Could a clean Cadel Evans get 2nd on uphill TT in Giro?

[Pantani_lives]

Surprisingly Garzelli would only have been seventh in the same time trial two years ago, behind people like Pellizotti, Sella and Ricco.

 

[hughmoore]

Surprisingly Garzelli would only have been seventh in the same time trial two years ago, behind people like Pellizotti, Sella and Ricco.

Are the start and finish the same as last time. Just look at the times, Evans would have been well down based on the previous times.




Hugh

Go Cuddles!

 

[Hillavoider]

Evans looks clean enough, however he talks like all the other dopers, tows the same line, trains the same way, been linked to same teams, same doctors, same....

 

[Notso Swift]

Let's get a grip.

Unfortunately way too many here do have a grip

Evans has been tested regularly for the past 15 years starting with the AIS and the blood profiles are pretty much consistent to this day. Of course as a Junior on the far side of the world he would have had excellent access to gear in order to fool the system
(Let me be quite clear I am taking the pi$$ on this one)

Couple of years ago I remember Boonan at the TdF making a quote that he thought Evans to be the cleanest rider in the Pro peloton, now big Tom may not have made the best decisions himself but all pro's have a good idea who is on the gear and no one has ever questioned Evans as being on the edge.


You want to know something funny, I never knew what a Troll was until I came to this forum, I always thought they were mythical creatures that lived under bridges.

 

[dr_wok]

Boonen's 2007 comments

It doesn't purely relate to this stage, but I always think of Boonen's comments in 2007 when he singled Cadel out from Contador, Leipheimer and the other Tour contenders as someone he believed was clean. Why would he say that unless he believed it? It's not as if Cuddles was great buddies with anyone.

And in a major show of support for the Australian, now sitting second overall, sprinter Tom Boonen said that of the favourites left in the race, Evans is one of the riders he still trusts.

"I have given up my belief in most of the rest," the man on course to win the green sprinters' jersey said.

"It is possible to ride the Tour without doping. And to ride and win, too. And Cadel Evans proves in my eyes that you could win it without doping."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...l-tours-big-hope/story-e6frewti-1111114047088

 

[Ferminal]

He probably isn't on transfusions, but that doesn't mean he's clean.

Same for Basso.

Garzelli probably got a top up...

 

[Runitout]

I would agree.

If it wasn't the only top french rider who I have for years been 100% sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is up to no good.

Phew! For a while there I thought you were talking about Moncoutie. He is the one name racing I would think may be clean.

I would also think that Gadret and Dessel are singing from exactly the same hymn sheet, no?

edit - oh, and I don't think Evans is clean. But coming second up Kronplatz is not why.

 

[Barracuda]

Yes he just did........................(Sorry if someone else has already posted this response)............Cadel=Clean..

Exactly ... I rest my case your honour.

No further questions from the prosecution.

Whatever happened to Innocent till proven guilty.

He's a bloody champ and who cares if his head is too big for his body..

Move away from the dog and nobody gets hurt.!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Phew! For a while there I thought you were talking about Moncoutie. He is the one name racing I would think may be clean.

I would also think that Gadret and Dessel are singing from exactly the same hymn sheet, no?

edit - oh, and I don't think Evans is clean. But coming second up Kronplatz is not why.

I think cadel was clean at lotto, but i dont trust john lelaunge

 

[42x16ss]

I don't know why but I have the impression that Evans is either squeaky clean or one of the very worst dopers in the peloton.

He did ride for Mapei and T-Mobile, but apart from a Giro start he was either injured, or snubbed by his team come GT time - take the '04 TdF for example.

I suspect that as a result he is either clean and was on the outer for not doping (ie. not taking part in the T-Mobile program), or he has taken things into his own hands.

Just the fact that he never does anything OTT on the bike with "fingers in the nose" and has genuine off days where he has been shown to be human, unlike a lot of past dopers.

Not saying he is pristine, just at one end of the spectrum or the other.

 

[BroDeal]

He did ride for Mapei and T-Mobile, but apart from a Giro start he was either injured, or snubbed by his team come GT time - take the '04 TdF for example.

