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Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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J

jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
8,526
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Nomad said:
I think you're being bombastic with those examples; drinking & driving is against the law, shooting into a crowded room is against the law. These are all crimes punishable by the law. Refusing to take any one of the Covid vaccines is not a crime as Congress hasn't passed any legislation that aware of making it a crime to refuse the vaccine.

My main platform on the vaccine issue is simply informed consent; the ethical & legal obligation of medical practitioners involving the independent & voluntary decision of any medical procedure or intervention.

The administration of a vaccine is a medical intervention and falls under informed consent. People don't even have to give a reason - you can simply say no and it ends there. Perhaps you don't respect the fundamental principles of freedom in this country? (there's a growing movement in this country that think Americans have too many freedoms and would like to see change).

I see the freedom to make your own medical decisions on what you do to your body free from coercion as a very precious right that protects the individual from oppressive government that would no doubt put power & control over individual freedom.

Informed Consent - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Your main platform is selfishness. Well, and telling us how often you go to the gym.
 
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D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
3,967
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BlueRoads said:
Lol. You have problems. I can see the philosophical problem, but most countries long for vaccines, especially the ones you have, in many countries not even medical staff have been vaccinated and you are talking about whether vaccinations should be compulsory.
It's just weird for me to read this at this point.
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Not only that, but stock is starting to pile up here because of all the vaccine hesitancy. We, literally, can't give these things away. This is really embarrassing to witness. To see what the numbers look like in Israel and realize that we have little chance of accomplishing a similar feat is profoundly humbling.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382738371043278851
View: https://twitter.com/ArmstrongDrew/status/1382738371043278851
 
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U

Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
5,351
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BlueRoads said:
Lol. You have problems. I can see the philosophical problem, but most countries long for vaccines, especially the ones you have, in many countries not even medical staff have been vaccinated and you are talking about whether vaccinations should be compulsory.
It's just weird for me to read this at this point.
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I read this and get your point 1000%. I think that the expanding of information sources worldwide is certainly a contributor to the overall attitude and outcomes. We have some history about pandemics and yes they subsided, but not before death and extensive social craziness. In the United States, the message of life or death was spoken privately but was not part of the public pronouncements..Nobody will ever know what could have been different..Covid was ignored,downplayed or distorted for months,officially
Americans are widely known for excess..and it would be silly to think that vaccines and respect for life would suddenly be advanced in some impossible social shuffle..so we use the most fossil fuels,most food,water..and your observations about the cavalier attitude towards life saving medications was predicted..but it was never seriously discussed and certainly any distribution strategies were drafted on a golf score card or bar napkin.
The average American in my opinion doesn't want to see vaccines go to waste, and I further guess that a typical American would want them to be used regardless of the location if the trash can was the alternative..
You may find it necessary to point out how flip the U.S. outlook is debating the finer points of multiple vaccine options..thanks..but remember even if it wasn't said the absurdity is obvious to many
 
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J

jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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dusty red roads said:
www.pbs.org

Vaccines may help some ‘long COVID’ patients

Scientists who study the post-illness syndrome are taking a close look at patients’ reports of this unexpected benefit of the vaccine.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
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I've read a few things about this, some from scientists, and some just individual people. Tuesday I ran into an old friend on the trail who I hadn't seen in over a year. She got COVID in early April last year, and it has been pounding her ever since. She could only work about three hours a day and not always everyday. She obviously couldn't ride or workout. She got her first shot on valentines day, and said that she slowly started having 'better general function'. By the time she went in for her second dose she was 'feeling almost human' again. She's back on the dirt now, but not 100% because being sick that long takes its toll (especially with cardiac, pulmonary, nerve issues...yep she had all three hitting her).

Its just one anecdotal account. but real life for her.
 
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U

Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
5,351
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Pretty mixed bag, you don't want anyone to be a Covid longhauler but because there is such a thing, it's nice to hear that there are some that are out there making the most w what they have..
my neighbor is 39..lost 15 pounds and has not ridden his mountain bike in 8months..he bought it 10 months ago..has some cardiac issues,that were not caused but exacerbated by Covid.
 
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D

dusty red roads

Mar 21, 2015
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Unchained said:
Pretty mixed bag, you don't want anyone to be a Covid longhauler but because there is such a thing, it's nice to hear that there are some that are out there making the most w what they have..
my neighbor is 39..lost 15 pounds and has not ridden his mountain bike in 8months..he bought it 10 months ago..has some cardiac issues,that were not caused but exacerbated by Covid.
Click to expand...

Sad to hear. Hopefully the vax helps him once he gets it.
 
