discourage people from taking the vaccine and instead go get intentionally infected just to obtain natural immunity. That would be poor & dangerous medical advice. Also, Rand Paul (I know - your adversary. Lol) encourages people to take the vaccine as well despite his advocacy for those with natural immunity to be exempt from the mandates. He hasn't said whether or not he's taken the vaccine - he has had prior infection with the original strain back in 2020 (asymptomatic case I believe).

I thought that you were the one who originally brought the docs from the La jolla Institute to the forum, but maybe it was someone else.
 
Rand Paul (I know - your adversary. Lol) encourages people to take the vaccine as well despite his advocacy for those with natural immunity to be exempt from the mandates.
isn't that the case at all in the US? Over here in Germany (and I guess in most other European states as well?!), recovered poeple are treated equaly as vaccinated (currently for half a year after infection)
 
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Here's the US problem:

Trump, right-wingers praise anti-vax Southwest pilots — who turn out to be imaginary
Igor Derysh 2 hrs ago
http://a.msn.com/03/en-us/AAPqFHB?ocid=sf
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/small-plane-crashes-in-village-of-waukesha/ar-AAPqEsI
© Provided by Salon Ted Cruz; Donald Trump; Lauren Boebert
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Former President Trump and several right-wing Republican lawmakers claimed over the holiday weekend that hundreds of canceled and delayed Southwest Airlines flights resulted from pilots and other airline employees resisting vaccine mandates. But the airline, the pilots union and the FAA have all said that Southwest's vaccine requirements had nothing to do with this weekend's issues.
Southwest canceled more than 2,000 flights between Saturday and Monday and at least 1,400 other flights were delayed. The airline blamed severe weather, air traffic control staff shortages and a lack of hotel accommodations for employees for creating a cascading series of issues that led to inadequate staffing on more than one-fourth of Southwest's weekend flights. The union representing Southwest pilots blamed the airline's complicated technological system, which reassigns and reroutes pilots during disruptions, for causing a "domino effect" that forced the company to reassign more than 70% of its pilots over the weekend. Southwest saw a similar string of cancellations in June, which the airline later blamed on overly optimistic projections about how quickly it could scale up flights as passengers began to return over the summer.
This weekend's cancellations came just two days after the Southwest pilots' union asked a federal judge to block the company's vaccine mandate. Republican lawmakers, without evidence, quickly seized on an imaginary link, tying the travel chaos to the company's new policy and President Biden's call for a federal vaccine mandate.
"Joe Biden's illegal vaccine mandate at work. Suddenly, we're short on pilots & air traffic controllers," Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, declared on Twitter — while actually linking to a CNBC article that quoted an airline spokeswoman refuting his claim as an "unfounded rumor" and "inaccurate."
Rep. Lauren Boebert, R-Colo., claimed that Southwest employees were "standing up for their rights as Americans."
"You will NEVER be able to comply your way out of tyranny," she tweeted.
Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz., said he stands with Southwest employees who are "fighting against these mandates."
"This isn't about a vaccine, this is about freedom," he wrote.
"Shut them down," wrote Rep. Chip Roy, R-Texas.
Want a daily wrap-up of all the news and commentary Salon has to offer? Subscribe to our morning newsletter, Crash Course.
Donald Trump also sought to link the issues to vaccine mandates, as well as his endlessly repeated false claims about the 2020 election.
"I think it has a lot to do with a lot of things. I think it has something to do with the election that was rigged," he said in a radio interview this weekend. "I think these are big fans of your favorite president, I think that this has something to do with that. I think it has something to do with the ... I think it has a lot to do with mandates."
Donald Trump Jr., also amplified the baseless claim on Twitter, claiming that employees had gone on "strike" over the mandates.
Fox News host Tucker Carlson amplified these unfounded claims to his primetime audience, saying that the flight cancellations were the "direct consequence" of Biden's vaccine mandate.
