Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[movingtarget]

for all the poo pooing of the herd immunity strategy, what is going on in Europe right now feels to me like going for it without mentioning it by name. the decrease in deaths compared to the first wave suggests that there is some degree of adaptation by the vulnerable, so again it seems that something indeed is possible to be done.

Well it took the deaths of an estimated 50 million people during the Spanish Flu outbreak and two years to achieve a semblance of herd immunity and the second wave was worse than the first. They also practiced social distancing. The Spanish Flu virus never completely disappeared. Traces are still found today. And has already been seen with the coronavirus, recovery even in young people can be very arbitrary. Lots more infections could also mean lots more long termers putting even more stress on hospital systems around the world . The long term effects of this virus seem to be more complex than the Spanish Flu but not enough time has passed to tell whether the symptoms of some of the survivors will dissipate or not re heart, lung, kidney and neurological problems. Also a form of chronic fatigue.

 

[Cookster15]

How do you even isolate the elderly from the general population?

You don’t isolate them physically you simply issue guidelines and recommendations. It can be done. Not difficult at all in developed nations in particular. Isn’t the threat of dying enough motivation? Certainly all the elderly I see take all the precautions. Lockdowns can’t be sustained even Europe has backed off on lockdowns for economic necessity.

 

[djpbaltimore]

It depends on the country, but a lot of the elderly live with younger family. Then there is the issue of the 'vulnerable' who are not senior citizens. They have been told to isolate for their own good, but in most cases lack the means to do so. No matter how they feel about Covid, they have effectively no choice in the matter to do anything but shoulder the risk in order to survive the rat race.

anybody else catch the N.Y. Post columnist blaming old people for being too selfish during this crisis? How did you Aussies let this gem leave?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313553163354624006

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1313553163354624006

 

[jmdirt]

Its shocking how much "can't see the forest for the trees' there is!

 

[movingtarget]

How do you even isolate the elderly from the general population?

Usually without much success it seems

It depends on the country, but a lot of the elderly live with younger family. Then there is the issue of the 'vulnerable' who are not senior citizens. They have been told to isolate for their own good, but in most cases lack the means to do so. No matter how they feel about Covid, they have effectively no choice in the matter to do anything but shoulder the risk in order to survive the rat race.

anybody else catch the N.Y. Post columnist blaming old people for being too selfish during this crisis? How did you Aussies let this gem leave?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313553163354624006

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1313553163354624006

Just ignore her, a well known fruitcake in Australia...............

 

[movingtarget]

Covid: more than 80% of positive UK cases in study had no core symptoms

ONS survey said 86.1% of people between April and June had none of the virus’ main symptoms

www.theguardian.com

 

[hrotha]

You don’t isolate them physically you simply issue guidelines and recommendations. It can be done. Not difficult at all in developed nations in particular. Isn’t the threat of dying enough motivation? Certainly all the elderly I see take all the precautions. Lockdowns can’t be sustained even Europe has backed off on lockdowns for economic necessity.

Everybody has already been issued guidelines and recommendations. This alone won't do. If this is the plan, it won't work.

 

[Cookster15]

Everybody has already been issued guidelines and recommendations. This alone won't do. If this is the plan, it won't work.

It works where I am.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Covid: more than 80% of positive UK cases in study had no core symptoms

ONS survey said 86.1% of people between April and June had none of the virus’ main symptoms

www.theguardian.com

'The finding has prompted fears that future Covid-19 outbreaks will be hard to control'

Big if true.

The N of 115 positive cases is on the low side , but I am not surprised by their findings. This also relates to some of the stories that I have read about prisons like the notorious Angola in Louisiana. In these accounts, unless you had all the major symptoms, they were not classifying you as being symptomatic. Even with the cough, if that was not accompanied by a fever, you were listed as asymptomatic. For my work tracker, it asks for no less than 13 symptoms. Every day I have to say that I don't have fever, chills, cough, loss of taste, loss of smell, trouble breathing, sore throat, nausea, muscle or body aches, diarrhea, vomiting, headache, and runny nose or congestion.

