CQ ranking

[ingsve]

Yeah, same goes for me with Cobo. Until someone mentioned a non-doping 0 point rider, I had no idea. I ended up looking through the 2009 list until I noticed.

I found it much easier to just go through the individual team lists and transfer lists to find bargains since then you can get a better overview of an entire team so that you can assess what riders will get opportunities in what races etc. That means that you can avoid riders that while they look like bargains they are on teams where they're not likely to get any good opportunities to score since the team has many better riders of the same type.

 

[joy118118]

Yeah, same goes for me with Cobo. Until someone mentioned a non-doping 0 point rider, I had no idea. I ended up looking through the 2009 list until I noticed.

2009?

 

[Moondance]

I think there should be an auction. For Valverde and any other returning dopers who someone wants to buy.

Whoever "wins" the auction (bids the most points) must include Valverde at that price. The losers can still pick him up, but his price is fixed at that of the winning bid.

This makes very little sense. In that case noone would bid on him, and then everyone gets to pick him up for free.

If there's going to be an auction, then there also needs to be a cap on the amount of Valverde's in play.... Say, 10 or so.

 

[Ferminal]

This makes very little sense. In that case noone would bid on him, and then everyone gets to pick him up for free.

Not when the aim is to beat other players, so you bid whatever you feel will maximise your return relative to other teams. If the price is zero and everyone picks him up then the relative value is zero. If you raise the price high enough to force others with a lesser valuation out then they become a valuable pick assuming your higher valuation is accurate.

 

[luckyboy]

Wouldn't Piti's value just be the last season he raced?

 

[kurtinsc]

2009?

Yes... I looked through the 2009 results until I saw a name I didn't remember seeing. Cobo was at 104th with 484 points in 2009. 0 in 2010.

 

[skidmark]

3300 last year.

But believe it or not, I did actually read through the entire list paying special attention to those with less then 20 points, looking for names I knew.

If I don't know them... that's my fault. But if they aren't listed... well that's my fault too for not remembering who doped or dropped completely off the face of the earth I guess.

Yeah, that's what I did too... I find it fun to do that kind of archival work to try to find good discoveries (even if other people make those same discoveries independently)... I think using 0 point riders, if you can remember them, is a good bonus for those who are diligent, so I don't think they should be held off, after all they are active. Suspended riders are a bit different, but we can talk about that in November.

 

[Moondance]

Not when the aim is to beat other players, so you bid whatever you feel will maximise your return relative to other teams. If the price is zero and everyone picks him up then the relative value is zero. If you raise the price high enough to force others with a lesser valuation out then they become a valuable pick assuming your higher valuation is accurate.

Okay, maybe I should've phrased my argument differently. Saying that noone would purchase him for more than 0 was obviously too much hyperbole to make my point accurately.

The fact is, because everyone knows that they'll still be able to acquire Valv-Piti after the auction, that an open ascending price auction would distort Valverde's 'market value.' English style auctions are good at determining the true value of a single, unique, object; but it doesn't work when the supply of the good (in this case Valverde) is infinite.

Example, say we're doing the auction, and just you and I are the only interested parties left. My bid stands at 1400 CQ points, however your private valuation of Valverde prior to auction was 1600 points. However, because you don't know what my private valuation is you do not have an incentive to bid 1600, because we both gain from keeping the price as low as possible, since the result would be ~Valverdes at a price of 1400. By not raising my offer of 1400, we both gain. You would get Valverde 'cheap' and have an additional 200 points to spend, which is beneficial for you. In a sense, you have no incentive to 'win' the auction under your system. Therefore Valverde's price is distorted, and probably will end up undervaluing what we as a community would value him at.

I'm a proponent of doing something fun with assigning a value for Valverde for next year. Because it'll either be establishing that he costs nothing (his 2011 results) in which case everyone 'buys' him, or else we take his value from his last, unsuspended season, (2494 in 2009) in which case noone will buy him. But there are more effective ways of reaching what CN-forum would consider to be his true value.

 

[kurtinsc]

In the end... I guess I really don't care. Just give me a unified list of the prices with several weeks to think about it. Let me know if I can get 0-point guys or not.

I say whatever we do though, prices are frozen Dec 1st and we have the whole month to select our teams.

 

[The Hitch]

JJ Haedo wins in Tirreno. Good that he's finally starting to repay the (not inconsiderable) investment I made in him.

THE ONE JOSE was the only rider i bought purely because i like him. I knew it was a mistake the second i pressed "submit" and would take it back if i could but nonetheless it makes it double great to see him WIN.

 

[Moondance]

THE ONE JOSE was the only rider i bought purely because i like him. I knew it was a mistake the second i pressed "submit" and would take it back if i could but nonetheless it makes it double great to see him WIN.