O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Unchained said:
I read this and get your point 1000%. I think that the expanding of information sources worldwide is certainly a contributor to the overall attitude and outcomes. We have some history about pandemics and yes they subsided, but not before death and extensive social craziness. In the United States, the message of life or death was spoken privately but was not part of the public pronouncements..Nobody will ever know what could have been different..Covid was ignored,downplayed or distorted for months,officially
Americans are widely known for excess..and it would be silly to think that vaccines and respect for life would suddenly be advanced in some impossible social shuffle..so we use the most fossil fuels,most food,water..and your observations about the cavalier attitude towards life saving medications was predicted..but it was never seriously discussed and certainly any distribution strategies were drafted on a golf score card or bar napkin.
The average American in my opinion doesn't want to see vaccines go to waste, and I further guess that a typical American would want them to be used regardless of the location if the trash can was the alternative..
You may find it necessary to point out how flip the U.S. outlook is debating the finer points of multiple vaccine options..thanks..but remember even if it wasn't said the absurdity is obvious to many
Click to expand...
The map of excess stockpile resembles political delineations pretty closely. Seeing interviews in a crowded restaurant in rural Texas where the group was asked if they would take the vaccine netted a resounding "no". Disinformation and the total lack of emphasis by certain political interests have much to do with this, IMO and it is absurd. Everyone must have the choice to either take or decline the vaccination opportunity but the BS out there is maddening. There is also the lack of interest in sparsely populated regions that isn't likely a product of any particular perspective other than "get off my lawn".
 
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U

Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
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Mexico will say otherwise but they have yet to ever get to @350,000 per day.As in the US,there is the ever present dynamic of vaccination for one thing while multiple variants till the void up front..kind of like painting a huge metal bridge that goes across an ocean bay,by the time you reach the end of one side the place you started already needs your attention.
I just flew from Tijuana to Monterrey..a few hour direct flight,3rd time flying since pandemic. The public on board announcement, in English and Spanish,said a face mask covering your nose and mouth was required,unless you were eating or drinking..possible fine for non compliance. The in-flight prices are excellent..I drank a little and enjoyed some Mexican Doritos which are a bit spicy compared with the American version..I would say that the mask mandate may be helpful..hard to see big impact..
On the way back a family of Roma, was on the flight,4 kids,2 adults..the father spoke very little Spanish,English or German..He and the whole family went 95% maskless and some people got moderately agitated..his two small boys..4and 5 enjoyed everything..including not wearing seat belts,physically leaning over the passenger next to them to watch Netflix on there tablet..the father told me that they were from Romania..he told me a bunch of other stuff. My Romanian is rusty but I think he said,you look fit,healthy and handsome,and you are one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life..but again my Romanian is not all that great so I may have a few things wrong..I also saw people I will assume were from Korea ...
My conclusion after my flight and Dirt's post is we better hurry up and get everyone vaccinated..because the variables in just my travel were frightening..I work and live in a population area @4 million..I flew to a city of @5.7..and a large international business contingent..and San Diego tourism will mathematically put more variables..so I don't see how anything,anyone can get a sense of safety if people are in a constant state of intersection.
The airport in TJ and Monterrey both use crime tape to keep seating and some areas intentionally social distant..but again w traffic flow didn't look all that effective..
I also think Roma dad liked me..he tried to buy his kids some cookies and they didn't except cash,he didn't have a card..I know a few things about need and want..cookies are an essential part of anybody's diet so I went all out and spent the 3 or 4 bucks..least I could do for a fellow cookie fan.
PS..2 adult round trip business class non stop tickets..$4350 mxp@$218 bucks..Airbus we flew on was brand new..
 
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Tricycle Rider

Tricycle Rider

Feb 9, 2013
7,198
8,668
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Unchained said:
My Romanian is rusty but I think he said,you look fit,healthy and handsome,and you are one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life..but again my Romanian is not all that great so I may have a few things wrong...

I also think Roma dad liked me..he tried to buy his kids some cookies and they didn't except cash,he didn't have a card..I know a few things about need and want..cookies are an essential part of anybody's diet so I went all out and spent the 3 or 4 bucks..least I could do for a fellow cookie fan...
Click to expand...
At least these parts made me chuckle, gotta keep a sense of humor in this global mess.
 
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O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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jmdirt said:
Its a strange mentality: Those who demand the most are willing to do the least.
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There is a level of political cynicism/opportunism I've seldom seen in my lifetime. Both US parties take advantage whenever possible to widen the divisions although the current Presidential Admin has done much to undo the legacy they inherited. They just don't seem effective getting bilateral support. Poseurs like DeSantis, Cruz.....keeping in the mix to raise money off of misery. When John Boehner is disgusted you know it's bad.
 
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