 

[jmdirt]

'The finding has prompted fears that future Covid-19 outbreaks will be hard to control'

Big if true.

The N of 115 positive cases is on the low side , but I am not surprised by their findings. This also relates to some of the stories that I have read about prisons like the notorious Angola in Louisiana. In these accounts, unless you had all the major symptoms, they were not classifying you as being symptomatic. Even with the cough, if that was not accompanied by a fever, you were listed as asymptomatic. For my work tracker, it asks for no less than 13 symptoms. Every day I have to say that I don't have fever, chills, cough, loss of taste, loss of smell, trouble breathing, sore throat, nausea, muscle or body aches, diarrhea, vomiting, headache, and runny nose or congestion.

My work has that list too. Every fall I have runny nose, congestion, and a slight cough (that could also make my throat scratchy) at times because of the sage party that happens along my trails. Is four symptoms enough to let me work from home again? I'm a pounded old dirt freak, my body always aches, is that five?

 

[djpbaltimore]

I don't know how many boxes I would need to check to get a mandatory test. Or if it is mostly the big ones. Diarrhea could be lunch carryout from Chipotle for some people who I work with.

 

[Unchained]

So as Americans we are pretty much all over the map!! Dirt is checking 4+ boxes at all times..so when his fever hits 103 everyone will say I knew it all along!!
Baltimore looking to get tested without a doctor or nurse practitioner witnessing him squirt soup..
movie theater chains announcing closures..in US( and UK)
Disney theme parks dumping @28,000 employees..
airlines getting ready for a @17,000 person contraction..
US President says everything is fine as he gets airlifted to military hospital oxygen treatments and experimental drug treatment..
White House says everything is fine and that is with 20+ confirmed Covid positives..top military brass working in pajamas instead of the Pentagon because of infection..
so we have made it full circle again..
If you want to know who should go to work,to school,to a bar or restaurant, into a movie theater..get into an airplane..a bus,train..baseball game..
Test people..identify who is sick and who is not,basic stuff,hard work..
And the comments about European heard immunity is silly, masks and distancing,closure or restrictions on groups like stadiums and pubs,all logical prevention and protection measures that let the virus crawl into a community instead of washing over the population like a death wave..
If we had the promised testing we would have the beginnings of a strategy instead of being mired in stupidity and broken promises..if a U.S. Government official(s) promised testing and we don't have it 8 months in..prison,water boarding and or battery cables to the bag is a start..if the guilty doesn't have a bag,find a fleshy flap to attach the cables before application of the voltage..
This is criminal what is happening

 

[movingtarget]

Europe struggles to stem rapid resurgence of coronavirus

Concern in Germany and maximum alert in France, as other countries report record infection rates

www.theguardian.com

 

[Unchained]

Trump’s antibody treatment was tested using cells originally derived from an abortion

The Trump administration has looked to curtail research with fetal cells. But when it was life or death for the president, no one objected.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[Unchained]

Ironic Twist: Last Spring Trump Halted Research Key To COVID-19 Drug He's Now Taken

The drug remdesivir emerged in part because researchers had previously tested it in China through a project whose grant was abruptly ended by the National Institutes of Health.

kansaspublicradio.org

 

[Unchained]

Trump Was Treated With Steroids: How These Drugs Are Used For COVID-19 Patients

The drug dexamethasone is a cheap, widely available steroid. But how long should COVID-19 patients take it, and what are the side effects?

www.npr.org

 

[Unchained]

Cases, Data, and Surveillance

Cases, data, and surveillance to track and analyze COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Unchained]

Over 15,000 Floridians now dead from coronavirus

The coronavirus death toll among Florida residents surpassed 15,000 on Thursday as 164 new fatalities were reported. The state also added 3,306 cases to push the statewide total to 726,013 infected…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[Unchained]