But there's no evidence of a strike or sick-out by airline employees. The pilots' union has said that pilots called in sick at a normal rate over the weekend.
Asked how much the company's vaccine mandate contributed to the cancellations, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly told CNBC, "Zero."
Kelly said that the rate of employee absences over the weekend was "very normal."
"Understand how airlines work," he said. "When you get behind, it just takes several days to catch up."
The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association said on Saturday that "our pilots are not participating in any official or unofficial action."
"There are false claims of job actions by Southwest Pilots currently gaining traction on social media and making their way into mainstream news. I can say with certainty that there are no work slowdowns or sickouts either related to the recent mandatory vaccine mandate or otherwise," union president Casey Murray said in a statement on Sunday, pointing instead to severe weather in the southeast United States, staffing shortages and the company's operating system, which he said has become "subject to massive failures under the slightest pressure."
The union said last week that it does not oppose vaccines but filed a lawsuit to block the mandate because Southwest had not consulted employees before making the decision.
Murray told the Dallas Morning News that pilot sick rates over the weekend "were exactly in line with where they were all summer with the same kind of operational disasters."
Incoming Southwest CEO Bob Jordan last month blamed the company's months-long issues predating the vaccine mandates on staffing shortages stemming from the pandemic, when thousands of employees accepted buyouts, early retirements or long-term leave.
Southwest COO Mike Van de Ven said in a video to employees that despite "a very aggressive hiring plan ... we are still not where we want to be with staffing," especially pilots.
Industry experts blamed the company's "point-to-point route network" for making the airline more susceptible to widespread issues than other airlines. Delays cause cascading issues at each flight's additional stops and the airline had scheduled more flights than it could handle, Henry Harteveldt, president of the Atmosphere Research Group, told NBC News.
"You screw up Florida, you screw up their whole network a whole lot more because it's connected to the rest of their system. Once it gets screwed up, airplanes are out of place, crews are out of place," added Mike Boyd, an aviation consultant at Boyd Group International. "The crew gets stuck in Omaha and ran out of time, they should be in Orlando. Getting that squared away takes time."
Cruz ignored all of the contradictory evidence and statements from the airline, the pilots and the FAA — which also said there is no evidence that "this weekend's cancellations were related to vaccine mandates" — to accuse the media of Democratic propaganda when his baseless claim was widely fact-checked. He then claimed he had not meant Southwest employees but was referring to air traffic controllers in Jacksonville, where local aviation authorities reported staffing issues over the weekend.
But the statement he posted explicitly refuted the "rumor" that it was impacted by an "organized walkout late Friday by controllers in response to the FAA's mandate that all employees get vaccinated." Instead, it blamed staffing issues on "normal approved leave" and controllers who are required to stay at home for 48 hours after getting vaccinated.
"If you believe the pilots unions, MANY MORE FLIGHT CANCELLATIONS ARE COMING (and not just SWA) because of Biden's illegal vaccine mandate," Cruz wrote.
Nearly all major airlines have now required employees to be vaccinated without encountering the same problems as Southwest, where the issues have persisted for more than four years, according to the pilots' union. While Republicans continue to attack Biden for urging vaccine requirements, most voters support such mandates and data shows that compliance rates have been exceptionally high.
United Airlines, the first airline to require vaccines for employees at a time when its overall vaccination rate was below 70% in August, says that all but about 300 of the company's 67,000 employees have been vaccinated or granted exemptions, a rate of more than 99.5%.
"I did not appreciate the intensity of support for a vaccine mandate that existed, because you hear that loud anti-vax voice a lot more than you hear the people that want it," United CEO Scott Kirby told The New York Times. "But there are more of them. And they're just as intense."

