Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Koronin]

Mel Gibson was treated with Remdsivir back in April when he was hospitalized for a week with Covid:

Mel Gibson had coronavirus in April, was treated with remdesivir: report

Mel Gibson tested positive for the coronavirus in April, when he spent a week in the hospital and was treated with remdesivir.His spokesperson revealed the news on Thursday, according to The New Yo…

www.google.com

The isn't is giving him Remdsivir, that actually makes sense. The issue is giving him several different treatments within 2 days in which no one knows how they interact with each other.

 

[Koronin]

Isn't testing the vaccines on healthy younger people what they do in the early stages before moving on to more general tests once they're more confident that the vaccine should be safe?

Yes. Also the tests are including more people. The testing sites at Duke U and UNC-Chapel Hill are looking specifically for minorities to volunteer for it. Now the one big thing they won't accept you for is if you have a compromised immune system or an autoimmune disease of any kind. This is for the Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZenica trials. (Both Universities are test sites for all 3 vaccines.)

 

[djpbaltimore]

Apparently it's now being reported that trump is ALSO being given Remdsivir. Um, they are giving a bunch of different treatments with no idea how they interact to each.

And now dexamethasone. That is only recommended for really severe cases.

Dr. Bhakdi is concerned with the side effects as well as believing any vaccine is not going to effective against coronaviruses.

Here's one of his interesting presentations on the subject:

"Immunity & Immunization by Prof Sucharit Bhakdi"

View: https://youtu.be/4uo2KGiSjrw


States T-cell cross immunity from T-killer/helper cells can last for years and protects far longer than any antibodies from coronaviruses could. Believes ~85% of the German population is already sufficiently protected against Covid-19 from previous exposures to coronaviruses (he discusses the risks with the gene-based vaccines toward the end of the lecture).

The other problem is the current clinical trials have excluded many of demographics that have a much higher risk of death & complications from the virus (i.e. elderly, comorbidities). For example, you referenced Moderna; on the ClinicalTrials.gov site their exclusion criteria excludes those over 55, obesity and those with significant medical or psychiatric conditions such as respiratory conditions (e.g, COPD, asthma), heart disease including previous coronary surgery, autoimmune diseases, etc.

So, testing these vaccines on healthy younger people isn't going to determine if they're safe and effective for the target group that needs and is demanding protection.

That doctor is full of it about gene based vaccines. Maybe it is lost in translation, but a mRNA vaccine is not genetically altering cells.

The big flaw in his argument is that a vaccine specific to Covid19 can't be protective, but previous infections from distantly related coronaviruses is. That makes little immunological sense and he provides no evidence for either assertion. I've said it before, but the evidence that cross reactive T cells are helpful is scarce.

 

[movingtarget]

I know I shouldn't be smiling but............

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...s/news-story/b801c9f283daf2b55f725b5a24389989

 

[djpbaltimore]

Labcoat Voltron allegedly assembling for a third attempt at clarity in a few minutes.

ETA. Unsurprisingly, the effort did not lead to more clarity. Citing HIPAA when they asked about lung damage answered the question in a roundabout way.

 

[Oldermanish]

And this from Trump's campaign staff: "Biden....should be criticized because he hasn't had Covid" and that "the President has real life experience with Covid…"
Then Trump follows up with a tweet: "don't fear Covid".

I'd really like to see the targeting optics for his campaign on this sh*t. Is it really a strategy to get Covid, infect innocent and less than innocent bystanders and then grandstand about the experience? Who even can think this spin is better than a little humility?

 

[movingtarget]

And this from Trump's campaign staff: "Biden....should be criticized because he hasn't had Covid" and that "the President has real life experience with Covid…"
Then Trump follows up with a tweet: "don't fear Covid".

I'd really like to see the targeting optics for his campaign on this sh*t. Is it really a strategy to get Covid, infect innocent and less than innocent bystanders and then grandstand about the experience? Who even can think this spin is better than a little humility?

More of a case of who won't end up with Covid from Trump's inner circle.............Trump chaneling his reassuring wise man now...........