Top White House security official ‘gravely ill’ with COVID-19, report says

A top White House security employee has been hospitalized with coronavirus since September and is in grave condition, a report said. Crede Bailey, who is in charge of the White House security offic…

nypost.com

 

[jmdirt]

So as Americans we are pretty much all over the map!! Dirt is checking 4+ boxes at all times..so when his fever hits 103 everyone will say I knew it all along!!
Baltimore looking to get tested without a doctor or nurse practitioner witnessing him squirt soup..
movie theater chains announcing closures..in US( and UK)
Disney theme parks dumping @28,000 employees..
airlines getting ready for a @17,000 person contraction..
US President says everything is fine as he gets airlifted to military hospital oxygen treatments and experimental drug treatment..
White House says everything is fine and that is with 20+ confirmed Covid positives..top military brass working in pajamas instead of the Pentagon because of infection..
so we have made it full circle again..
If you want to know who should go to work,to school,to a bar or restaurant, into a movie theater..get into an airplane..a bus,train..baseball game..
Test people..identify who is sick and who is not,basic stuff,hard work..
And the comments about European heard immunity is silly, masks and distancing,closure or restrictions on groups like stadiums and pubs,all logical prevention and protection measures that let the virus crawl into a community instead of washing over the population like a death wave..
If we had the promised testing we would have the beginnings of a strategy instead of being mired in stupidity and broken promises..if a U.S. Government official(s) promised testing and we don't have it 8 months in..prison,water boarding and or battery cables to the bag is a start..if the guilty doesn't have a bag,find a fleshy flap to attach the cables before application of the voltage..
This is criminal what is happening

We have to take our temp before we swipe our ID to enter (mine has been 96-97 since mid Aug.

 

[dusty red roads]

Takeda-led COVID-19 plasma treatment enters clinical trial with first patient

Takeda Pharmaceutical Co said on Friday an alliance of drugmakers it spearheads has enrolled its first patient in a global clinical trial of a blood plasma treatment for COVID-19 after months of regulatory delays. The phase 3 trial by the group, known as the CoVIg Plasma Alliance, aims to enroll…

japantoday.com

 

[Nomad]

If you are a scientist being 'interesting' at the expense of being accurate, you are failing to communicate responsibly. Mikovits was also very 'interesting' in Plandemic. He is a microbiologist. The lack of immunology training is telling. That was evident when he claimed that a vaccine will be mostly just for older people. And whatever his points about T cells are, the numbers flat out don't indicate that there is herd immunity anywhere. You can like what he is saying, but what he is saying is far from accurate.

Bhakdi's had training in virology & immunology - he's published many articles in those fields. And he's trained something like 12,000 doctors in his illustrious career:

Sucharit Bhakdi - Chelsea Green Publishing

Sucharit Bhakdi was born in Washington, DC, and educated at schools in Switzerland, Egypt, and Thailand. He studied medicine at the University of Bonn in Germany, where he received his MD in 1970. He was a post-doctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology and Epigenetics in...

www.chelseagreen.com

You're just exasperated at a world-renowned scientist, and one of the most cited researchers in German history, telling the truth about the impending coronavirus vaccine - something the MSM wouldn't touch.

Here in an interview with "One Radio Network" (in English), Bhakdi discusses the problems he sees with the vaccines. For one, he says it takes at least 5 yrs to develope a safe & effective vaccine of any kind (it took Offit something like 10 yrs to develope the rotavirus vaccine). Two, he says vaccines for respiratory viruses are not that effective anyway. He doesn't think healthy people under 70 without any pre-existing conditions need a coronavirus vaccine (he says he's not taking one).

Starts @ 50 mins in:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUmmkkz5Fmw&app=desktop


And look at some of the problems already occurring in the trials:

Coronavirus vaccine trial subjects report extreme exhaustion, shortness of breath, day-long headaches and shaking so violently that one of them cracked a tooth

Get ready for the depopulation kill shots that cause severe neurological damage and lobotomize anyone stupid enough to take them. Even mainstream media outlet CNBC.com is now reporting that vaccine trials conducted by Moderna and Pfizer are producing extreme side effects in trial subjects. “High...

vaccineinjurynews.com

And any coronavirus vaccine finally developed may be ineffective for one of the higher risk groups; the obese!

