Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[movingtarget]

A lot of dead people no doubt were happy with their freedom to choose. I'm not sure any rational person sees the US handlng of the pandemic a success story but of course they are not the only ones. Being a so called beacon of democracy and a rich country hasn't helped the USA a lot re the pandemic.

 

[Oldermanish]

What do you not understand about the Austrian lockdown of the UNVACCINATED implemented by the government last November? FFS, the unvaccinated weren't asked to kindly stay home - they were ORDERED to stay home with the only exception being going to work, getting groceries, medical treatment, etc. If you left for any other reason other than the above, and you were stopped by the police, you could be fined. I would imagine if you resisted the stop & detainment, were uncooperative, ran from the police, etc. - you'd be arrested & charged. I doubt if someone who is stopped by the police & asked to see their vaccination papers - who decides to give the police the finger & just walk off, that the Police will just let them walk away wishing them a nice day. Lol. Watch the video here where the police are walking the streets randomly stopping people & checking their papers. Not something that would be tolerated in the U.S. (at least now but who knows in the future).

View: https://youtu.be/ju57g4446DU

5 officers surrounding this elderly lady - I'm sure she's a real threat to their safety:

View: https://youtu.be/a4UMhyCOGNk

I understand fully what a mandated quarantine would and could be. The motivation by their authorities would also be for protection of public health, not some expression of tyrannical government overreach for the sake of repressing your people. Austrians aren't generally complacent about that stuff.
No...the question still stands to you: did they actually jail or incarcerate people for NOT GETTING VACCINATED?
Spare us the projected histrionics about what could be our future in the US; it's your fearful hope, IMO.
And suggesting you know me and my response to a requirement for vaccination is still the truth you hold in your heart. Right?

 

[Nomad]

Sorry to disappoint you but you don't know sh*t about me. Your prejudice prevents you from reading reasonable arguments and grouping me with "extremists" is ignorant. I've been an advocate for the rights of anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated as long as they respected the health of others and have posted here repeatedly.

I believe I got Covid in February '20. No testing or vaccines were available so the infection date could be different. Testing in current times suggests I was infected and have the antibodies you represent as the zenith of athletic and healty well-being. I have also taken vaccines because I am older and around folks far less healthy and at risk. It's me being careful for their behalf and assuring that if I got another Covid variant I wouldn't suffer so much. No losers in that situation IMO. My wife tested positive for Omicron with no consequences to her health. I didn't get it; likely because I had been vaccinated.

I am pro-health and, if you'd read my responses you'd know my brother followed your path and presumed he'd never get it. He did and Omicron had him on his knees. He apologized for not seeking testing after he had symptoms; placing my wife's employment at risk. He's better now and he assumes he has forever immunity. He has your profile down. I still like him but certainly don't know you.
I wouldn't bully you but, if you proudly took no precautions and weren't vaccinated around my at-risk family or friends I'd invite you to go your gym or wherever folks that don't know sht and don't care sht about the health of others and stay there.

And you don't know about sht about me either. You're an *advocate for the rights of the unvaccinated? Really?..then how come you don't post any anti-mandate/pro-choice info, links, etc.? I'm mostly the only one that posts that kind of stuff here, with some input by Ultra & Frank B as the only other regular posters. I don't even think you've ever submitted any "likes" to anything I've ever posted on this subject (again usually only Ultra & Frank B). So, I think you're being deceptive & clearly despise me, which is fine but why don't you just "man-up" & at least admit to it. You know I'm the only one unvaxxed that posts on this thread - so I'm not a fan favorite here (I get more flack from the things I post from the usual 3 or so regular posters here). And this just exemplifies on a broader scope the line that's drawn in this country separating the unvaxxed/naturally immune from the vaccinated. Most of the vaccinated I know in my circle of friends (ex-friends now), relatives & acquaintances that voluntarily took the jab have very little respect for the unvaccinated with a lot of these people supporting the restrictions & mandates. This what the government wants, this is what Fauci wants --- conflict between the vaxxed & unvaxxed. Now I have friends & a few relatives who were forced to take the jab or faced losing their jobs. I understand their dilemma & ally with them. These are angry people who felt they were backed into a corner. If they had a choice not to take the vaxx they wouldn't have.

Like I said before, I had Covid x2, the original & the Delta strain. No big deal for me - I dealt with it & didn't need/want medical intervention. Healthy nutrition, supplements & excercise does wonders for the immune system & prepares it to do battle against respiratory viruses. A lot of people in this country are nutritionally ignorant & don't excercise living an unhealthy lifestyle. And if they don't fare well with Covid or other illnesses that's their problem & I don't feel sorry for them. I'm a take responsibility for your health kind of guy - and this is how I've raised my kids. I wouldn't want it any other way.

