Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Then why vaccinated people are that much afraid of those unvaccinated and try to make everyone do that so hard?

We've been told all the time, that vaccination is not only about caring about yourself, but mainly about taking responsibility for others, which clearly isn't 100% true, because you can still infect others (yes the risk might be lower, but we still don't know how much).
So it turns out, that in fact vaccination is actually mostly a "selfish" thing and the aspect of "protecting" other people by doing so has been overrated and unfairly used to push the vaccination. That's my point.

I would still think that less transmissions x less infections x less severe desease gives quite a good multiplier effect, also for the society in general.

But yeah, I can basically only comment on how it's communicated over here (in Germany), but I also had the impression that there's been put too much emphasis on the increased transmission non-vaccination comes with, leading to some kind of "fear". There's likely to still be truth in it, but with the currently high infection-risk, most mandates now are probably more aiming at unvaccinated to stay at home - not because of the risk they come with, but to prevent them from all getting infected at the same time - which makes sense to me.

 

[limak_]

The scientific community, health/medical community, Bill Gates, etc. are out to get us. Joe Rogan is a doctor and a god. SARS-CoV-2 is a hoax.

I think this part of your post is unnecessary but it's also kinda funny how often people with sligthly diffrent perspective like mine are being straight away made into covid cranks (?). I can't see other reason for you to include this.

It's the next time when you're wasting your time to "answer" me, when actually you're not directly answering any of my questions or discuss any of my points. Instead, you're just saying that according to you, all of them have been already throroughly explained and that you don't have to prove me anything cause you have your own reliable and complete sources of information.
Then I find responses like this quite pointless and I'd rather want you not to bother yourself with answering me at all if that's the only way you're able to do that.

 

[jmdirt]

I think this part of your post is unnecessary but it's also kinda funny how often people with sligthly diffrent perspective like mine are being straight away made into covid cranks (?). I can't see other reason for you to include this.

It's the next time when you're wasting your time to "answer" me, when actually you're not directly answering any of my questions or discuss any of my points. Instead, you're just saying that according to you, all of them have been already throroughly explained and that you don't have to prove me anything cause you have your own reliable and complete sources of information.
Then I find responses like this quite pointless and I'd rather want you not to bother yourself with answering me at all if that's the only way you're able to do that.

We've had 5 or 6 other people pop in with loaded questions including "why are vaccinated people scared of unvaccinated people", they post two or three times and have not been back since so forgive for being grumpy, but many of the answers are already available in this thread, but obviously elsewhere because none of us are doing the research. While its tough to 'feel' via internet posts, your question come across as a 'covid crank'. Maybe I misread... As per your request I won't answer you anymore.

 

[limak_]

We've had 5 or 6 other people pop in with loaded questions including "why are vaccinated people scared of unvaccinated people", they post two or three times and have not been back since so forgive for being grumpy, but many of the answers are already available in this thread, but obviously elsewhere because none of us are doing the research. While its tough to 'feel' via internet posts, your question come across as a 'covid crank'. Maybe I misread... As per your request I won't answer you anymore.

Ok, so you picked just one small part of my statement and reduced my whole standpoint to it (btw I used this question more figuratively, should've probably put it like "why are vaccinated people act as they were scared of unvaccinated people"), while ignoring all other points I made. I asked this question in a specific context, after clearly explaining what my whole point is about. I didn't just "pop in" with some loaded questions and leave it like that.

Just FYI, I'm all for vaccination of elderly people as well as those being at higher risk of severe symptoms of covid. I'm more skeptical of obligatory vaccination of young, healthy people (not even mention kids), becasue in these groups the benefit vs risk ratio is less positive. All I'm against is forcing anoyne in any way to be vaccinated, manipulating the facts in favour of vaccines and discriminating those who rightfully refused to get this vaccine (btw 99% of them aren't "antivaxxers" per se, but they're just skeptical about this one particular, covid vaccine).

I'd really like you to answer me, because (from your posts) I assume that you're probably much more widely-knowledgable in this topic and it's very likely that you could dispel some of my doubts. It just would be nice if you'd actually refer to what I'm saying, not just pick some single sentences and trying to convince me that my thinking is just like one of the covid cranks.

 

[yaco]

I think this part of your post is unnecessary but it's also kinda funny how often people with sligthly diffrent perspective like mine are being straight away made into covid cranks (?). I can't see other reason for you to include this.