 

[Merckx index]

Feeling sympathy for Trump because he caught the coronavirus is like feeling sympathy for Magic Johnson because he caught HIV.

 

[djpbaltimore]

It is hard to believe that everybody thought that Magic would be dead in 5 years when he made that announcement. Some hemophiliacs had their trailers set on fire because their neighbors were scared. Then there is the Ryan White story. Dealing with infectious disease as a society has never been a particular strong suit in the US. Medical advances have papered over the cracks. What Magic did afterwards humanized the suffering for many people without first hand experience. In contrast, we are now kicking off the national conversation by making a comparison between Flu and COVID-19.

Of course, Europe is starting to look as bad as the USA with their recent backsliding. Suffice to say that the numbers below are not consistent with herd immunity in Sweden.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313452798537805826

View: https://twitter.com/DavidSteadson/status/1313452798537805826

 

[Nomad]

That doctor is full of it about gene based vaccines. Maybe it is lost in translation, but a mRNA vaccine is not genetically altering cells.

The big flaw in his argument is that a vaccine specific to Covid19 can't be protective, but previous infections from distantly related coronaviruses is. That makes little immunological sense and he provides no evidence for either assertion. I've said it before, but the evidence that cross reactive T cells are helpful is scarce.

I don't think Bhakdi is "full of it" - I find his presentations & lectures very interesting. And given his impeccable creditionals, I think he knows a "thing or two" about infectious diseases & immunity.

This:

The Great Barrington Declaration - an alternative approach to the virus:

Weiterleitungshinweis

www.google.com

Covid experts: there is another way

Three eminent epidemiologists met in Massachusetts to plan a better response to the pandemic

unherd.com

-Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Professor, Medicine, Harvard Medical School.
-Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Professor, Medicine, Stanford
-Dr. Sunetra Gupta, Professor, Theoretical Epidemiology, Oxford.

The alternative approach: "Allowing those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection while better protecting those who are at a higher risk."

Declaration sign by 1,340 medical & public health scientists and 1,487 medical practitioners.

View: https://youtu.be/rz_Z7Gf1aRE


Excellent interview with the three scientists; 56k views & 1.3k comments!

It seems it's toxic to mention anything pertaining to herd immunity & Covid. The virus isn't going anywhere - that's clearly shown with the increase in cases despite the all the lockdowns, continual restrictions on large gatherings, social distancing, masks, etc. Their recommendation is the scientific approach; protect the most vulnerable and let the young & healthy develope herd immunity. Finally some sanity on how to deal with this.

 

[movingtarget]

White House likened to 'ghost town' as anxiety over coronavirus cluster grows

US administration faces complaints it failed to trace potential contacts of Donald Trump and his infected aides

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

I don't think Bhakdi is "full of it" - I find his presentations & lectures very interesting. And given his impeccable creditionals, I think he knows a "thing or two" about infectious diseases & immunity.

The alternative approach: "Allowing those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection while better protecting those who are at a higher risk."

It seems it's toxic to mention anything pertaining to herd immunity & Covid. The virus isn't going anywhere - that's clearly shown with the increase in cases despite the all the lockdowns, continual restrictions on large gatherings, social distancing, masks, etc. Their recommendation is the scientific approach; protect the most vulnerable and let the young & healthy develope herd immunity. Finally some sanity on how to deal with this.

If you are a scientist being 'interesting' at the expense of being accurate, you are failing to communicate responsibly. Mikovits was also very 'interesting' in Plandemic. He is a microbiologist. The lack of immunology training is telling. That was evident when he claimed that a vaccine will be mostly just for older people. And whatever his points about T cells are, the numbers flat out don't indicate that there is herd immunity anywhere. You can like what he is saying, but what he is saying is far from accurate.

Death is such a poor metric for disease. Anybody who has read about the young people who have been sick for months with potentially life altering health issues would admit that we need to take the whole sequelae of the virus into account.

The increase in cases is because the restrictions have been lifted too soon. As I have noted before, taking a segment of the population out of the virus pool will prevent herd immunity from arising. Once you plug the elderly back into society, they will be highly susceptible to outbreaks. True herd immunity would require 60-80% of all subgroups of people, including the elderly, to generate immunity. The best way to protect the elderly is to limit community spread until a vaccine is approved. There is a reason Dr. Fauci wants there to be under 10,000 cases per day ASAP.