I suspect that as a result he is either clean and was on the outer for not doping (ie. not taking part in the T-Mobile program), or he has taken things into his own hands.

I suspect that the reason why Evans never rode the TdF for T-Mob was that he often does not get along with his teammates. Ullrich and his support crew were all good friends. There were plans for Ullrich to go to Astana, but it never happened because he was forced into retirement. I don't think leaving Evans off the TdF squads had anything to do with doping.

 

[PACONi]

I don't get this thread!

It was a short stage, after a rest day. If a clean rider was going to do well, then this would be his chance. Also, he didn't even win!!

I don't think he's packing blood bags as TFF put it, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't on some kind of recovery therapy.

Why no blood bags? I'm going off what was in his book, where he claimed to have stable HCT figures all year, every year.

 

[pmsc111]

Pat McQuaid said Cadel & Basso are 100% clean. You've got to believe him don't you?

 

[Martin318is]

Pat McQuaid said Cadel & Basso are 100% clean. You've got to believe him don't you?

I don't think even Pat cares what Pat thinks but the fact remains that the result Evans achieved in the time-trial was entirely plausible.

What I find strange is this suggestion that Evans must be dirty to finish in that position when its about 42seconds behind a standalone winner and nearly 2mins slower than the last winner. Why single out Evans and not Garzelli as the more likely candidate? (probably because he also was a fair bit slower than the previous winner? - but then we now know that the previous winner was most likely doped....)

So we are left with - Evans finished well down compared to last time when the winner was doped, so if he is doped now he must be doing a very bad job of it OR that he and many of those around him are clean(ish) now..

 

[brianf7]

You only have to ride in the local club race to know if someone suddenly grows leggs its that simple.

 

[Arno Sluismans]

Cadel has been my favourite rider for years, and I was starting to doubt as well... Seeing him attack with power he never seemed to have had before was quite suspicious. But the Zoncolan relieved my worries. It was Cadel, the way Cadel had always been: suffering deeply, only barely being able to keep up with the masters, and getting there because of his willpower. If he would be doping himself, he would not ride like that any more; doped climbers usually take a very Virenque-like style that makes them seem like they aren't really bothered about how hard the climb is. Cadel still suffers more than anybody else from the moment they are climbing, and to me, that's enough evidence for his innocence.

Also, I still strongly believe in his chances to win this Giro. I'd love to see him win.

 

[Von Mises]

It doesn't purely relate to this stage, but I always think of Boonen's comments in 2007 when he singled Cadel out from Contador, Leipheimer and the other Tour contenders as someone he believed was clean. Why would he say that unless he believed it?

You don´t know why would Boonen say that? It´s obvious. Boonen is xenophobe who loves english-speaking riders and hates everyone else?

 

[karlboss]

I don't think even Pat cares what Pat thinks but the fact remains that the result Evans achieved in the time-trial was entirely plausible.

What I find strange is this suggestion that Evans must be dirty to finish in that position when its about 42seconds behind a standalone winner and nearly 2mins slower than the last winner. Why single out Evans and not Garzelli as the more likely candidate? (probably because he also was a fair bit slower than the previous winner? - but then we now know that the previous winner was most likely doped....)

So we are left with - Evans finished well down compared to last time when the winner was doped, so if he is doped now he must be doing a very bad job of it OR that he and many of those around him are clean(ish) now..

I think the post is aimed at evans as the OP assumes garzelli is doping. Evans performance, to some seems plausibly clean(ish). As does Basso's...if Basso is doping he sure isn't 2006 doping.

For me Evans this year seems to be performing on a par with other years, he just discovered tactics and like 2007/08 where is the competition? As the saying goes, you can only beat who turns up.

 

[rata de sentina]

Personally I'm inclined to consider Evans clean, this is based on performance and character. Performance wise as has been outlined by others he has shown a gradual improvement over the years. His current form is good but there is really no massive jump and can be easily explained by motivation (having his head in a better place at BMC), tweaking of his training, bit of tactical nous (at last), confidence of being WC and of course decline of doping in the peloton.