Coronavirus vaccine might not work well for obese people and that’s a serious problem

Scientists know that vaccines engineered to protect the public from influenza, hepatitis B, tetanus and rabies can be less effective in obese adults, leaving them more vulnerable to infection and illness. There is little reason to believe, obesity researchers say, that COVID-19 vaccines will be...

www.google.com

The vaccine "vision" has become so politicized with Trump's "Operation Warp Speed" - throw tons of $$$ at pharma to get something quickly out there, whether ineffective and/or unsafe, just to appease the American people. And don't forget Trump appointed Hahn as the FDA commissioner - so there could be some persuasion (and more funding) to get something prematurely approved (nah..he wouldn't try to coerce the FDA. Lol).

 

[djpbaltimore]

He can have his opinions, but just know that his opinions are not accurate. There is no rule that it takes 5 years to make a safe vaccine. IMO, he is using his position to make inaccurate claims as an 'authority' knowing that most people will take his word as gospel. Again, explain how a specific vaccine can't possibly be effective at immunity, but a distantly related virus can be. That is his stated position and it is totally unsupported by logic and evidence at this stage. But, we will see soon enough about the effectiveness of the vaccine.

As for Hahn and the FDA, the companies making the vaccine are going to be around longer than any one individual. They are not likely to put out something that they think is unsafe and potentially upend their gravy train. I have posted about sketchy regulatory decisions there, but it looks like I was wrong to think that a vaccine would be pushed out too quickly. You complaining about vaccine side effects is rich considering that you have no problem with 60-80% of people in the world getting COVID-19. Just bad faith posturing pure and simple IMO.

 

[jmdirt]

He can have his opinions, but just know that his opinions are not accurate. There is no rule that it takes 5 years to make a safe vaccine. IMO, he is using his position to make inaccurate claims as an 'authority' knowing that most people will take his word as gospel. Again, explain how a specific vaccine can't possibly be effective at immunity, but a distantly related virus can be. That is his stated position and it is totally unsupported by logic and evidence at this stage. But, we will see soon enough about the effectiveness of the vaccine.

As for Hahn and the FDA, the companies making the vaccine are going to be around longer than any one individual. They are not likely to put out something that they think is unsafe and potentially upend their gravy train. I have posted about sketchy regulatory decisions there, but it looks like I was wrong to think that a vaccine would be pushed out too quickly. You complaining about vaccine side effects is rich considering that you have no problem with 60-80% of people in the world getting COVID-19. Just bad faith posturing pure and simple IMO.

That is a problem: people accept opinions as fact when they come from people of power and/or position (partly because those people pose them as fact). Plus, its one thing to have an opinion on food, beverage, art, color, but quite another to have one about technical/medical facts.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I also take issue with the forums he is choosing to voice his opinions at. The easy route for a scientist is to take your claims to alternative edgelord media who will fawn over people with credentials saying things that they want to hear. If he thought that he actually had ideas with merit, he would talk to scientists in science forums. He isn't doing that, he is cruising venues where he is unchallenged.

Pubmed indicates that he hasn't published anything this year about COVID-19 or anything else. Though TBF, he is emeritus (read: retired). My lab has been shuttered for large parts of the year and I have two publications out and waiting final word on a third. His total of 55 publications is good, but far from world class. The sobriquet 'world renowned' is dubious as I had never heard of him. I doubt he ever had much of a footprint outside of Germany then or now. Him being editor of a third tier medical journal is decent work, but again not something of a world class stature. And not surprisingly, a lot of his publications ended up at that very journal that he had a personal relationship with. Some have gotten published in second tier journals like J. Infect Dis, Blood, and J Biol Chem, but that is to be expected of most scientists.