It's the next time when you're wasting your time to "answer" me, when actually you're not directly answering any of my questions or discuss any of my points. Instead, you're just saying that according to you, all of them have been already throroughly explained and that you don't have to prove me anything cause you have your own reliable and complete sources of information.
Then I find responses like this quite pointless and I'd rather want you not to bother yourself with answering me at all if that's the only way you're able to do that.

I wouldn't worry about JMDirt - They criticise who they determine to be Anti-Vaxxers for their closed minds BUT in their arguments they do exactly the same - Whether it's pro-vaxxer or anti vaxxer, many fail to see the nuances in a particular situation - It's their way or the highway.

Anyway you have made some well-thought out posts discussing an issue which some wish will go away.

 

[BlueRoads]

Yes, from my simiraily non-professional perspective, I agree with you. But then, following this logic, in the unvaccinated group (with or without natural immunity) the risk of being infected while having pizza is also lower than in case of living with an infected person at home. So this implies that the numbers of infections (outside of the households) should be generally lower in both groups, but we still don't know if the difference between the groups would change in any direction.



Then why vaccinated people are that much afraid of those unvaccinated and try to make everyone do that so hard?

We've been told all the time, that vaccination is not only about caring about yourself, but mainly about taking responsibility for others, which clearly isn't 100% true, because you can still infect others (yes the risk might be lower, but we still don't know how much).
So it turns out, that in fact vaccination is actually mostly a "selfish" thing and the aspect of "protecting" other people by doing so has been overrated and unfairly used to push the vaccination. That's my point.

@limak_ To start with I don't regard you as any crank, in other discussions I have gotten to know you as someone who one can discuss with very well, you are thoughtful and friendly and certainly not stupid.

But I cannot give you any studies, instead I will answer with a passage mostly about me:
I don't usually read the studies myself, I have some basic trust in the media and institutes, and I think the general opinion is still that vaccinated people (at least with BionTech and Moderna) are a lot less likely to transmit the virus, even if the effect might not be as strong as hoped for.

Basically, I don't care if other people get vaccinated, I consider myself, though not necessarily in a political sense, quite a liberal, but I have to admit that I am starting to lose patience since there is so much talk about new restrictions for everyone because too many are unvaccinated. There are just too many people coming to the hospitals. Vaccinations reduce the probability of that. So what's the big deal with the vaccinations? I have some sympathy for "I don't want state and companies to force me into anything", but I simply don't see the issue with just getting vaccinated if it helps the health system and therefor other people.
The other possibilities I see are indeed pay for yourself, if you are unvaccinated and get Covid go home and treat it on your own there. This is absolutely impossible to enforce here. So the only way out for all of us is that people get vaccinated, and I don't understand the fear of long term effects at all. I have no medical insight, but it seems pretty clear to me that there is no reason why the information that is put into your body by mrna vaccinations should have any long term effects. It affects a very reduced mechanism in our bodies. Even if there are negative effects, the probability of negative long or short term effects of Covid is definitely not lower.
I look at this quite simply - I don't see the big deal. Nothing in life is 100% sure, but from the information we have catching Covid without vaccination is a bigger danger for at least everyone above 35. And it helps to keep the health care system working if people get vaccinated. Why not make such a big deal out of the other big (bigger) dangers our world is facing, which I can't talk about here because of the forum rules? I simply don't get it.
I know I am totally not willing to have another lockdown and I think working this out on the backs of the children is not an option either.

 

[limak_]

@limak_ To start with I don't regard you as any crank, in other discussions I have gotten to know you as someone who one can discuss with very well, you are thoughtful and friendly and certainly not stupid.

But I cannot give you any studies, instead I will answer with a passage mostly about me:
I don't usually read the studies myself, I have some basic trust in the media and institutes, and I think the general opinion is still that vaccinated people (at least with BionTech and Moderna) are a lot less likely to transmit the virus, even if the effect might not be as strong as hoped for.

