Critérium du Dauphiné 2025, June 8 - 15

[Cookster15]

pogacar did amazing, but the rest did more amazing!

No, Pogacar had a shocker by his standards.

 

[Oldman]

For a few years the same investment group that controlled Mavic name also had Louisville Slugger!!!American consumers are easy to wind up..for years baseball gloves and balls were made in Haiti.. Then moved, Costa Rica is majority maker of quality baseballs.
Because of the suck factor of Astana, the no more faking it almost happened, likely will in the future!! Chinese sponsor, skip rebrand...For now riders, race teams and media will still connect brands like Colnago with Europe..Colnago is at least intentionally vague, high end made in Italy, everything else Taiwan!!
More and more brands skipping the Euro branding bit, coming up with generic name and fessing up to... made in China!!

Colnago made some carbon parts in Italy some years back. Likely small shop stuff but they followed Pignarello to China for the moncoque frames, forks, etc. Heard Colnago made Ferrari winglets and other small batch items.
No more, I guess.

 

[Oldman]

I have a question:

Wouldn't the riders using different length pedal arms impact the importance of W/kg - and thus make it difficult to compare from rider to rider directly?

In other words, with a shorter pedal arm you apply less force at a higher cadence, to achieve the same speed?

Once you're rolling that seems true based on fixed gear riding. That's all good but longer cranks and bigger gears allow a lower cadence. That can keep pulse lower if you're trained for that.
Curious to know what Remco was using. Pogacar and Jonas were reputedly on 165cm cranks. That would be odd that two guys with that height differential would use similar crank lengths. Judging from Remco's cadence uphill he was more comfortable at high rpm than the other two appeared to be. Anyone know what his setup was?

 

[Gratemans]

For a few years the same investment group that controlled Mavic name also had Louisville Slugger!!!American consumers are easy to wind up..for years baseball gloves and balls were made in Haiti.. Then moved, Costa Rica is majority maker of quality baseballs.
Because of the suck factor of Astana, the no more faking it almost happened, likely will in the future!! Chinese sponsor, skip rebrand...For now riders, race teams and media will still connect brands like Colnago with Europe..Colnago is at least intentionally vague, high end made in Italy, everything else Taiwan!!
More and more brands skipping the Euro branding bit, coming up with generic name and fessing up to... made in China!!

As per usual, I'm not entirely sure what your point is but ALL brands have skipped the Euro branding bit for quite some years now. When I bought my current bike, which is years ago, I remember Colnago being the only European brand that actually still made their frames in-house. And I just assume (but haven't researched) that since the takeover their frames are being produced in Asia as well.
I don't know, there's nothing wrong with that in my book. It's not like we see frames breaking all over the place all of a sudden. Kinda reminds me of how USA car lovers started hating on Japan in the 70s/80s when all they did was put out a better product at a lower pricepoint.

 

[woodburn]

Old enough to remember when Iban Mayo beat Armstrong by two minutes in a 20k time trial at the Dauphine in 2004. Armstrong went on to win the Tour by six minutes. Of course, that 20k time trial was up Ventoux.

 

[Cookster15]

Wouldn't the riders using different length pedal arms impact the importance of W/kg - and thus make it difficult to compare from rider to rider directly?

No. Power (Watts) is simply force (torque) multiplied by speed (rpm). Like two car engines with the same power but one generates peak power at lower RPM. This would be like a rider with lower cadence but longer cranks.

Longer cranks increase the leverage (force) but at the trade-off of lower RPM all else being equal.

Riders who can spin longer cranks generally generate less force (torque). Likewise, riders who can't spin longer cranks use shorter cranks but have higher cadence. When Pogacar switched down to 165mm cranks last year his higher cadence was noticeable to the eye (while climbing anyway).

 

[jmdirt]

As per usual, I'm not entirely sure what your point is but ALL brands have skipped the Euro branding bit for quite some years now. When I bought my current bike, which is years ago, I remember Colnago being the only European brand that actually still made their frames in-house. And I just assume (but haven't researched) that since the takeover their frames are being produced in Asia as well.
I don't know, there's nothing wrong with that in my book. It's not like we see frames breaking all over the place all of a sudden. Kinda reminds me of how SOME USA car lovers started hating on Japan in the 70s/80s when all they did was put out a better product at a lower pricepoint.

I fixed that for you...

 

[veganrob]

Meh. Pogi was not going to challenge Remco anyway. This was Remco race and he needed to stamp his authority on it.
He wasn't going to beat Vinge, Nor did he probably care. Vinge needs to see what his fitness level is by going for it. So he had a very good TT.
Pogi may be perfectly satisfied with his sensations and his TT. He didn't push it but is still in the mix. There are still some mountains to climb for everyone. We'll find out more then.

 

[Extinction]

Old enough to remember when Iban Mayo beat Armstrong by two minutes in a 20k time trial at the Dauphine in 2004. Armstrong went on to win the Tour by six minutes. Of course, that 20k time trial was up Ventoux.

I'm old enough to remember when Jean-François Bernard won the Mount Ventoux tt at the 87 Tour, taking yellow, only to fade in the race with all the weight of France resting on his shoulders.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I'm old enough to remember when Jean-François Bernard won the Mount Ventoux tt at the 87 Tour, taking yellow, only to fade in the race with all the weight of France resting on his shoulders.

