Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[FrankB]

Who the F cares what your VO2 is?

I've been saying since summer that this was going to be a rough winter for the unvaccinated. People advocating against vaccination publicly are complicit in many deaths and are evil SOBs. If that offends your fragile sensibilities, idfc.

I have 6 employees with Covid right now, 5 vaccinated (and 4 of those are boosted), 1 unvaccinated.

 

[hrotha]

The whole "I'm pro vaccines, but [insert debunked anti-vaxx misinformation]" thing is getting old

 

[Nomad]

"Omicron is less severe because it does not infiltrate the lungs."

Weiterleitungshinweis

 

[Ultrairon]

The whole "I'm pro vaccines, but [insert debunked anti-vaxx misinformation]" thing is getting old

Never used that statement. I take all vax that are available.
What I have seen and its just really getting started to be said more now than before is that the vax is not what we told it would be. That is understandable considering the disease has changed. But the forcefulness of the message never changed, even when faced with the data.

 

[Cookster15]

Never used that statement. I take all vax that are available.
What I have seen and its just really getting started to be said more now than before is that the vax is not what we told it would be. That is understandable considering the disease has changed. But the forcefulness of the message never changed, even when faced with the data.

I am fully vaccinated but we should clarify, what are the vaccines supposed to do?

My understanding is the vaccine keeps more of us out of hospitals and off ventilators. I don't think it was ever said that getting vaccinated would prevent transmission (and getting infected) ?

Like you, I am also hearing from a lot of people here saying that we were misled because thousands are still getting infected. But does this really matter if you don't feel ill even if you are still infectious?

This is what I think is important in my country:
Current Cases Admitted to Hospital - COVID Live
Majority of Australia's Covid ICU patients have Delta not Omicron | Daily Mail Online

With the current omicron wave Australia is setting new records for infection but hospitalizations and ICU admissions are well within capacities or not even setting records compared to outgoing delta. For scale, the state of NSW (home of Sydney) has a population of about 8.2 Million.

 

[Koronin]

I am fully vaccinated but we should clarify, what are the vaccines supposed to do?

My understanding is the vaccine keeps more of us out of hospitals and off ventilators. I don't think it was ever said that getting vaccinated would prevent transmission (and getting infected) ?

Like you, I am also hearing from a lot of people here saying that we were misled because thousands are still getting infected. But does this really matter if you don't feel ill even if you are still infectious?

This is what I think is important in my country:
Current Cases Admitted to Hospital - COVID Live
Majority of Australia's Covid ICU patients have Delta not Omicron | Daily Mail Online

With the current omicron wave Australia is setting new records for infection but hospitalizations and ICU admissions are well within capacities or not even setting records compared to outgoing delta. For scale, the state of NSW (home of Sydney) has a population of about 8.2 Million.

Exactly. My understanding has always been that the vaccine is supposed to keep you from getting severe symptoms that would put you in the hospital. Based on that, it's working very well. Yes people with weakened or compromised immune symptoms are still going to have more problems.

 

[BlueRoads]

If there is proof that Omnicron is seriously less severe, please make sure our government gets the info...
I'm so tired of the talk of more and more restrictions here. I really want this to end.

 

[Cookster15]

This is an embarrassment to Australia. If vaccination does not prevent transmission why these ridiculous visa restrictions on Djokovic simply because he is unvaccinated? A while back poster suggested Australia had a small village mentality. Early and strict international border policy was the right approach pre vaccination which prevented disaster. But with nearly everyone fully vaccinated now this is ridiculous and embarrassing.

Novak Djokovic lands in Melbourne, but visa issues revealed as reason for delay in entry - ABC News

 

[jmdirt]

I am fully vaccinated but we should clarify, what are the vaccines supposed to do?

My understanding is the vaccine keeps more of us out of hospitals and off ventilators. I don't think it was ever said that getting vaccinated would prevent transmission (and getting infected) ?

Like you, I am also hearing from a lot of people here saying that we were misled because thousands are still getting infected. But does this really matter if you don't feel ill even if you are still infectious?

This is what I think is important in my country:
Current Cases Admitted to Hospital - COVID Live
Majority of Australia's Covid ICU patients have Delta not Omicron | Daily Mail Online

With the current omicron wave Australia is setting new records for infection but hospitalizations and ICU admissions are well within capacities or not even setting records compared to outgoing delta. For scale, the state of NSW (home of Sydney) has a population of about 8.2 Million.