Basically, I don't care if other people get vaccinated, I consider myself, though not necessarily in a political sense, quite a liberal, but I have to admit that I am starting to lose patience since there is so much talk about new restrictions for everyone because too many are unvaccinated. There are just too many people coming to the hospitals. Vaccinations reduce the probability of that. So what's the big deal with the vaccinations? I have some sympathy for "I don't want state and companies to force me into anything", but I simply don't see the issue with just getting vaccinated if it helps the health system and therefor other people.
The other possibilities I see are indeed pay for yourself, if you are unvaccinated and get Covid go home and treat it on your own there. This is absolutely impossible to enforce here. So the only way out for all of us is that people get vaccinated, and I don't understand the fear of long term effects at all. I have no medical insight, but it seems pretty clear to me that there is no reason why the information that is put into your body by mrna vaccinations should have any long term effects. It affects a very reduced mechanism in our bodies. Even if there are negative effects, the probability of negative long or short term effects of Covid is definitely not lower.
I look at this quite simply - I don't see the big deal. Nothing in life is 100% sure, but from the information we have catching Covid without vaccination is a bigger danger for at least everyone above 35. And it helps to keep the health care system working if people get vaccinated. Why not make such a big deal out of the other big (bigger) dangers our world is facing, which I can't talk about here because of the forum rules? I simply don't get it.
I know I am totally not willing to have another lockdown and I think working this out on the backs of the children is not an option either.

Thank you for your comprehensive response @BlueRoads (and some nice words about my person; I felt really flattered but also kinda surprised cause I'm totally aware I may come across as quite arrogant and biting in some of the discussions )

I have to admit I understand and even rather mostly agree with your thinking process as such.
Although I might definitely have less trust in the "media and institutes" as well as I'm surely less "beliving" kind of person and much more of an asking questions and generally skeptical about everything kind of one. And that's probably why my approach to vaccination is "slightly" different than yours.

Apart from that I generally follow the rule that the end doesn't justify the means and this imo happens quite often if we take a look at the whole process of advertising the covid vaccines and encouraging people to take them.

 

[Nomad]

The doctor is 50 and over weight. He is a high risk demo. He'll be fine if he gets canned. He could join Kulldorf at that new thinktank. And there are plenty who would be happy to assume his position if it were vacated.

His argument is non-sensical. Basically saying that we shouldn't vaccinate because it will prevent people from being infected. Just bonkers.

I'm 60 & muscular and survived the Delta variant without needing any medical intervention - so I don't understand your point? Is Memoli really a high-risk demo? How overweight? We don't know anything about his nutritional habits, supplementation, excercise program, etc. Remember that according to the MSM, being unvaccinated & contracting Delta at my age, I should have died or at the very least be fighting for my life in an ICU.

I think you're just apoplectic with Memoli for opposing Fauci & the fact that he goes against the grain in that profession declining the vaccine. Memoli says "he does vaccine trials - he helps create vaccines," - wouldn't you be interested in his thoughts on the safety of the vaccines if this is the issue concerning his hesitancy? And his argument is that he doesn't support the vaccination of low-risk communities. I wonder myself why the push to vaccinate the children & teens - by far the lowest risk group to die or suffer severe disease (the death rate is almost non-existent).

And speaking of Kulldorff (another expert you despise because you don't agree with him), he breaks down the Israeli & CDC studies on natural immunity:

A Review and Autopsy of Two COVID Immunity Studies ⋆ Brownstone Institute

I have never before seen such a large discrepancy between immunity studies that are supposed to answer the same question.

brownstone.org

"Based on the solid evidence from the Israeli study, the Covid recovered have stronger and longer-lasting immunity against Covid disease than the vaccinated. Hence, there is no reason to prevent them from activities that are permitted to the vaccinated. In fact, it is discriminatory."

And 30 plus studies showing the benefit of naturally-acquired immunity:

Natural Immunity and Covid-19: Thirty Scientific Studies to Share with Employers, Health Officials, and Politicians ⋆ Brownstone Institute

Studies demonstrating what was and is already known: natural immunity for a SARS-type virus is robust, long-lasting, and broadly effective.

brownstone.org

Amazing how the vaxx czar is so obstinate to the power of natural immunity, and continues with his agenda of vaccinating every man, woman & child in this country regardless of any other circumstances.

 

[Nomad]

"Source: Minnesota Vikings' Dakota Dozier hospitalized for COVID-19 issues:"

Weiterleitungshinweis

What the heck? He's been vaccinated! When I first saw the headline I thought this must be an unvaccinated player that the NFL is going to make an example of. But he's been vaccinated! - that's not suppose to happen according to the "experts." What gives?

You can't have people ending up in the hospital from the disease you're vaccinating against - a complete failure in this case.

 

[jmdirt]

@limak_ To start with I don't regard you as any crank, in other discussions I have gotten to know you as someone who one can discuss with very well, you are thoughtful and friendly and certainly not stupid.