 

[dusty red roads]

Flurry of coronavirus reinfections leaves scientists puzzled

Though far from common, some patients developed worse symptoms the second time they became infected with Covid-19

www.theguardian.com

 

[Oldermanish]

Flurry of coronavirus reinfections leaves scientists puzzled

Though far from common, some patients developed worse symptoms the second time they became infected with Covid-19

www.theguardian.com

Then there is still hope for the President to get a more convincing version of it? Maybe in time to illicit still more sympathy for his pain and awe for his recovery abilities? I apologize for joking but it beats being constantly appalled.

 

[Koronin]

Flurry of coronavirus reinfections leaves scientists puzzled

Though far from common, some patients developed worse symptoms the second time they became infected with Covid-19

www.theguardian.com

I was hoping that reinfections would mean milder symptoms, although I've also read reinfections for asymptotic can lead to worse symptoms if they get it again.

 

[movingtarget]

US Covid vaccine unlikely to arrive before election following FDA move

White House appears to have dropped objections to safety guidelines that call for two months of data

www.theguardian.com

 

[dusty red roads]

I was hoping that reinfections would mean milder symptoms, although I've also read reinfections for asymptotic can lead to worse symptoms if they get it again.

I guess the "good" news about this is that the percentage of these reinfections is (at this point anyway) appears to be very low. But further down the track with more knowledge that might change of course.

 

[movingtarget]

Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young

Critics describe proposal to isolate vulnerable, disabled and older people as ‘grotesque’

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

The Guardian really seems to have some good writers who understand Science. I've been impressed by the quality of their work. Reading the long thread of Dr. Gonsalves' response to these three is worth your time.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313188071937060870

View: https://twitter.com/gregggonsalves/status/1313188071937060870

 

[movingtarget]

Top US immunologist quits health role over Trump Covid response

Dr Rick Bright says administration ‘ignores scientific expertise and overrules public health guidance’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Cookster15]

Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young

Critics describe proposal to isolate vulnerable, disabled and older people as ‘grotesque’

www.theguardian.com

Thanks for the article. Not sure if herd immunity is possible but I tend to agree with these researchers. My parents who are in the high risk age group have restricted their movements since Covid and are supportive of letting non elderly people get on with their lives and work. My parents don't feel like they are imprisoned.

Critics use of language such as "grotesque" is either naïve or disingenuous and designed to scare people - as if we are not all scared enough. Grotesque - really? Did these people ever ask anyone who was over 75 what they think or is this language designed to scare - I know what I suspect.

Covid-19 lockdowns and restrictions are having “devastating effects” on public health by disrupting routine care and harming mental health, with the underprivileged bearing the greatest burden.

Exactly. Don't under estimate the impact of lockdowns and restrictions on mental health and consumer confidence. When business suffers that can have a massive impact on people too. We have implemented policy to make biggest impact - quickly. Outside of America who acted too late this has worked - like Australia. But this approach should be tweaked. Time for tweaking because banking on a vaccine becoming available is not a sensible policy. It is not economically or socially sustainable. Socializing our economies isn't the answer.

 

[hrotha]

How do you even isolate the elderly from the general population?

 

[Jagartrott]

It's explained here how "herd immunity" and "focused protection" as a strategy lacks realism.

Why herd immunity strategy is regarded as fringe viewpoint

Scientists say idea of ‘focused protection’ for vulnerable people is very hard to achieve and likely to lead to even higher death toll

www.theguardian.com

 

[jmdirt]

I don't know what all of the fuss is about, C19 isn't that bad, you shouldn't let it change your life, its patriotic to get it...

 

[roundabout]

for all the poo pooing of the herd immunity strategy, what is going on in Europe right now feels to me like going for it without mentioning it by name. the decrease in deaths compared to the first wave suggests that there is some degree of adaptation by the vulnerable, so again it seems that something indeed is possible to be done.