And yes...I have the "zenith of athletic and healthy well- being" because I chose do that & take responsibility for my health. And again you don't know sh*t about me either; it's very difficult to do this lifestyle with the plethora of injuries that I have to deal with at my age . Compliments of idiotic Denver driver that 5 yrs ago blew through a red light while texting broadsiding me, I had a double-rotator cuff tear, displaced fracture fingers, non-displaced fractured neck, concussion & injured back. In addition, I have moderate OA of both hips, one knee & and ankle - compliments of wear & tear from decades of hard training & racing (I'm sure if I live long enough, I'll be giving a lot of business to the joint-replacement surgeons. Lol). You want to talk pain in trying to get of a bed every day to workout? You want to talk pain during the workouts? FFS, I can't even cycle more than 3 hrs without excoriating lower back pain. And I'm restricted to my favourite activity now of weight training/bodybuilding because of these injuries - but I make no excuses & get it done...pain & all. I don't take pain pills except on rare occasions when I've aggravated badly one of these injuries during training. And I don't take any of that TRT or HRT bs that so many men my age are taking - I do it the hard, natural way (which isn't particularly easy when my T levels are half of what they were in my prime 30 yrs ago). I credit my toughness from playing college football, studying the martial arts when I was younger & weight training with a friend of mine who is a retired Navy SEAL. There I really learned the value of toughness & training through pain. This is why I don't personally fear Covid because it pales in comparison to these other issues.

And I take precautions with at-risk people if I'm around them but I'm not around anyone like that for the most part. But what you fail to realize is the vaccinated get infected at a higher rate & consequently transmit it more than us naturally immune. The CDC & Fauci isn't really telling people much about this because it far easier to keep the fearmongering going & blame the unvaxxed for everything. Frankly, these vaccines are duds when it comes to preventing infection & transmission (FFS, Kamala Harris just tested positive who is fully vaxxed with boosters and all!). But hey...let's just keep blaming the unvaxxed for spreading the virus. Lol.

NEW DATA SHOWS TROUBLING TREND IN VACCINATED - The HighWire

Covid case data now comes without the politics from a surprising source…Walgreens. And the truth is, we are no longer in a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Check out this shocking data!

thehighwire.com

 

[movingtarget]

External blood oxygenation saved hundreds of Covid-19 sufferers – study

Adding oxygen to blood using ECMO process found to cause big increase in survival rate in severe UK cases

www.theguardian.com

 

[Oldermanish]

And you don't know about sht about me either. You're an *advocate for the rights of the unvaccinated? Really?..then how come you don't post any anti-mandate/pro-choice info, links, etc.? I'm mostly the only one that posts that kind of stuff here, with some input by Ultra & Frank B as the only other regular posters. I don't even think you've ever submitted any "likes" to anything I've ever posted on this subject (again usually only Ultra & Frank B). So, I think you're being deceptive & clearly despise me, which is fine but why don't you just "man-up" & at least admit to it. You know I'm the only one unvaxxed that posts on this thread - so I'm not a fan favorite here (I get more flack from the things I post from the usual 3 or so regular posters here). And this just exemplifies on a broader scope the line that's drawn in this country separating the unvaxxed/naturally immune from the vaccinated. Most of the vaccinated I know in my circle of friends (ex-friends now), relatives & acquaintances that voluntarily took the jab have very little respect for the unvaccinated with a lot of these people supporting the restrictions & mandates. This what the government wants, this is what Fauci wants --- conflict between the vaxxed & unvaxxed. Now I have friends & a few relatives who were forced to take the jab or faced losing their jobs. I understand their dilemma & ally with them. These are angry people who felt they were backed into a corner. If they had a choice not to take the vaxx they wouldn't have.

Like I said before, I had Covid x2, the original & the Delta strain. No big deal for me - I dealt with it & didn't need/want medical intervention. Healthy nutrition, supplements & excercise does wonders for the immune system & prepares it to do battle against respiratory viruses. A lot of people in this country are nutritionally ignorant & don't excercise living an unhealthy lifestyle. And if they don't fare well with Covid or other illnesses that's their problem & I don't feel sorry for them. I'm a take responsibility for your health kind of guy - and this is how I've raised my kids. I wouldn't want it any other way.