I don't see why it's a mistake. He's going to have a very busy season given he's Saxo's only sprinter. He'll probably be their designated many in every 'sprinters classic' and ride two GTs. He's just getting into form, and already beat Tyler Farrar who had the benefit of an amazing leadout. I have high hopes that JJ will earn around 700-50 for the season and turn a very nice profit.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't see why it's a mistake. He's going to have a very busy season given he's Saxo's only sprinter. He'll probably be their designated many in every 'sprinters classic' and ride two GTs. He's just getting into form, and already beat Tyler Farrar who had the benefit of an amazing leadout. I have high hopes that JJ will earn around 700-50 for the season and turn a very nice profit.

I thought that Contador would be banned and hed have more races for himself.

But still, hes 30 and he hasnt even won a grand tour stage. Today was perhaps his biggest win ever even. Theres absolutely nothing to suggest he at this age can suddenly start out of nowhere pulling in some big wins.

Sure he beat Farrar and Cav and Thor but there are many sprinters who have one of those pictures on their walls. Nothing to suggest hed even be able to compete if he faces them elsewhere and if he wanted a Greipel like lots of wins in little races season, he should have started 2 months ago.

 

[Ferminal]

Okay, maybe I should've phrased my argument differently. Saying that noone would purchase him for more than 0 was obviously too much hyperbole to make my point accurately.

Wouldn't do an English auction anyway Sealed-bid or Dutch... adds risk.

 

[Moondance]

Wouldn't do an English auction anyway Sealed-bid or Dutch... adds risk.

Dutch wouldn't work either..... Presents the same disincentive to bid your truth worth the way an English one does in this scenario. As would almost any type of public bidding process, unless the amount of Valverdes which could be bought were finite.

It'll have to be sealed if it is to take the form of an auction.

 

[Jancouver]

How many points do I get for an actual start in Tour de Murrieta?

http://murrieta.patch.com/articles/...nd-on-city-for-tour-de-murrieta#photo-5228547

 

[Eric8-A]

How many points do I get for an actual start in Tour de Murrieta?

http://murrieta.patch.com/articles/...nd-on-city-for-tour-de-murrieta#photo-5228547

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC3AYXT81jc&feature=feedu

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Because people would try and bid low to make him a value pick, others would bid a bit higher because they really want him. I think he might get 1900 points in 2012 and I'm willing to pay a bit for "safe" points so might pay 1100 or 1200. If someone really wants him though they might pay around 1500. People who miss the auction may want him at the revised price, or maybe my original valuation was wrong and I still want him. If he was sold at 1500 there would naturally be more people selecting him as opposed to the zero (or token fanboy selection).

Better than just going by the ridiculously high price which no one is going to pay. It would help stop a bit of the "all or none" where there are certain riders who are either very popular or very unpopular. For very low priced dopers, their price would be forced higher and it would be more of a decision.

This isn't true because those that really want him on their team exactly won't be bidding for him because why should they? It wouldn't make any sense to bid.

 

[skidmark]

Alright, so in 20km I had TJVG and Haussler both go into a wall at the same time, and Sivstov and Gusev go down at the same time, both times the only riders affected by their respective crashes. Yeesh, Paris-Nice has not been good for my ol' team, although at least 9 of my riders might still get the 'thanks for showing up' points. It's sad when I'm looking forward to those...

 

[Jancouver]

Somehow I was able to keep my position from last week but with all those sick/injured guys on my team I'm not expecting many points this week

My sick/injured/banned list:

DESSEL Cyril (Injured)
HOOGERLAND Johnny (Flu)
PELLIZOTTI Franco (??)
PHINNEY Taylor (Injured)
RABON Frantisek (Flu)

Dont mean to be crying like a be-yatch here but 5 guys is almost 20% of my team

Jonathan Vaughters tweeted:

"Maaskant has 7 broken ribs. Report of collapsed lung are inaccurate. He's ok, but isn't going to race Roubaix. Very sad."

My non-active list:

DESSEL Cyril (Injured)
HOOGERLAND Johnny (Flu)
MAASKANT Martijn (Injured)
PELLIZOTTI Franco (Banned)
PHINNEY Taylor (Injured)
RABON Frantisek (Flu)

What is the rule on adding riders from my backup/dev/u23 team?

 

[kurtinsc]

Maaskaant is a blow for me too. Was sort of hoping for a top 10 at Roubaix... now we're talking about missing the remaining cobbled races... not sure he has a huge value after that.

Still will hopefully break even... but no longer much hope for a big gain.

That will probably mean he'll be on my team next year though.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

yeah that was disappointing, more so that his goals are ruined rather then my cq team.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Allez Wiggo!

 

[Squire]

Following some extremely bad luck lately, it's good to see my unique choices getting some P-N points. Di Gregorio yesterday and Ulissi today. Was hoping Didier could hang on in the break as well, but I should be pleased anyway.

 

[EvansIsTheBest]

Following some extremely bad luck lately, it's good to see my unique choices getting some P-N points. Di Gregorio yesterday and Ulissi today. Was hoping Didier could hang on in the break as well, but I should be pleased anyway.

Actually, I also have Ulissi, great ride by him

Mollema and Haussler also delivering, already 161 points today and still waiting for Tirreno + a few 5 points for showing up in Paris - Nice.

 

[Ferminal]

Right, my highest finisher in P-N was Marc de Maar...