Now,: New Jersey Net Kyrie Irving is looking like he'll forsake an estimated $17m wage rather than disclose or confirm his vaccination status.

Now: Texas Gov. Greg Abbot bans any vaccine requirements made by any organization or business in Texas. Southwest Airlines is Texas based.

Now: Texas Republican challenger to Abbot, Allen West has Covid. His wife has now taken the vaccine that he refused. He was projecting he'd require hospitalization and oxygen and will be taking hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin as treatment. He continues to avoid the vaccine because he wants to demonstrate his dedication to "choice" among voters. So he's taking a completely ineffective treatment to prove a point. This, in a state where several party executives and media personalities posting anti-vax messages have already died from the virus.
 
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Today is first morning after comfortable rest. My Grandson cake-walked through his encounter and all tested negative in the extended household, save for a few associated with other Grandparents that won't respond to outreach.
PS: Herd immunity is the collective immunity, right? Just dealing with "light" symptoms I can seriously recommend that nobody seek to get infected to join the herd. You can't know what the short/long term effects will be. Kinda like measles and other diseases that were long gone.
Glad the side effects are wearing off. My husband did end up with a sore arm for about 24 hours after the booster dose of Pfizer.
Yes herd immunity is collective immunity.
 
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Nah the problem is bringing politics into a Covid thread.
It's what people say and do. Dr. Fauci is now totally politicized and the lines drawn are clear. Common sense, concern for community and the basic survival instinct are subject to media impressions. My point isn't politics; it's the effect of what people say and do. People of influence and ambition are taking to the issue like it's wartime and getting into the battle is the only way to make a big promotion. It's a totally relevant contribution to continued infections where they are avoidable.
 
It's what people say and do. Dr. Fauci is now totally politicized and the lines drawn are clear. Common sense, concern for community and the basic survival instinct are subject to media impressions. My point isn't politics; it's the effect of what people say and do. People of influence and ambition are taking to the issue like it's wartime and getting into the battle is the only way to make a big promotion. It's a totally relevant contribution to continued infections where they are avoidable.
I expect there to be lawsuits against 'influential' people by family/loved ones of people who died because listening to those people caused their death.
 
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It's what people say and do. Dr. Fauci is now totally politicized and the lines drawn are clear. Common sense, concern for community and the basic survival instinct are subject to media impressions. My point isn't politics; it's the effect of what people say and do. People of influence and ambition are taking to the issue like it's wartime and getting into the battle is the only way to make a big promotion. It's a totally relevant contribution to continued infections where they are avoidable.
Yeah you brought politics in here. Terrible and I reported it. I hope someone will delete your post. You can be better I am sure.

Fauci? He is not relevant and is ignored now. What was it he said about Christmas and Halloween? I remember recently he mentioned football games were potential super spreader events. No data sugests that since they started the season. Even the exact oposite is happening throughout the south, the cases are coming down rapidly and yet they did not change a thing with mask mandates and lock downs.
 
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-I clearly said that I hope disease acquired immunity protects people (that's 40+ million more people in the USA who are protected and dead ends for SC2). I already read the 10 month study that you shared and that's promising news. We already discussed the CC study here too. If you still follow Dr. Crotty et al you should read their research and the papers from other researchers that they share.
--I agreed with you several weeks ago that if there are 'passports', they should include all immunity as soon as they can decide on a level of protection that is scientifically supported (they are getting closer to determining that). EDIT: This will be tough internationally for a few years because every country might have their own number until international consensus can be reached.

-Fauci isn't the only voice (even when he's the one talking, there are other scientist behind him). Fauci isn't one of my sources of info very often because he has to make his comments public friendly. You spend a lot of time searching for one offs, but good science is when more and more scientist agree. When 95% (100s-1000s) of virologists agree on something, the musings of an ophthalmologist don't mean 'opinions are split'. Even if the general statement that 'disease acquired immunity is solid protection' (+/- to vaccine), do you really think that its 27% better than vaccine? That's absurd. Sure it could happen in isolated cases with lesser vaccines, but is DAI really 27% better than Moderna?

- Makary is at JH because he was in on (he may have been the lead?) the development of a cancer surgery technique that now saves 1000s of lives. He isn't there because of his research into pathogens. He could probably be a brilliant virologist (he might have one of those minds that would make him a brilliant whatever he wants to be) if that was his focus, but its not. Also if you read more of his opinions you will read that he got vaccinated and encourages others to do the same.

EDIT: I didn't actually watch the CNN interview, I read the quote from someone else who read the interview transcript, but Gupta and other docs like him are also too public friendly to use as 'sources'. I just thought that Fauci saying that its possible is interesting and encouraging.
So is he using the 8 hospitalizations of vaccinated people vs. 1 hospitalization of previously infected people (out of 199 symptomatic infections)? Can that be extrapolated? I guess we'll have to wait and see what the peer review has to say...
 
Yeah you brought politics in here. Terrible and I reported it. I hope someone will delete your post. You can be better I am sure.