But I cannot give you any studies, instead I will answer with a passage mostly about me:
I don't usually read the studies myself, I have some basic trust in the media and institutes, and I think the general opinion is still that vaccinated people (at least with BionTech and Moderna) are a lot less likely to transmit the virus, even if the effect might not be as strong as hoped for.

Basically, I don't care if other people get vaccinated, I consider myself, though not necessarily in a political sense, quite a liberal, but I have to admit that I am starting to lose patience since there is so much talk about new restrictions for everyone because too many are unvaccinated. There are just too many people coming to the hospitals. Vaccinations reduce the probability of that. So what's the big deal with the vaccinations? I have some sympathy for "I don't want state and companies to force me into anything", but I simply don't see the issue with just getting vaccinated if it helps the health system and therefor other people.
The other possibilities I see are indeed pay for yourself, if you are unvaccinated and get Covid go home and treat it on your own there. This is absolutely impossible to enforce here. So the only way out for all of us is that people get vaccinated, and I don't understand the fear of long term effects at all. I have no medical insight, but it seems pretty clear to me that there is no reason why the information that is put into your body by mrna vaccinations should have any long term effects. It affects a very reduced mechanism in our bodies. Even if there are negative effects, the probability of negative long or short term effects of Covid is definitely not lower.
I look at this quite simply - I don't see the big deal. Nothing in life is 100% sure, but from the information we have catching Covid without vaccination is a bigger danger for at least everyone above 35. And it helps to keep the health care system working if people get vaccinated. Why not make such a big deal out of the other big (bigger) dangers our world is facing, which I can't talk about here because of the forum rules? I simply don't get it.
I know I am totally not willing to have another lockdown and I think working this out on the backs of the children is not an option either.

I generally agree with what you are saying. 'Media' has become a monster with no solid definition, but as you know, if you shop around a bit and compare, it can be useful. I viewed Twitter as a recreational media format before the pandemic, but several/many docs have used it to reach the masses so I view it with a little more usefulness now (its still plenty black hole though). Obviously a Tweet is pretty slim information, but most include the link to the research/journal. I feel like the institutions, in the USA anyway, have become too politicized, and too "public friendly" so the information only has limited use IMO. It can still be useful though.

IMO, if we want this thing to go away (to the level other things) more people have to help out.

Maybe as time passes, and people see vaccinated people who haven't had issues they will feel better about the vaccine(s). Or what the TV preacher said will come true and all of the vaccinated people will be dead by 2025.

 

[Ultrairon]

I generally agree with what you are saying. 'Media' has become a monster with no solid definition, but as you know, if you shop around a bit and compare, it can be useful. I viewed Twitter as a recreational media format before the pandemic, but several/many docs have used it to reach the masses so I view it with a little more usefulness now (its still plenty black hole though). Obviously a Tweet is pretty slim information, but most include the link to the research/journal. I feel like the institutions, in the USA anyway, have become too politicized, and too "public friendly" so the information only has limited use IMO. It can still be useful though.

IMO, if we want this thing to go away (to the level other things) more people have to help out.

Maybe as time passes, and people see vaccinated people who haven't had issues they will feel better about the vaccine(s). Or what the TV preacher said will come true and all of the vaccinated people will be dead by 2025.

Was good until you Just had to make a snide swipe at people.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I'm 60 & muscular and survived the Delta variant without needing any medical intervention - so I don't understand your point? Is Memoli really a high-risk demo? How overweight? We don't know anything about his nutritional habits, supplementation, excercise program, etc. Remember that according to the MSM, being unvaccinated & contracting Delta at my age, I should have died or at the very least be fighting for my life in an ICU.

I think you're just apoplectic with Memoli for opposing Fauci & the fact that he goes against the grain in that profession declining the vaccine. Memoli says "he does vaccine trials - he helps create vaccines," - wouldn't you be interested in his thoughts on the safety of the vaccines if this is the issue concerning his hesitancy? And his argument is that he doesn't support the vaccination of low-risk communities. I wonder myself why the push to vaccinate the children & teens - by far the lowest risk group to die or suffer severe disease (the death rate is almost non-existent).

And speaking of Kulldorff (another expert you despise because you don't agree with him), he breaks down the Israeli & CDC studies on natural immunity:

A Review and Autopsy of Two COVID Immunity Studies ⋆ Brownstone Institute

I have never before seen such a large discrepancy between immunity studies that are supposed to answer the same question.

brownstone.org

"Based on the solid evidence from the Israeli study, the Covid recovered have stronger and longer-lasting immunity against Covid disease than the vaccinated. Hence, there is no reason to prevent them from activities that are permitted to the vaccinated. In fact, it is discriminatory."