I think that a lot of people thought that a vaccine was a magic force field. I'm not even sure why people got that false idea, because I have never heard anyone credible say that any vaccine is like a magic force field. Vaccines help the immune system fight pathogens.

 

[Ultrairon]

Exactly. My understanding has always been that the vaccine is supposed to keep you from getting severe symptoms that would put you in the hospital. Based on that, it's working very well. Yes people with weakened or compromised immune symptoms are still going to have more problems.

I agree with your understanding of the vax. I was previously pointing out what we were told by the talking heads via the media. I thin its the best and the most one can do to prevent this disease from being out of control. Just get the vax and move along with life the best one can. I avoid crowds prior to covid but now its even worse. I am thankful to be getting older where I do not have the urges to join in on concerts college sports etc. That has to be a very tough call on the children's part. Something I never or my generation never had to deal with.

 

[Ultrairon]

I think that a lot of people thought that a vaccine was a magic force field. I'm not even sure why people got that false idea, because I have never heard anyone credible say that any vaccine is like a magic force field. Vaccines help the immune system fight pathogens.

No one in the covid discussion here said anything like that from what I have read. But there are plenty of news clips that show dr.'s and yes even "trusted" media sources making that claim.

 

[Cookster15]

I am thankful to be getting older where I do not have the urges to join in on concerts college sports etc. That has to be a very tough call on the children's part. Something I never or my generation never had to deal with.

Very good point. Young people in the 18-29 age bracket are affected the most by restrictions. My eldest son just graduated from high school - starts university this year. We have to keep encouraging him to maintain social connectivity. Something I am not sure many very senior, learned, yet frankly out of touch medical experts appreciate.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Very good point. Young people in the 18-29 age bracket are affected the most by restrictions. My eldest son just graduated from high school - starts university this year. We have to keep encouraging him to maintain social connectivity. Something I am not sure many very senior, learned, yet frankly out of touch medical experts appreciate.

Last year the amount of sucide attempts by minors in Vienna has doubled, the whole restrictions have really taken a toll on many young people's mental health.

 

[Cookster15]

I think that a lot of people thought that a vaccine was a magic force field. I'm not even sure why people got that false idea, because I have never heard anyone credible say that any vaccine is like a magic force field. Vaccines help the immune system fight pathogens.

Yes vaccines help the immune system fight pathogens - but this isn't well known and people conflate this with case counts and infections which are only mild thanks to vaccination.

So much misinformation is accepted as truth. The media should share some blame along with the politicians. I these (journalism and politics) are two of the least trusted professions.

 

[jmdirt]

Yes vaccines help the immune system fight pathogens - but this isn't well known and people conflate this with case counts and infections which are only mild thanks to vaccination.

So much misinformation is accepted as truth. The media should share some blame along with the politicians. I these (journalism and politics) are two of the least trusted professions.

I wonder why it isn't well known? I mean even prior to SC2 I assumed that most people knew how vaccines worked.

EDIT: I don't know how other countries work, but people can say pretty much anything they want in the USA without any consequences. We can blame them, but we can't hold the accountable.

 

[Cookster15]

I wonder why it isn't well known? I mean even prior to SC2 I assumed that most people knew how vaccines worked.

Good question. But there is still much misconception. But I don't think the average person is very well aware how vaccines work. Virtually all of us were vaccinated since young for a host of diseases but it is something you get done you don't think why.

Regarding your EDIT: That concerns freedom of speech. I agree with the concept of freedom of speech which is similar in my country. But we have a media and political system which should also incorporate accountability. I don't think it does and this is why the public get misconceptions on matters such as how vaccines work.

 

[Keram]

2,3 milion of cases worldwide according to worldmeter. That surge is unreal. Get a vax and brace yourself. This will be big. I think this is the strain where lockdowns are useless. The good news is that virus will run out of people soon.

 

[Cookster15]

2,3 milion of cases worldwide according to worldmeter. That surge is unreal. Get a vax and brace yourself. This will be big. I think this is the strain where lockdowns are useless. The good news is that virus will run out of people soon.

I hope so. But then I read today that Peter Sagan has just fallen ill with Covid a second time - that means the virus keeps circulating and won't run out of people.

 

[Koronin]

Unfortunately you can get it more than once, esp if it's a different variant.