Fauci? He is not relevant and is ignored now. What was it he said about Christmas and Halloween? I remember recently he mentioned football games were potential super spreader events. No data sugests that since they started the season. Even the exact oposite is happening throughout the south, the cases are coming down rapidly and yet they did not change a thing with mask mandates and lock downs.
Yes, you did.
Then you bring up Dr. Fauci and "What was it he said about Christmas and Halloween?" The last few days he reportedly has said they should be safe, depending on regions and the same common sense approach. Then you added: "I remember recently he mentioned football games were potential super spreader events." Would you argue that large groups of at-risk people in closed spaces might pose a risk and using the word potential is an appropriate emphasis? Last time I was at a Seahawks game almost every mobility challenged and questionably unfit fan rode the elevators to their seat level. There are private boxes, shoulder-to-shoulder bathrooms and the general cattle herding to get to seats that represent very tight contact. I don't worry about myself; just wonder why my 10yr old Grandson got it (fortunately the little ones are virtually indestructable) and why some people in the circle he was exposed to refuse to even get tested once contacted.

Yesterday I had a lengthy catch-up phone call with a friend I've mentioned before. He started out saying he's been out of touch but has taken a "Deep Dive" into the world's state of affairs. His rant focused on the revolution coming in Australia (he scarcely knows which hemisphere it's in) due to the "kill switch vaccine" and "patriots" that are rioting to save their lives. It went downhill from there. He is very involved in a Christian church that has a lengthy history in vaccine resistance; long before Covid. I respect that devotion to a faith-based management of one's health as it usually has an implied consideration for those around you and an equal tolerance for those that chose other medical paths. How he got to the mindset he has was not something I wanted to discuss on the phone. Since then I've received texts for podcasts by Alex Jones and Michael Flynn which I asked my friend to stop forwarding just for internet security concerns alone. I've listened to both of these guys and they have an agenda that preceded Covid's outbreak, much like other political opportunists. I didn't make this situation political. It is what it is.

PS on Fauci: he helped the US effort to prevent the spread of Ebola and helped the fight against AIDS. His credentials are deep and he doesn't need the limelight and the heat he's drawn. He was represented as a heroic addition to Warpspeed and looked upon as the reliable US policy spokesperson for dealing with Covid mitigation. That is, until; he disagreed even slightly with the highly warped timeline and alternative medicine pronouncements from the Executive Branch. Then he's been labelled as evil, politically motivated (he's 80....how much political ambition would you think he would have?) and generally positioned as The Other by specific groups.

We have another Winter to endure and we now know the most at-risk profile of US citizens. They are un-vaccinated people; all of whom have the right to remain so and I'd fight for that right. They also have the responsibility to not precipitate infection to the unaware public like you and I. We'll see how the recovery plays out.

Smiley face...here.
 
Yes, you did.
Then you bring up Dr. Fauci and "What was it he said about Christmas and Halloween?" The last few days he reportedly has said they should be safe, depending on regions and the same common sense approach. Then you added: "I remember recently he mentioned football games were potential super spreader events." Would you argue that large groups of at-risk people in closed spaces might pose a risk and using the word potential is an appropriate emphasis? Last time I was at a Seahawks game almost every mobility challenged and questionably unfit fan rode the elevators to their seat level. There are private boxes, shoulder-to-shoulder bathrooms and the general cattle herding to get to seats that represent very tight contact. I don't worry about myself; just wonder why my 10yr old Grandson got it (fortunately the little ones are virtually indestructable) and why some people in the circle he was exposed to refuse to even get tested once contacted.

Yesterday I had a lengthy catch-up phone call with a friend I've mentioned before. He started out saying he's been out of touch but has taken a "Deep Dive" into the world's state of affairs. His rant focused on the revolution coming in Australia (he scarcely knows which hemisphere it's in) due to the "kill switch vaccine" and "patriots" that are rioting to save their lives. It went downhill from there. He is very involved in a Christian church that has a lengthy history in vaccine resistance; long before Covid. I respect that devotion to a faith-based management of one's health as it usually has an implied consideration for those around you and an equal tolerance for those that chose other medical paths. How he got to the mindset he has was not something I wanted to discuss on the phone. Since then I've received texts for podcasts by Alex Jones and Michael Flynn which I asked my friend to stop forwarding just for internet security concerns alone. I've listened to both of these guys and they have an agenda that preceded Covid's outbreak, much like other political opportunists. I didn't make this situation political. It is what it is.