That has to be like several trillion tons, not surprised he faded, glad he made it out alive

 

[Extinction]

That has to be like several trillion tons, not surprised he faded, glad he made it out alive

Just goes to show you how much the head and handling the pressure counts in cycling. Bernard was such a talented and elegant rider, but just couldn't handle being the heir of Hinault and Fignon. It makes it all the more impressive Lemond slaying the badger on a French team with threats of sabotage looming for two weeks. Unvelievable.

 

[houtdffan]

Just goes to show you how much the head and handling the pressure counts in cycling. Bernard was such a talented and elegant rider, but just couldn't handle being the heir of Hinault and Fignon. It makes it all the more impressive Lemond slaying the badger on a French team with threats of sabotage looming for two weeks. Unvelievable.

not hard to win when Hinault waits for you on the Peyresourde

 

[Extinction]

not hard to win when Hinault waits for you on the Peyresourde.

Hinault didn't wait, he got caught coming down and then dropped on the last climb. Over the Peyresourde, the third climb, it became obvious that Bernard didn't have every ace. He was weakening while the chasers weren't. Lemond won the stage and in the Alpes showed his superiority on the Granon. Greg should have dropped Hinault on Alpe d'Huez too, which was a mistake not having done so. If Hinault had not so brazzenly attacked on the Peuresourde stage and ridden defensively, he may have won that Tour on tactics, but Greg was unquestionably stronger that year and so the gods rendered justice (for once) in the end.

 

[Netserk]

Once you're rolling that seems true based on fixed gear riding. That's all good but longer cranks and bigger gears allow a lower cadence. That can keep pulse lower if you're trained for that.
Curious to know what Remco was using. Pogacar and Jonas were reputedly on 165cm cranks. That would be odd that two guys with that height differential would use similar crank lengths. Judging from Remco's cadence uphill he was more comfortable at high rpm than the other two appeared to be. Anyone know what his setup was?

Vingegaard used 150 mm in the ITT.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Old enough to remember when Iban Mayo beat Armstrong by two minutes in a 20k time trial at the Dauphine in 2004. Armstrong went on to win the Tour by six minutes. Of course, that 20k time trial was up Ventoux.

It was one of the best climbing performances. Mayo peaked too soon while Armstrong was still far from his best.

 

[Cookster15]

A hard call for this TT. I will go for:

1. Remco
2. Vingegaard +10s
3. Pogacar +20s

Maybe a specialist spoils the party.

Close but no cigar. Jorgenson spoiled the party and bigger gaps. Now the mountains.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Close but no cigar. Jorgenson spoiled the party and bigger gaps. Now the mountains.

Timewise, more than 100% off prediction.

 

[Berniece]

Visma in a great position again. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jorgensen wins the Dauphine

 

[Lequack]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933056674472079483

View: https://x.com/SBSSportau/status/1933056674472079483

 

[Cycling111]

A Dane saying another Dane will win. If they ask Mohoric, he'll probably say Pogacar will win 😅

 

[Lequack]

I'm quite tired of these backloaded stages. What's the point of the last 3 stages being MTF in a 1 week race, instead of spreading them throughout the week. Must be a French thing.

 

[RedheadDane]

A Dane saying another Dane will win. If they ask Mohoric, he'll probably say Pogacar will win 😅

However, if they asked the other Pedersen, he might very well say Evenepoel. And if they asked Bjerg, he'd probably say Pogacar.

 

[Red Rick]

I have a question:

Wouldn't the riders using different length pedal arms impact the importance of W/kg - and thus make it difficult to compare from rider to rider directly?

In other words, with a shorter pedal arm you apply less force at a higher cadence, to achieve the same speed?

It doesn't affect watts because energy equals force times distance. Riding in a different gear doesn't affect watts requirement for the same reason.

Crank arm length is more about in what range of motion force generation is most efficient, and in the case of TT how aggressive your position can be without the upswing of the pedal putting your knee in your chest.

 

[Stablo]

I have absolutely zero concern that Pogi won't be on top form come July.

Yes why would it be a concer for anyone, cause it's best for the sport if his never again in last years shape. Über alien-level.

 

[dobrien]

Hinault didn't wait, he got caught coming down and then dropped on the last climb. Over the Peyresourde, the third climb, it became obvious that Bernard didn't have every ace. He was weakening while the chasers weren't. Lemond won the stage and in the Alpes showed his superiority on the Granon. Greg should have dropped Hinault on Alpe d'Huez too, which was a mistake not having done so. If Hinault had not so brazzenly attacked on the Peuresourde stage and ridden defensively, he may have won that Tour on tactics, but Greg was unquestionably stronger that year and so the gods rendered justice (for once) in the end.

100% this. One of Lemond's biggest problems was he was simply too nice a guy; Hinault repeatedly tried to stab Greg in the back; the whole 'holding hands at the finish' thing was so disingenuous in my view. If the roles were reversed you better believe Hinault isn't pretending to joyfully hold Greg's hand across the line. Greg dropping him on the Alpe would have been so perfect. "Hey Bernie, you've been trying to stab me in the back all race, but I'm gonna shove this sword right in your chest while looking you straight in the eye!" I actually was a fan of Hinault, but he was a double-crossing bastard, let's face it. Lemond was also screwed in the 85 Tour and I think you could make a solid case for him winning that one too if he hadn't been a victim of his own team. But I digress...