And yes...I have the "zenith of athletic and healthy well- being" because I chose do that & take responsibility for my health. And again you don't know sh*t about me either; it's very difficult to do this lifestyle with the plethora of injuries that I have to deal with at my age . Compliments of idiotic Denver driver that 5 yrs ago blew through a red light while texting broadsiding me, I had a double-rotator cuff tear, displaced fracture fingers, non-displaced fractured neck, concussion & injured back. In addition, I have moderate OA of both hips, one knee & and ankle - compliments of wear & tear from decades of hard training & racing (I'm sure if I live long enough, I'll be giving a lot of business to the joint-replacement surgeons. Lol). You want to talk pain in trying to get of a bed every day to workout? You want to talk pain during the workouts? FFS, I can't even cycle more than 3 hrs without excoriating lower back pain. And I'm restricted to my favourite activity now of weight training/bodybuilding because of these injuries - but I make no excuses & get it done...pain & all. I don't take pain pills except on rare occasions when I've aggravated badly one of these injuries during training. And I don't take any of that TRT or HRT bs that so many men my age are taking - I do it the hard, natural way (which isn't particularly easy when my T levels are half of what they were in my prime 30 yrs ago). I credit my toughness from playing college football, studying the martial arts when I was younger & weight training with a friend of mine who is a retired Navy SEAL. There I really learned the value of toughness & training through pain. This is why I don't personally fear Covid because it pales in comparison to these other issues.

And I take precautions with at-risk people if I'm around them but I'm not around anyone like that for the most part. But what you fail to realize is the vaccinated get infected at a higher rate & consequently transmit it more than us naturally immune. The CDC & Fauci isn't really telling people much about this because it far easier to keep the fearmongering going & blame the unvaxxed for everything. Frankly, these vaccines are duds when it comes to preventing infection & transmission (FFS, Kamala Harris just tested positive who is fully vaxxed with boosters and all!). But hey...let's just keep blaming the unvaxxed for spreading the virus. Lol.

NEW DATA SHOWS TROUBLING TREND IN VACCINATED - The HighWire

Covid case data now comes without the politics from a surprising source…Walgreens. And the truth is, we are no longer in a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Check out this shocking data!

thehighwire.com

As I mentioned: I don't know you. You still seem to think you know me and want this to be personal.

Comparing my responses to other forum posters, who I may agree/disagree based on the discussion; as though they are a reflection of my regard for you is something you'll need to sort out. That's imaginary; not real. It's not intended to be personal; just direct forum talk.

I appreciate your precautions with at-risk people. That you count out former friends from your circle over this issue may be another thing to sort out. As I said: I still like my unvaccinated brother....and a few folks that I know that refuse vaccination. We communicate so a passing disease doesn't become the separation between us.

I strongly oppose medical application of steroids, hormones or other regimes unless medically necessary. Likewise with pain killers. That mature amateur "athletes" use PEDs to compete is pathetic cheating IMO and a lie to one's self. That weight training includes those aids is equally pathetic and I've commented on that over the years when relevant to a specific topic.

The political aspects of your responses clearly come from your prior opinions and it's good to question authority.

 

[jmdirt]

I just listened to an interesting (IMO) discussion about "broadening immunity". A lot of info to digest, but one take away is that broadening immunity is more important than targeting specific variants.

At this point I can't share it because the paywall also hides the URL.
-Dr. Andersen if you want to search it...it should be free to view soon.

 

[search]

The Omicron variant wasn't a health emergency. And yeah, they're were locking up the unvaccinated, even if you had natural immunity, back in Nov. That's called "following the science." Lol

Austria locks down unvaccinated as COVID cases surge across Europe

Austria imposed a lockdown on people unvaccinated against the coronavirus on Monday as winter approaches and infections rise across Europe, with Germany considering tighter curbs and Britain expanding its booster programme to younger adults.

www.reuters.com

this is not quite correct. There has always been a "vaccinated or recovered" kind of policy over here in Europe, although with verying lengths regarding the validity of the recovery pass. Back then it was 180 days in Austria.

 

[Nomad]

this is not quite correct. There has always been a "vaccinated or recovered" kind of policy over here in Europe, although with verying lengths regarding the validity of the recovery pass. Back then it was 180 days in Austria.

You're right, the legislative bill exempted those that recoverd from Covid in the previous 6 months:

Austrian parliament approves vaccine mandate for adults

Austria’s parliament has voted to introduce a COVID-19 vaccine mandate for adults from Feb. 1, the first of its kind in Europe.

apnews.com

Curious, how would this be applied for someone like me that was not tested for the virus but was tested for the antibodies? I had what appeared to be the Delta variant in early Sept of last year (my son was initially sick after attending a concert at a packed indoor venue). After I felt better, both my son & I took the IGG, IA antibody test through our healthcare provider - sample taken on 092121. The report read "Reactive" after detecting "IgG antibodies for the SARS-Cov-2 spike protein" associated with Covid-19. "This result suggests that you have either been exposed to Covid-19 or vaccinated against SARS-Cov-2."

