Critérium du Dauphiné 2025, June 8 - 15

[Extinction]

Pog is much like Contador in the ITT. He is known to throw up an absolute stinker from time to time. Today appears to be that day.

That is the thing with the alien division. If you are slightly off, you get absolutely crushed. It's not like the human division where you only lose a few seconds

But Contador, except for the 2009 Tour TT that he won against Cancellara, was never up against this lot. Still, Remco crushed it. Imagine, in this day and age, of Evenepole never wins the Tour, which is entirely possible. O mores, o tempora!

 

[YavorD]

On the steepest part of the climb, Remco posts 1:49 and Pogi 1:56.

Strava has it's...inconsistencies, let's say, but if accurate, very good times for Remco.

Partial leaderboard:

So where did Pogacar gain those 7 seconds + ~3 extra then?
In the "downhill"?

 

[Cycling111]

Pog is much like Contador in the ITT. He is known to throw up an absolute stinker from time to time. Today appears to be that day.

That is the thing with the alien division. If you are slightly off, you get absolutely crushed. It's not like the human division where you only lose a few seconds

I can't remember the last time Pogacar was overtaken on a climb by more than three rider.

Loze? And it was indicative of a catastrophic day.

 

[red_flanders]

So where did Pogacar gain those 7 seconds + ~3 extra then?
In the "downhill"?

Strava rides are linked above, if you're a member you can poke through the various segments and see the breakdown. Not sure it'll give you what you're looking for, but maybe.

 

[red_flanders]

Race Analysis : Critérium du Dauphiné - Watts2Win

The ultimate database of cycling performance

watts2win.eu

Wattstowin has Vingegaard roughly the same time on the climb.

From the linked site:

 

[Red Rick]

Checked Evenepoel's Strava, which basically has him 25s faster on the first 6k flat section than Pogacar.

These hilly ITTs always have interesting dynamics in regards to pacing and frankly also just comfort on the TT bike. I think riders who aren't comfortable on the TT bike will also suffer in the uphill performance off the TT bar just because they have to force it more.

 

[Oldman]

No. Pogacar at his level, not even the best, would never be beaten by Lenny and Jorgenson.
All at once are at the same level as Pogacar

It´s a bad ITT.
It seems so obvious to me that I don't know if you're serious or trolling

If we'd been told before the race that Pogacar would have a worse climb than Lenny and Jorgenson, we'd think he was sick or had some problem. Now, it's normal for everyone to be at Pogacar's level without this implying poor performance of Pogacar
And this after reading for months that Pogacar is boring because he is so superior to almost everyone.

He and the team admitted a too-conservative pacing strategy. I'm sure he got the message from the car once they had some gap data from roadside staff. He conceded 27 seconds to Remco's pace before the hill. That's bad and a 17km route doesn't give much opportunity to correct that gap without blowing up. At least he had a reasonable pace on the hill but Remco was pretty much flawless to watch and gone by then: Zero wasted energy and fluid pacing. Great to watch. Saw some of Matteo's climb and it was very settled with little out of saddle effort.

Not huge cause for concern except the lack of response time and adjustment planning. When the principal combatants go that close together on a short course you can't make mistake at the Tour. He needed a teammate that committed hard before him to gauge what program to ride. Who would be the best suited dom for that job, come July?

 

[Muren]

That Remco was also fastest on the climb after his incredible first 6k (53,3 kph average, and wasn't it headwind?) impressed me.

Am I remebering wrong but doesn't Remco usually struggle a tiny bit when he climbs on the tt-bike?

But he is really light now, maybe that explains the good climbing today.

Will be interesting to see how he performes in the high mountains on saturday.

 

[KZD]

Just watched the TT now, Remco with an incredible performance to take yellow and he just looks so good on the TT bike. Hope that he can challenge Vingegaard and Pogačar in the mountains.

Vingegaard also doing really well, lost a bit more than I expected to Remco but gained a lot more than I expected on Pogačar and with the bonus of his teammate Jorgenson also doing a very good time.

Pogačar just disappointing, I predicted him getting third before the stage but didn't expected him to lose so much time on Remco and Jonas. In a way, I hope that he is not in great shape otherwise he could suffer a lot in the Tour first TT.

Really good times from Van der Poel and Dunbar too and Seixas is simply amazing, doing a top10 in this field at 18.