And 30 plus studies showing the benefit of naturally-acquired immunity:

Natural Immunity and Covid-19: Thirty Scientific Studies to Share with Employers, Health Officials, and Politicians ⋆ Brownstone Institute

Studies demonstrating what was and is already known: natural immunity for a SARS-type virus is robust, long-lasting, and broadly effective.

brownstone.org

Amazing how the vaxx czar is so obstinate to the power of natural immunity, and continues with his agenda of vaccinating every man, woman & child in this country regardless of any other circumstances.

We'll see what he has to say in the forum. The quotes might not be representative, but he certainly sounds like a herd immunity proponent. He might want to peruse the article below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458282227456897039

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/AdrianaBarton/status/1458282227456897039

I wouldn't worry about JMDirt - They criticise who they determine to be Anti-Vaxxers for their closed minds BUT in their arguments they do exactly the same - Whether it's pro-vaxxer or anti vaxxer, many fail to see the nuances in a particular situation - It's their way or the highway.

Anyway you have made some well-thought out posts discussing an issue which some wish will go away.

What parts were well thought out? This thread may not be full of antivaxxers, but you can see how thoroughly their arguments permeate the discussion. Long term side-effect fears, discrimination of the unvaccinated, paeans to natural immunity, and anecdotal stories about vaccinated people hospitalized. All that posted within the last day and all staples of antivax messaging. Look at what is happening in Eastern Europe where vaccination rates are low (i.e. Romania) and tell me with a straight face that vaccines aren't highly effective and safe. Or that people are better off seeing the virus to build their immunity.

Here is an interesting one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458495010551255044

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/stuartjdneil/status/1458495010551255044

 

[FrankB]

'The Booster Shot Had Absolutely No Side Effects,' Says Gavin Newsom's Second Head

SACRAMENTO, CA—Two weeks after receiving a vaccine booster then abruptly disappearing from public view, California Governor Gavin Newsom emerged from his home. Looking as shiny and healthy as ever, the governor reassured Californians that the COVID-19 booster shot was safe and effective.

babylonbee.com

Vax dangers are real !!!!

 

[Ultrairon]

We'll see what he has to say in the forum. The quotes might not be representative, but he certainly sounds like a herd immunity proponent. He might want to peruse the article below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458282227456897039

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/AdrianaBarton/status/1458282227456897039



What parts were well thought out? This thread may not be full of antivaxxers, but you can see how thoroughly their arguments permeate the discussion. Long term side-effect fears, discrimination of the unvaccinated, paeans to natural immunity, and anecdotal stories about vaccinated people hospitalized. All that posted within the last day and all staples of antivax messaging. Look at what is happening in Eastern Europe where vaccination rates are low (i.e. Romania) and tell me with a straight face that vaccines aren't highly effective and safe. Or that people are better off seeing the virus to build their immunity.

Here is an interesting one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458495010551255044

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/stuartjdneil/status/1458495010551255044

spiking the football after another covid death. Poor form.

 

[Ultrairon]

'The Booster Shot Had Absolutely No Side Effects,' Says Gavin Newsom's Second Head

SACRAMENTO, CA—Two weeks after receiving a vaccine booster then abruptly disappearing from public view, California Governor Gavin Newsom emerged from his home. Looking as shiny and healthy as ever, the governor reassured Californians that the COVID-19 booster shot was safe and effective.

babylonbee.com

Vax dangers are real !!!!

Seriously though he took the booster and the flu vax at the same time and I read somewhere that a source said he had some severe fatigue and muscle issues afterwards.

 

[movingtarget]

People testing negative for Covid-19 despite exposure may have ‘immune memory’

Study says some individuals clear virus rapidly due to a strong immune response from existing T-cells, meaning tests record negative result

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

Sober read. The names and the places change, but the same story gets repeated over and over. But, yeah, let's worry about their precious fee-fees.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1457698339626131465

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1457698339626131465


This whole thing was forseeable. From May.

Sars2 is an endemic human pathogen now. People who don't get vaccinated should expect to be infected sooner or later just like everyone gets infected with the flu. I think this winter will be a bad one for the unvaccinated.