Evans is seen by many as a bit of a loner and he obviously thinks a lot because he is always rationalising when things go wrong! (frequently misinterpreted here as whining IMO ). He gets pretty fired up when people do stuff he considers unethical. This suggests to me that if at some stage of his career he decided not to get sucked into doping he is strong willed enough to persist with that course.

I should also add that I think Basso is probably clean too at the moment. In fact I think this giro is pretty clean over all.

 

[Jonathan]

Personally I'm inclined to consider Evans clean, this is based on performance and character. Performance wise as has been outlined by others he has shown a gradual improvement over the years. His current form is good but there is really no massive jump and can be easily explained by motivation (having his head in a better place at BMC), tweaking of his training, bit of tactical nous (at last), confidence of being WC and of course decline of doping in the peloton.

Evans is seen by many as a bit of a loner and he obviously thinks a lot because he is always rationalising when things go wrong! (frequently misinterpreted here as whining IMO ). He gets pretty fired up when people do stuff he considers unethical. This suggests to me that if at some stage of his career he decided not to get sucked into doping he is strong willed enough to persist with that course.

I should also add that I think Basso is probably clean too at the moment. In fact I think this giro is pretty clean over all.

The above is up there with "Armstrong wouldn't dope because his mom would not allow it". No, I did not make that up.

To win a GT, you have to dope. Stages like this one are of key importance. There is no reason to believe the normal culture in cycling, that has persisted for many decades, has radically changed in the last two or three years.

I don't see what's the problem with this Evans guy - he's a GT contender like any of them. Beloki didn't ride much differently, Rumsas made gradual improvement until he really showed his talent in the Tour. Yet they doped. Obviously, style of riding - aggressive like Ricco, defensive like Beloki - doesn't matter with regards to doping. The culture within cycling is still the same.

 

[Roninho]

.... If he would be doping himself, he would not ride like that any more; doped climbers usually take a very Virenque-like style that makes them seem like they aren't really bothered about how hard the climb is. Cadel still suffers more than anybody else from the moment they are climbing, and to me, that's enough evidence for his innocence.

You do know that an enormous amount of domestiques have been caught in the past few years. And the same for teamleaders that do not have an attacking style (Francisco Mancebo says hi).
The simple fact that a rider looks to be suffering on a bike doesn't say anything, Jan Ullrich looked terrible on many mountainstages and he wasn't clean.

As for Evans, i don't know if he is clean but considering his performances and the teams he raced for imo the chances that he is clean ins't very big. If i see how many topriders have been busted or implicated imo a guy like Moncoutie is one of those rare exceptions. Evans might be one of the few others but again not holding my breath.

 

[Mellow Velo]

"Clean" Cadel serves as an endorsement for "Clean" Basso, Vino and Scarponi, so the UCI appreciates all the support given to the Australian.

 

[danjo007]

its easy to spot the morons around this site.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Could a clean Cadel Evans get 2nd on uphill TT in the Giro?

2nd??/ He should have won the bloody thing!!! He could whip most of them riding with one leg let alone doped.

 

[SpartacusRox]

You do know that an enormous amount of domestiques have been caught in the past few years. And the same for teamleaders that do not have an attacking style (Francisco Mancebo says hi).
The simple fact that a rider looks to be suffering on a bike doesn't say anything, Jan Ullrich looked terrible on many mountainstages and he wasn't clean.

As for Evans, i don't know if he is clean but considering his performances and the teams he raced for imo the chances that he is clean ins't very big. If i see how many topriders have been busted or implicated imo a guy like Moncoutie is one of those rare exceptions. Evans might be one of the few others but again not holding my breath.

At the end of the day, where will this end. Under the forum rules no one is innocent. I for one believe that Cadel rides clean and I also believe Basso is too. Call me gullible but there comes a time when you have to trust that there are guys that genuinely live up to what they say and in some cases have learned their lesson. Otherwise you just end up bitter and twisted like many who post on here who only live in darkness and see no light at the end of the tunnel.