 

[movingtarget]

This is an embarrassment to Australia. If vaccination does not prevent transmission why these ridiculous visa restrictions on Djokovic simply because he is unvaccinated? A while back poster suggested Australia had a small village mentality. Early and strict international border policy was the right approach pre vaccination which prevented disaster. But with nearly everyone fully vaccinated now this is ridiculous and embarrassing.

Novak Djokovic lands in Melbourne, but visa issues revealed as reason for delay in entry - ABC News

It is even more embarrassing when celebrities and high profile people are allowed to skirt laws that everyone else is subject to. What satisfied Tennis Australia and its independent panel didn't satisfy the federal or state governments. Djokovic's previous behavior re Covid rules was pretty apparent. It seems that some people have valid medical exemption reasons while others use it as a means to an end and visa applications are very specific. Lodge the incorrect paperwork and there is only one place you are going..............

 

[Cookster15]

It is even more embarrassing when celebrities and high profile people are allowed to skirt laws that everyone else is subject to. What satisfied Tennis Australia and its independent panel didn't satisfy the federal or state governments. Djokovic's previous behavior re Covid rules was pretty apparent. It seems that some people have valid medical exemption reasons while others use it as a means to an end and visa applications are very specific. Lodge the incorrect paperwork and there is only place you are going..............

I disagree. Its a dumb rule and knowing what we discuss in this thread regularly you should know why. Vaccination does not prevent transmission, Australia has a very high fully vaccinated rate and the medical exemption matter should be a moot point. I agree celebrities should not receive special treatment but celebrities can also provide an opportunity to change bad rules or laws.

If he gets sick enough for hospitalization then yes there is an argument. But overseas Djokovic's case is not being perceived this way.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Vaccination can prevent transmission. It isn't perfect, but I think it is fair to demand vaccination for international travel. I know one neat trick that would allow him entry.

I have 6 employees with Covid right now, 5 vaccinated (and 4 of those are boosted), 1 unvaccinated.

Maybe you missed this one. After all, it wasn't published in the Babylon Bee.

Israeli study finds Pfizer Covid booster protects against omicron variant

Israeli researchers said they found that a three-shot course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine provided significant protection against the new omicron variant.

www.cnbc.com

Last year the amount of sucide attempts by minors in Vienna has doubled, the whole restrictions have really taken a toll on many young people's mental health.

The big question is whether that was due to the lockdowns or just the pandemic. There are a lot of things that have increased the last few years. They probably aren't all due to lockdowns.

 

[Cookster15]

Vaccination can prevent transmission. It isn't perfect, but I think it is fair to demand vaccination for international travel.

I struggle to understand this logic. Again I talk from what we are seeing in Australia with omicron right now. The very high new case counts, pretty sure these are not unvaccinated persons and didn't get infected from unvaccinated persons because simply isn't many such people left.

 

[Cookster15]

The big question is whether that was due to the lockdowns or just the pandemic. There are a lot of things that have increased the last few years. They probably aren't all due to lockdowns.

Easy answer: Lockdowns of course. Ask teenagers or small business people how they feel locked down?

In my country the pandemic has caused very little physical health harm in the general community outside the city of Melbourne for a few months of 2020. And that effected primarily unvaccinated elderly people. No way is worsening mental health being driven by the pandemic. 100% it is driven by lockdowns and restrictions, and loss of private businesses and work in the private sector.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I struggle to understand this logic. Again I talk from what we are seeing in Australia with omicron right now. The very high new case counts, pretty sure these are not unvaccinated persons and didn't get infected from unvaccinated persons because simply isn't many such people left.

We just went over this. Australia almost has a 1/4 of its population that is unvaccinated. And a lot of the unvaccinated are concentrated in school settings. And unboosted don't have much protection from infection with omicron and that represents the vast majority of people. It isn't logic, it is empirical evidence. Vaccinated people shed less virus sooner than the unvaccinated. I have posted the data before.

Easy answer: Lockdowns of course. Ask teenagers or small business people how they feel locked down?

In my country the pandemic has caused very little physical health harm in the general community outside the city of Melbourne for a few months of 2020. And that effected primarily unvaccinated elderly people. No way is worsening mental health being driven by the pandemic. 100% it is driven by lockdowns and restrictions, and loss of private businesses and work in the private sector.

small business owners have voiced their opinions ad nauseum. And they have been catered to beyond all reason. Why do you suppose that bars were open when the schools were online only?

Italy had a lot more death in 2020. That is going to effect people negatively.