 

[Koronin]

Seriously though he took the booster and the flu vax at the same time and I read somewhere that a source said he had some severe fatigue and muscle issues afterwards.

The only thing I've heard anyone say at all about this is the pharmacist at the drug store my mom uses. He advised my mom to wait at least 30 days after getting the flu shot to get the Covid booster shot. No idea why, but that's what he's been advising those who use that pharmacy. So no real information and just an anecdote.

 

[Keram]

Sober read. The names and the places change, but the same story gets repeated over and over. But, yeah, let's worry about their precious fee-fees.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1457698339626131465

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1457698339626131465


This whole thing was forseeable. From May.

Slovakia next. We already had this prime position sometime in jaunuary, february. I dont know how somebody can be so utterly stupid when refuse a vaccine in this situation. Especially seniors. Now in the situation with storages full of efficient vaccines. They literally playing russian roulette.

 

[yaco]

We'll see what he has to say in the forum. The quotes might not be representative, but he certainly sounds like a herd immunity proponent. He might want to peruse the article below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458282227456897039

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/AdrianaBarton/status/1458282227456897039



What parts were well thought out? This thread may not be full of antivaxxers, but you can see how thoroughly their arguments permeate the discussion. Long term side-effect fears, discrimination of the unvaccinated, paeans to natural immunity, and anecdotal stories about vaccinated people hospitalized. All that posted within the last day and all staples of antivax messaging. Look at what is happening in Eastern Europe where vaccination rates are low (i.e. Romania) and tell me with a straight face that vaccines aren't highly effective and safe. Or that people are better off seeing the virus to build their immunity.

Here is an interesting one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458495010551255044

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/stuartjdneil/status/1458495010551255044

The relevance of my post is that people from both sides of the argument whether pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine have strident and unflinching views which they try to impose on others - There is never any nuance in the discussion and this is far wider than just discussing vaccines.

For example, I have never asked anyone if they have been vaccinated, nor will I in the future - And I most certainly will not impose my views on others - I am satisfied to allow people to live their life as they see fit.

 

[yaco]

Slovakia next. We already had this prime position sometime in jaunuary, february. I dont know how somebody can be so utterly stupid when refuse a vaccine in this situation. Especially seniors. Now in the situation with storages full of efficient vaccines. They literally playing russian roulette.

I can give you a multitude of reasons - I live in Hong Kong which has remained relatively COVID free - Do you know the vaccination rate for 80+ and 70-79 age group ? For the 80+ cohort the vaccination rate is 17%, while for the 70-79 year it is 43% - Delve even further to find the 60-69 cohort are at 63%, while the other age groups are between 72 to 83%.

Why is this happening - I can think of two reasons - Medical practitioners in HK are conservative, so worry about the long-term effects of vaccines - It is illogical because if you are 70+ group you will be dead if there are long-term side effects - There is also the attitude in parts of Asia where if you reach 70 you've had a good life, so what ever happens is fate.

 

[jmdirt]

The only thing I've heard anyone say at all about this is the pharmacist at the drug store my mom uses. He advised my mom to wait at least 30 days after getting the flu shot to get the Covid booster shot. No idea why, but that's what he's been advising those who use that pharmacy. So no real information and just an anecdote.

My wife just got her booster and flu shot yesterday from her doctor (who is part of a large medical group). EDIT: They wouldn't let her get them both in the same arm though.

 

[Nomad]

We'll see what he has to say in the forum. The quotes might not be representative, but he certainly sounds like a herd immunity proponent.

Of course, but why is a top expert in his field with impeccable credentials, who's obviously pro-vaxx, stating that he's willing to risk his job over the NIH vaccine mandate? Is he concerned with the safety of the vaccines? Does he feel that the risks of the vaccine outweigh the benefits? Since he says that he "helps create vaccines" he must know something about these Covid vaccines that's spooked him into not wanting anything to do with them.

Senior NIH expert pushes back on growing vaccine mandates

Matthew Memoli favors vaccinations in vulnerable populations but argues population level vaccination could hinder the development of a natural, robust immunity gained through infection.

www.google.com

Matthew J. Memoli, M.D., M.S.

Matthew J. Memoli, M.D., M.S. is the Director of the Laboratory of Infectious Diseases (LID) Clinical Studies Unit (CSU). The LID CSU seeks to perform translational research studies to answer fundamental questions regarding human influenza and other emerging viral infections to inform and impact...

www.niaid.nih.gov

In addition, there's an MD out of Piedmont Hospital, Atlanta, who was fired for declining the vaccine per the hospital's mandate: Dr. Tommy Redwood, former medical director of emergency services at Kennestone MC and ER physician at Piedmont, says he's not anti-vaxx and states "It's too soon to know what long-term implications this vaccine could have."