 

[YavorD]

He and the team admitted a too-conservative pacing strategy. I'm sure he got the message from the car once they had some gap data from roadside staff. He conceded 27 seconds to Remco's pace before the hill. That's bad and a 17km route doesn't give much opportunity to correct that gap without blowing up. At least he had a reasonable pace on the hill but Remco was pretty much flawless to watch and gone by then: Zero wasted energy and fluid pacing. Great to watch. Saw some of Matteo's climb and it was very settled with little out of saddle effort.

Not huge cause for concern except the lack of response time and adjustment planning. When the principal combatants go that close together on a short course you can't make mistake at the Tour. He needed a teammate that committed hard before him to gauge what program to ride. Who would be the best suited dom for that job, come July?

But his last part was rather bad as well, although not as bad as the first part, so it doesn't seem like a bad pacing. More like a general problem.
Bad shape/bad day/bike issues or simply too far from his peak.

Almeida should be the one to go full gas in the Tour.

 

[Oldman]

So where did Pogacar gain those 7 seconds + ~3 extra then?
In the "downhill"?

Probably his increased aggression on the hill set his effort to the finish. Too little too late. If he's not leading before a TT stage he's got to be aggressive early and force others to do the same. That assumes he suffers less for the start and still leaves room for acceleration.

 

[Unchained]

Giannetti waking up Ernesto Colnago to get to work on the TT bike

Many funny stories about some Colnago contract anomalies, I read that after UAE group took controlling interest in Colnago bicycles that Ernesto and company would not allow signature stencil to be used on new era bikes!!

Colnago, Italy’s Iconic Brand, Sold to Abu Dhabi Investment Fund - The Latz Report

Abu Dhabi fund, Chimera Investments LLC, has announced the acquisition of the majority of Colnago’s shares. In their statement, the fund, which is headed by Dubai’s royal family and also owns the UAE Emirates Team World Tour pro cycling team that is equipped with Colnago bikes, publicly thanked...

thelatzreport.com.au

He probably spit up his drink when he saw the new frames!!

 

[Oldman]

But his last part was rather bad as well, although not as bad as the first part, so it doesn't seem like a bad pacing. More like a general problem.
Bad shape/bad day/bike issues or simply too far from his peak.

Almeida should be the one to go full gas in the Tour.

Seems like an uncomfortable bike affects the start more than later, from my experience. Once he's in the Red zone he has to know what his max output feels like. Then you just throw down what you've got.

 

[Unchained]

I've been reading on this forum for months that Pogacar is boring because he's superior, and now it turns out it's normal to be at the same level as Jorgenson and Lipowitz. It wasn't a bad time trial for Pogacar; the others are just good and at his level. LOL

All the top riders make qualifying comments, "I want to see where I am at before tour to get idea ,get dialed in,".. most are making it sound like winning this 8 stage race is an afterthought, don't know if I believe all... It's not important, not the end of the world humble stuff..

 

[Extinction]

That Remco was also fastest on the climb after his incredible first 6k (53,3 kph average, and wasn't it headwind?) impressed me.

Am I remebering wrong but doesn't Remco usually struggle a tiny bit when he climbs on the tt-bike?

But he is really light now, maybe that's explains the good climbing today.

Will be interesting to see how he performes in the high mountains on saturday.

To the bolded, yeah, he lost time to Roglic on that short rise in the initial Giro 2023 TT, if I remember correctly, in which he otherwise excelled. But I want to see Remco on HC climbs against Jonas and Tadej, before there is reason to believe.

 

[Oldman]

Many funny stories about some Colnago contract anomalies, I read that after UAE group took controlling interest in Colnago bicycles that Ernesto and company would not allow signature stencil to be used on new era bikes!!

Colnago, Italy’s Iconic Brand, Sold to Abu Dhabi Investment Fund - The Latz Report

Abu Dhabi fund, Chimera Investments LLC, has announced the acquisition of the majority of Colnago’s shares. In their statement, the fund, which is headed by Dubai’s royal family and also owns the UAE Emirates Team World Tour pro cycling team that is equipped with Colnago bikes, publicly thanked...

thelatzreport.com.au

He probably spit up his drink when he saw the new frames!!

If he didn't see the frames in time to get a specific setup; UAE f*cked up. That's like F1 pit crews saying: "we're going with the hard tires for each stint. They last longer! And Brawndo got 'Lectrolites!"

 

[Oldman]

To the bolded, yeah, he lost time to Roglic on that short rise in the initial Giro 2023 TT, if I remember correctly, in which he otherwise excelled. But I want to see Remco on HC climbs against Jonas and Tadej, before there is reason to believe.