PS on Fauci: he helped the US effort to prevent the spread of Ebola and helped the fight against AIDS. His credentials are deep and he doesn't need the limelight and the heat he's drawn. He was represented as a heroic addition to Warpspeed and looked upon as the reliable US policy spokesperson for dealing with Covid mitigation. That is, until; he disagreed even slightly with the highly warped timeline and alternative medicine pronouncements from the Executive Branch. Then he's been labelled as evil, politically motivated (he's 80....how much political ambition would you think he would have?) and generally positioned as The Other by specific groups.

We have another Winter to endure and we now know the most at-risk profile of US citizens. They are un-vaccinated people; all of whom have the right to remain so and I'd fight for that right. They also have the responsibility to not precipitate infection to the unaware public like you and I. We'll see how the recovery plays out.

Smiley face...here.
The only riots in Australia at the moment are the rush to get Christmas stuff at the supermarkets...........the pockets of ant vaxxers ply their trade online mostly, every day its a new rant or a story about an anti vaxxer who has regrets from the hospital bed.........
 
The only riots in Australia at the moment are the rush to get Christmas stuff at the supermarkets...........the pockets of ant vaxxers ply their trade online mostly, every day its a new rant or a story about an anti vaxxer who has regrets from the hospital bed.........
Funny what gets said about Australia overseas I was just about to post something similar to you. But I am reminded on here that two Pfizer shots is probably not our last.
 
Funny what gets said about Australia overseas I was just about to post something similar to you. But I am reminded on here that two Pfizer shots is probably not our last.
Well, see what happens in the northern hemisphere winter. Victoria is now going through what NSW went through with Delta. They have found a new variant but so far the effects haven't been documented. Hopefully the worst of it is over.
 
I wouldn't worry about the American cohort in this thread who have effectively hijacked discussion with their non-sensical posts in the last two or three months - In saying that, there is an anti-vax movement in Austalia like most countries in the world, which has manifested itself in protests from time to time, especially in Melbourne - Which is no surprise when Melbournian's have been locked down for close to ten months since March 2020 - Finally it's disappointing that the Aussie 'Summer of Cycling' has been cancelled because of unreasonable demands from Government/s, especially seeing Australia would have reached their vaccination targets.
 
I wouldn't worry about the American cohort in this thread who have effectively hijacked discussion with their non-sensical posts in the last two or three months - In saying that, there is an anti-vax movement in Austalia like most countries in the world, which has manifested itself in protests from time to time, especially in Melbourne - Which is no surprise when Melbournian's have been locked down for close to ten months since March 2020 - Finally it's disappointing that the Aussie 'Summer of Cycling' has been cancelled because of unreasonable demands from Government/s, especially seeing Australia would have reached their vaccination targets.
The odd thing about the cycling cancellations is that all of the football codes got played with full body contact...........SA plays socccr and AFL............while Victoria have the delta outbreak currently, no one expects it to last until late January when the Cadel Evans race is scheduled but I guess the field would be decimated without the TDU riders not attending
 
I wouldn't worry about the American cohort in this thread who have effectively hijacked discussion with their non-sensical posts in the last two or three months - In saying that, there is an anti-vax movement in Austalia like most countries in the world, which has manifested itself in protests from time to time, especially in Melbourne - Which is no surprise when Melbournian's have been locked down for close to ten months since March 2020 - Finally it's disappointing that the Aussie 'Summer of Cycling' has been cancelled because of unreasonable demands from Government/s, especially seeing Australia would have reached their vaccination targets.
Apparently Melbourne was the most lockdown city in the world? Frankly I find that a little embarrassing. They had some problems there last year but nothing compared to Europe or the US. Anyway, as movingtarget said hopefully the worst of it is over :weary:
 
The odd thing about the cycling cancellations is that all of the football codes got played with full body contact...........SA plays socccr and AFL............while Victoria have the delta outbreak currently, no one expects it to last until late January when the Cadel Evans race is scheduled but I guess the field would be decimated without the TDU riders not attending
The problem with the TDU was risk adverse SA Government - And of course the Sun Tour and Cadel's race flows on from the TDU. Anyway there will be no problem for the World's in Wollongong which I hope to attend.
 
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