View: https://youtu.be/VTfO0GYMbCU


The irony of all of this is you have a top infectious disease expert working under Fauci and a board-certified veteran ER physician expressing concerns over the vaccines - when the rest of us who are vaccine hesitant, and express the same safety concerns, are smeard by Liberal leadership & the MSM as anti-vaxx lunatics, idiots, irresponsible citizens, not following the science, tinfoil hat wearers, conspiracy theorists, ignorant right-wingers, Trump supporters and UnAmerican! Lol.

 

[djpbaltimore]

The relevance of my post is that people from both sides of the argument whether pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine have strident and unflinching views which they try to impose on others - There is never any nuance in the discussion and this is far wider than just discussing vaccines.

For example, I have never asked anyone if they have been vaccinated, nor will I in the future - And I most certainly will not impose my views on others - I am satisfied to allow people to live their life as they see fit.

Fair points.

One last comment about the post about equivalent virus in vaxxed or unvaxxed. That is based on RNA detection and other studies have suggested the opposite, so it isn't settled. Secondly, the lead author said that you can't extrapolate that to mean equivalent infectiousness. The pcr cannot tell the difference between infectious viral particles and spent RNA remnants. IMO, vaxxed people likely are shedding virus coated in antibody for a shorter duration, meaning that they probably transmit less than the unvaxxed.

Of course, but why is a top expert in his field with impeccable credentials, who's obviously pro-vaxx, stating that he's willing to risk his job over the NIH vaccine mandate? Is he concerned with the safety of the vaccines? Does he feel that the risks of the vaccine outweigh the benefits? Since he says that he "helps create vaccines" he must know something about these Covid vaccines that's spooked him into not wanting anything to do with them.

Senior NIH expert pushes back on growing vaccine mandates

Matthew Memoli favors vaccinations in vulnerable populations but argues population level vaccination could hinder the development of a natural, robust immunity gained through infection.

www.google.com

Matthew J. Memoli, M.D., M.S.

Matthew J. Memoli, M.D., M.S. is the Director of the Laboratory of Infectious Diseases (LID) Clinical Studies Unit (CSU). The LID CSU seeks to perform translational research studies to answer fundamental questions regarding human influenza and other emerging viral infections to inform and impact...

www.niaid.nih.gov

In addition, there's an MD out of Piedmont Hospital, Atlanta, who was fired for declining the vaccine per the hospital's mandate: Dr. Tommy Redwood, former medical director of emergency services at Kennestone MC and ER physician at Piedmont, says he's not anti-vaxx and states "It's too soon to know what long-term implications this vaccine could have."

View: https://youtu.be/VTfO0GYMbCU


The irony of all of this is you have a top infectious disease expert working under Fauci and a board-certified veteran ER physician expressing concerns over the vaccines - when the rest of us who are vaccine hesitant, and express the same safety concerns, are smeard by Liberal leadership & the MSM as anti-vaxx lunatics, idiots, irresponsible citizens, not following the science, tinfoil hat wearers, conspiracy theorists, ignorant right-wingers, Trump supporters and UnAmerican! Lol.

I don't have access to the WSJ, but it sounds like he is seeking a religious exemption. But, let's be honest, he is in a position to make a principled stand because he can easily find other work and probably already has something lined up.

I got my Pfizer booster this morning. The questionnaire asked what group I qualified for, but nobody checked. If you are in the US, it is a great time to top up your 5g nanobots for the holidays.

 

[Oldermanish]

"Source: Minnesota Vikings' Dakota Dozier hospitalized for COVID-19 issues:"

Weiterleitungshinweis

What the heck? He's been vaccinated! When I first saw the headline I thought this must be an unvaccinated player that the NFL is going to make an example of. But he's been vaccinated! - that's not suppose to happen according to the "experts." What gives?

You can't have people ending up in the hospital from the disease you're vaccinating against - a complete failure in this case.

Mr. Dozier is a 300(+) lb offensive lineman. If he's had any history of pneumonia, diabetes, etc. he would be a perfect candidate for a more severe response if picked up Delta. Not a complete fail as immunization has never been the shield you might imply. Not much to get excited about here, is there?