So, when would my 6 months time frame have started? The date of the test (092121?). Or the approximate time period of infection (early Sept?). Would the authorities even accept a "Reactive" antibody test over an PCR positive test result?

A lot of questions when you're dealing with someone like me who's never been PCR tested but tested for the antibodies.

 

[Unchained]

Crazy good news that mass America including children have exposure and the resulting antibodies. And w broad access to vaccines and further development constant variants are subtlety less challenging we would hope.
because of a schedule change I was unable to exchange fact barbs with Ultra and the couple oth.
But American history of world war,like the one our government proclaimed us to be facing against Covid..the data and antidotes everywhere..there was little to know vaccine resistance in WWI and WW|| the other 2 world wars declared by the United States..
Google says we have 1.3 million service members..so current climate sure,people playing within the system..but the math goes like this..number of years US Military has mandated vaccines, total number served until 2022..and in the history of military vaccination,how many have resisted,or not gotten vaccinated..don't know if I could ever factor what the numerator and denominator would look like

 

[Unchained]

Thanks Ultra!! I knew you would get a hoot at of the math problems..and as China looms w more lockdowns possible..I found it a strange surprise at how many are unvaccinated throughout the country

 

[jmdirt]

Crazy good news that mass America including children have exposure and the resulting antibodies. And w broad access to vaccines and further development constant variants are subtlety less challenging we would hope.
because of a schedule change I was unable to exchange fact barbs with Ultra and the couple oth.
But American history of world war,like the one our government proclaimed us to be facing against Covid..the data and antidotes everywhere..there was little to know vaccine resistance in WWI and WW|| the other 2 world wars declared by the United States..
Google says we have 1.3 million service members..so current climate sure,people playing within the system..but the math goes like this..number of years US Military has mandated vaccines, total number served until 2022..and in the history of military vaccination,how many have resisted,or not gotten vaccinated..don't know if I could ever factor what the numerator and denominator would look like

.005% based on current numbers, and likely a few more zeros on the right side of the decimal point based on historical numbers. The number of people who have served would be an easy enough number to calculate, but the number who have refused vaccination would be nearly impossible to even find data on because they would have just been discharged without any mention of why (until recently obviously).

 

[Oldermanish]

.005% based on current numbers, and likely a few more zeros on the right side of the decimal point based on historical numbers. The number of people who have served would be an easy enough number to calculate, but the number who have refused vaccination would be nearly impossible to even find data on because they would have just been discharged without any mention of why (until recently obviously).

Realistically enlisted folks would know they have volunteered to give up their life for their country. Objecting to the "science" of every infection, plague or allergy they'd get would seem petty enough for a discharge or court-martial. It's the basic spirit of the service.
That said there have always been polarized elements in every country's military I'd guess. Regional, racial, religious and political differences wouldn't go away solely from a unified enemy force. IMO the current polarized climate has given more publicity to any objections to military, school and business life. Sadly, the US is certainly not the only country under pressure.

 

[movingtarget]

Australian researchers uncover clue to rare and severe response to Covid in children

Breakthrough could improve diagnosis and lead to development of treatment for condition that has baffled doctors for two years

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

WHO estimates 15m people killed directly or indirectly by Covid pandemic

UN body says figure, more than twice previous official totals, should prompt countries to invest more in their capacity to quell future emergencies

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

Are nasal sprays the answer to stopping Covid transmission?

With the virus rampant despite jabs, trials are underway to create intranasal vaccines to block infections from the body

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

I wrote at the time that this research looked like fraud.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522446840788324352

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/GidMK/status/1522446840788324352

 

[Ultrairon]

I wrote at the time that this research looked like fraud.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522446840788324352

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/GidMK/status/1522446840788324352

But if you read this its for research done before the covid pandemic. Your statement is off with respect to the actual news.
Twitter really is a terrible way to post up information and Health Nerd does the exact same thing with his statement.

French research institute faces criminal charges over “serious breaches”

The French Medicines Agency (ANSM) has said that it will file criminal charges with the Marseilles public prosecutor against the local hospital-university institute (IHU) for infectious diseases, which is run by the microbiologist Didier Raoult. The agency said that an inspection had revealed...

www.bmj.com

The exact quote from the article for REAL context.


