Crashes, what can be done?

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Since we're discussing it. Apparently at least some riders are trying to come up with solutions as well.

Van Emden makes 10 rider-safety proposals: We are not circus animals

Dutch rider speaks out in hope of reducing risks within professional cycling

www.cyclingnews.com

Some interesting points. I don't know if he reads the forum, but this is literally a point i have raised many times:

3-kilometre rule

"The 3-kilometre rule [whereby if there's a crash in the last three kilomtres of a stage, all riders get the finish time of the group they were in when the crash occurred] should always apply on flat stages. The time is taken three kilometres from the finish so that classification riders and their teammates do not have to sprint [against stage contenders] right before the finish line."

This is exactly what i wrote after the TdP crash two weeks ago.

I've been in favor of completely doing away with timedifferences for the final 3k in sprintstages, for some time. That way you can keep GC riders out of the sprint chaos. It's a good thing for the GC riders, since they don't have to risk injuries due to crashes at high speed, in a situation that is completely out of their comfortzone. In turn it offers more space for the sprinters and sprinttrains. Today this wouldn't have made a difference obviously, but a crash like this could also take out a GC rider (and it has many times in the past). It's safer for all parties involved.

Unfortunately, as you can see in the TdP topic, some people want to see "real racing" and crashing at 80km/h apparently is part of that.

 

[Koronin]

Some interesting points. I don't know if he reads the forum, but this is literally a point i have raised many times:



This is exactly what i wrote after the TdP crash two weeks ago.



Unfortunately, as you can see in the TdP topic, some people want to see "real racing" and crashing at 80km/h apparently is part of that.

I have no idea if he does or not either. I had thought there was a discussion on the 3KM rule here. I'm remember a discussion from some race last year (maybe the Tour?). I agree with you. I've even thought moving that back to 5km might not be the worst idea in the world. There are very few GC riders who should be up there for a sprint. There aren't many Valverde's who are actively participating in a field sprint or many Alaphilippe's who are actively part of a sprinter's leadout train.

 

[Big Doopie]

Allow fewer riders on the start line.

there was a time not too long ago when you might have 120-140 riders starting the TDF.

It’s only in serving greed that they increased that number to near 200.

and you could still have 20 teams of six or seven riders.

that would also diminish trains, making it more exciting.

it would also mean u would have the GC leaders spread amongst the teams more as teams could not have three team leaders in a team of six or seven.

it would solve many issues and many complaints about present day cycling.

 

[RedheadDane]

Van Emden actually makes some pretty good points here.

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI to tighten safety checks after spate of serious race crashes

'Safety remains the responsibility of the organisers' says UCI, promising far-reaching reforms

www.cyclingnews.com

Basically UCI is saying safety is not their responsibility. This will i guess need to change in the future.

 

[Fergoose]

• Imagine a world where not every flat stage is brought back for a bunch sprint (and the resulting elevated risk), where a lack of information makes it harder for teams to effortlessly manage the breakaway.
• Imagine a world without riders taking a hand off the handle bar in the middle of the pack to activate a device, making them slower to physically react to events.
• Imagine a world where a rider's focus isn't constantly diverted into a voice in their head, making them slower to mentally react to events.
• Imagine a world without riders from rival teams constantly being told by their bosses to "make sure they are at the front"
• Imagine a world where radio is only used by organisers and only for safety information, and DS's involvement in the race effectively ends at kilometre 1.

A man can dream.

 

[Jspear]

Basically crashes are caused by radios?

 

[Lequack]

Seems like every stage now there are crashes. Especially the sprint stages, obivously in the finishing bunch sprints, but also I've noticed that if the stage is somehow a designated sprint stage there seems to be more crashes even in the kms leading up to the finish as well. Meanwhile when you have big climb at the end and the sprint teams have no interest, it's usually calmer.

 

[tobydawq]

Seems like every stage now there are crashes. Especially the sprint stages, obivously in the finishing bunch sprints, but also I've noticed that if the stage is somehow a designated sprint stage there seems to be more crashes even in the kms leading up to the finish as well. Meanwhile when you have big climb at the end and the sprint teams have no interest, it's usually calmer.

There has always been many crashes on those stages.

 

[Lequack]

Yes, but what can be done about it?

 

[saganftw]

nothing, crashes are simple math and human behaviour problem

and you cannot change neither

unless you cancel live cycling and only zwift cycling remains

 

[RedheadDane]

No, you can't avoid every crash. But you can avoid those - like T. Martin's yesterday - which are caused by unsafe conditions, like unmarked road furniture.

 

[saganftw]

or you can argue that 150 or whatever riders managed to get around it without issue but one guy wasnt paying attention and caused the crash

you are using an outlier to prove your point - and accidentaly you might actually be right, because road furniture should be marked with policeman with a whistle because in large group of people you will always find somebody not paying attention

 

[RedheadDane]

and accidentaly you might actually be right, because road furniture should be marked with policeman with a whistle because in large group of people you will always find somebody not paying attention

That was exactly my point; I don't think anyone is saying that there should be no crashes. However, anything that can be done to limit the number of crashes, should be done.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Replacing metal barriers in final kilometers with a softer material.

 

[Bonimenier]

Organizing flat stage finishes on wide roads (if possible)

Often the worst crashes in a sprint are on exactly those roads because the speed is so high and riders come to the front from all different directions.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Often the worst crashes in a sprint are on exactly those roads because the speed is so high and riders come to the front from all different directions.

Yes maybe you're right but I made another point there as well.

 

[Bonimenier]

Yes maybe you're right but I made another point there as well.

Yeah, I know. I agree that organizers should invest in the right barriers.

 

[Publiuszam]

Riding in the drop for lower centre of gravity.
Also If a rider drops his head while riding in the middle of the peloton it often leads to crashes .. .even if a rider is dead tired... they should always look up and look around.BUT They ALL KNOW THIS ALREADY.. Road furniture also is very dangerous.

So I don't really know...what can be done

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I think the number of crashes could be halved if I didn't keep entering the CQ competition

 

[BlueRoads]

Use Dutch bikes.

 

[JayKosta]

... However, anything that can be done to limit the number of crashes, should be done.

------------------------------------
Doing 'everything' that can be done would result in boring races. Even requiring promoters to 'assure the safety of the course' would be cost prohibitive. Bike racing is an inherently dangerous activity, the participants must accept that risk.
I certainly do agree that there are well known precautions that should be employed, but eliminating crashes and accidents is not possible while keeping the 'spirit' of the sport.

 

[Netserk]

If they were only allowed to run with their bikes, not ride on them, there would be next to no crashes!

 

[Anderis]

Doing 'everything' that can be done would result in boring races.

Doing "everything" that can be done would result in no races. Because yes, if anything can be done to reduce the number of crashes to the biggest possible extent, it is to cancel all races.

That doesn't mean that i think we should not be looking at how to make things safer but I merely want to point out most of people would not agree to do "anything" to improve safety, even though they often mistakenly state that they would.

 

[tobydawq]

Replacing metal barriers in final kilometers with a softer material.

How would that limit the amount of crashes?