This TT he was able to stay in the seated TT position, somewhat higher on the bars. It works: you slide forward and pull up on the extensions at higher rpm. Stay seated as much as possible; especially if there is wind. You try not to get up until the descent when you can drop into bigger gears, lower cadence to get the pulse to go back down.

 

[search]

From the linked site:

interesting that Buitrago didn't make that list - according to his Strava, he was 20s slower than Martinez on the climb - and still delivered a pretty good result. His time trialing must have improved quite a lot.

 

[Unchained]

If he didn't see the frames in time to get a specific setup; UAE f*cked up. That's like F1 pit crews saying: "we're going with the hard tires for each stint. They last longer! And Brawndo got 'Lectrolites!"

For a few years the same investment group that controlled Mavic name also had Louisville Slugger!!!American consumers are easy to wind up..for years baseball gloves and balls were made in Haiti.. Then moved, Costa Rica is majority maker of quality baseballs.
Because of the suck factor of Astana, the no more faking it almost happened, likely will in the future!! Chinese sponsor, skip rebrand...For now riders, race teams and media will still connect brands like Colnago with Europe..Colnago is at least intentionally vague, high end made in Italy, everything else Taiwan!!
More and more brands skipping the Euro branding bit, coming up with generic name and fessing up to... made in China!!

 

[Tim Cahill]

After today, yesterday where UAE were unhappy with Visma refusing to pull and that squabbling between PSH/Politt, it's all set up for all of the big teams to think they aren't favourites, refuse to take the responsibility and get a dangerous break completely wrong. Paul Seixas is winning the whole thing, I'm convinced Vingegaard and Pogacar don't actually watch cycling on tv, they don't have a *** clue who that boy is and will give him 5 minutes. Dunbar also looks randomly quite dangerous.

 

[houtdffan]

I can't remember the last time Pogacar was overtaken on a climb by more than three rider.

Loze? And it was indicative of a catastrophic day.

I was thinking Remco on PDB last year. Slightly off and he got absolutely crushed as a result, despite beating the previous climbing record. That is how high of a level the alien division is. Slightly off means you ship minutes (was his worst day of the TDF last year)

 

[KenFiamingo]

MVDP casually scoring 3-3-5-6 in a punchy final, a bunch sprint, a breakaway and TT clearly shows the ambition to become the next Wout Van Aert.

 

[Unchained]

After today, yesterday where UAE were unhappy with Visma refusing to pull and that squabbling between PSH/Politt, it's all set up for all of the big teams to think they aren't favourites, refuse to take the responsibility and get a dangerous break completely wrong. Paul Seixas is winning the whole thing, I'm convinced Vingegaard and Pogacar don't actually watch cycling on tv, they don't have a *** clue who that boy is and will give him 5 minutes. Dunbar also looks randomly quite dangerous.

After Pogacar semi complained that they had to burn too many guys to keep the gap under control. And Boro hit the bonus by getting a quality racer up the road. Lots of losers but EF should just go home, I hope they go for broke soon, even if they send Esteban Chavez, 35, showing little, contract is up 2025..just go already.. Gotta respect the Romain Bardet camp for sending him often, guy is trying..

Flying Fred Wright.. Lucky 13!! Guy got respectable ride, 13th in TT, decent sprint, and off the front trying to shake it up!! Sitting in 13th on GC!!going good!!
Ben Healy didn't bother to air up the tires gave back another 3:30..he is sitting at 18:56 back, reality check..Archie Ryan ,highest EF rider at @2:30 back.

 

[Boehmand]

From the linked site:

I have a question:

Wouldn't the riders using different length pedal arms impact the importance of W/kg - and thus make it difficult to compare from rider to rider directly?

In other words, with a shorter pedal arm you apply less force at a higher cadence, to achieve the same speed?

 

[Oldman]

After today, yesterday where UAE were unhappy with Visma refusing to pull and that squabbling between PSH/Politt, it's all set up for all of the big teams to think they aren't favourites, refuse to take the responsibility and get a dangerous break completely wrong. Paul Seixas is winning the whole thing, I'm convinced Vingegaard and Pogacar don't actually watch cycling on tv, they don't have a *** clue who that boy is and will give him 5 minutes. Dunbar also looks randomly quite dangerous.

Paul sounds like 18 years old of serious Dynamite. We've got Romeo and a few others that continue the Dauphine revelations.