"The French Medicines Agency (ANSM) has said that it will file criminal charges with the Marseilles public prosecutor against the local hospital-university institute (IHU) for infectious diseases, which is run by the microbiologist Didier Raoult.

The agency said that an inspection had revealed “serious breaches” in the IHU’s biomedical research before the covid pandemic and that two of the breaches might qualify as criminal.1 These relate to research said to have been conducted without approval from an external evaluation committee and alleged falsifying of a document from the IHU’s internal ethics committee.

Raoult gained notoriety at the beginning of the pandemic when he claimed that hydroxychloroquine, a derivative of the antimalarial drug chloroquine, …"

 

[djpbaltimore]

But if you read this its for research done before the covid pandemic. Your statement is off with respect to the actual news.
Twitter really is a terrible way to post up information and Health Nerd does the exact same thing with his statement.

French research institute faces criminal charges over “serious breaches”

The French Medicines Agency (ANSM) has said that it will file criminal charges with the Marseilles public prosecutor against the local hospital-university institute (IHU) for infectious diseases, which is run by the microbiologist Didier Raoult. The agency said that an inspection had revealed...

www.bmj.com

The exact quote from the article for REAL context.


"The French Medicines Agency (ANSM) has said that it will file criminal charges with the Marseilles public prosecutor against the local hospital-university institute (IHU) for infectious diseases, which is run by the microbiologist Didier Raoult.

The agency said that an inspection had revealed “serious breaches” in the IHU’s biomedical research before the covid pandemic and that two of the breaches might qualify as criminal.1 These relate to research said to have been conducted without approval from an external evaluation committee and alleged falsifying of a document from the IHU’s internal ethics committee.

Raoult gained notoriety at the beginning of the pandemic when he claimed that hydroxychloroquine, a derivative of the antimalarial drug chloroquine, …"

Do you think their research became more credible during the pandemic? Like, they stopped doing fraud for....reasons?

 

[Nomad]

Obesity may weaken vaccine protection: study

Among those in the study without previous SARS-CoV-2 infection who had received the Pfizer vaccine, patients with severe obesity had antibody levels more than three times lower than normal-weight individuals.

www.google.com

 

[movingtarget]

Obesity may weaken vaccine protection: study

Among those in the study without previous SARS-CoV-2 infection who had received the Pfizer vaccine, patients with severe obesity had antibody levels more than three times lower than normal-weight individuals.

www.google.com

I read somewhere recently, think it was the Guardian, that researchers in the USA found that 40% of Covid deceased in the USA were diabetics.

 

[Koronin]

I read somewhere recently, think it was the Guardian, that researchers in the USA found that 40% of Covid deceased in the USA were diabetics.

Interesting

 

[jmdirt]

I read somewhere recently, think it was the Guardian, that researchers in the USA found that 40% of Covid deceased in the USA were diabetics.

The NYT had a story about it last month and I believe they said 30-40%. It makes sense because diabetes by itself compromises the immune system, but many diabetics have compounding issues as well.

 

[Ultrairon]

Obesity may weaken vaccine protection: study

Among those in the study without previous SARS-CoV-2 infection who had received the Pfizer vaccine, patients with severe obesity had antibody levels more than three times lower than normal-weight individuals.

www.google.com

Sad that the Health officials do not declare this a health emergency. Obesity , type2 diabetes are out of control and usually most ignore the problems.

 

[movingtarget]

Sad that the Health officials do not declare this a health emergency. Obesity , type2 diabetes are out of control and usually most ignore the problems.

Even heart disease in women was played down for much too long but now it gets much more attention. But it seems that some diseases get the right people involved in their public health campaigns while others don't. Parkinsons is much more widely known now than it used to be thanks to smart campaigns and more money spent on education. I don't know how diseases like diabetes and Alzheimers can be played down considering the numbers of people they effect. Some of it has to do with public perceptions and misinformation.

 

[Oldermanish]

Sad that the Health officials do not declare this a health emergency. Obesity , type2 diabetes are out of control and usually most ignore the problems.

Agreed and the combination makes those afflicted more vulnerable to almost every other health problem. That, and there are many people unaware how borderline they are in terms of A1C risk. That affects energy level and vulnerability as much as being diabetic. It does seem the more prosperous countries have the largest profile, too.

The hard issue for governments is dealing with major commercial interests that specialize in the kinds of foods that do the most harm. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't PR efforts by fast food corporations decrying "fat shaming" instead of improving their products. Having said that; the outcry when NY mayors emphasized the damage caused by soft drinks they were vilified by every political spectrum. People need to learn that cheap food does not equal a cheaper living experience. You pay with your health at some point.