Critérium du Dauphiné 2025, June 8 - 15

[jmdirt]

the new position he’s apparently been trying

Where did you read that? Or do you mean from the winter training camp?

 

[Extinction]

I have absolutely zero concern that Pogi won't be on top form come July.

 

[red_flanders]

@Extinction fair, thanks. Edited.

 

[dr.eve]

Pretty crucial difference in this ITT was that unlike many of these TTs with a hill in it, the downhill section was only a slight drag on very wide roads which is unlike usual when it's a bit of a recovery section. Obviously it favored the purest CdA merchant in the bunch.

Pogacar already looked really bad to me on the hill, I wouldn't be surprised if he started at a certain power and blew up there already.

But anyone overly eager to draw really big conclusions from this isn't serious. Pogacar is peaking for the Tour, not the Dauphine, and only certain fans would use not winning the Dauphine as evidence of not being in the best shape in the Tour.

Pogacar and peaking? Previous years show he is not really the type to just peak for the tour. Sure I agree he is supposed to be better at the tour, looking at training schemes et cetera. But same goes for Vingegaard, Evenepoel and everyone who puts the Tour as a major goal.

All in all very interesting development, but lets wait till the mountains and then still no guarantees for the Tour. But the best thing we as followers of cycling want is happening still, rivals close to each other.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah, this is the ideal outcome here - the three rivals look good, Remco was thought to be the weakest of the three but destroyed them (esp. Pog) in a relatively short TT. Vingo looks on top form. Pog, thought to be the favorite, placed a distant 4th in the TT.
I take this as a great sign for us cycling fans.

 

[Cycling111]

Nah, we know Lipowitz is flying and has a mean TT in his legs. And this is a different Vingegaard, who, could go nuklear in the mountains, like 2 years ago.

Pogacar won the 2021 flat time trial, In 2020 he set the best time in the flat section.
Last year, Jorgenson wasn't near at any point. Jorgenson hadn't had any accidents.

In the ones he didn't win, he's never finished worse than a domestique, and only slightly better than second-tier cyclists, no matter how fit they are.
I'm not talking about Vingegaard's time trial.. Jorgenson had never been ahead of Pogacar, Lipowitz never so close... when all that coincides, it's obvious that Pogacar had a bad time trial, even if others had a good one.

It was a poor time trial for Pogacar.

Pogacar vs Jorgenson in 22 km.
But today Pogacar didn´t have a bad time trial after losing time with Jorgenson

1	EVENEPOEL Remco	Soudal Quick-Step	210	100		28.52,19	52.581
2	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	150	70		0.12,36	52.208
3	ROGLIČ Primož	Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe	110	50		0.34,32	51.559
4	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	90	40		0.37,44	51.468
5	CAMPENAERTS Victor	Lotto Dstny	70	32		0.51,99	51.049
6	VAUQUELIN Kévin	Arkéa - B&B Hotels	55 -20	26		0.52,75	51.027
7	JORGENSON Matteo	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	45	22		0.53,84	50.996
8	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates	40	18		0.57,19	50.90

 

[dr.eve]

Yeah, this is the ideal outcome here - the three rivals look good, Remco was thought to be the weakest of the three but destroyed them (esp. Pog) in a relatively short TT. Vingo looks on top form. Pog, thought to be the favorite, placed a distant 4th in the TT.
I take this as a great sign for us cycling fans.

I do think Evenepoel beating Pogacar and Vingegaard here is not a suprise. I also don't think Pogacar and Vingegaard should be worried by it. The mountains will show if Evenepoel actually got closer to those 2 in terms of GC ambition. We will see.

What I do think is interesting is Jorgenson, he did really good. He has been good at Dauphine before... let's see how he does in the mountains and if he can carry that on to the Tour. I think Visma needs that to compete with UAE.

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar and peaking? Previous years show he is not really the type to just peak for the tour. Sure I agree he is supposed to be better at the tour, looking at training schemes et cetera. But same goes for Vingegaard, Evenepoel and everyone who puts the Tour as a major goal.

All in all very interesting development, but lets wait till the mountains and then still no guarantees for the Tour. But the best thing we as followers of cycling want is happening still, rivals close to each other.

You're conflating winning with peaking.

 

[Cycling111]

Apparently, Pogacar set the fastest time on the climb. 8 seconds faster than Vingegaard, who was second best on the climb.

It's very strange, he had an unusually bad performance in the first 7km.

 

[Extinction]

Pogacar won the 2021 flat time trial, In 2020 he set the best time in the flat section.
Last year, Jorgenson wasn't near at any point. Jorgenson hadn't had any accidents.

In the ones he didn't win, he's never finished worse than a domestique, and only slightly better than second-tier cyclists, no matter how fit they are.
I'm not talking about Vingegaard's time trial.. Jorgenson had never been ahead of Pogacar, Lipowitz never so close... when all that coincides, it's obvious that Pogacar had a bad time trial, even if others had a good one.

It was a poor time trial for Pogacar.

Pogacar vs Jorgenson in 22 km.
But today Pogacar didn´t have a bad time trial after losing time with Jorgenson

1	EVENEPOEL Remco	Soudal Quick-Step	210	100		28.52,19	52.581
2	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	150	70		0.12,36	52.208
3	ROGLIČ Primož	Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe	110	50		0.34,32	51.559
4	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	90	40		0.37,44	51.468
5	CAMPENAERTS Victor	Lotto Dstny	70	32		0.51,99	51.049
6	VAUQUELIN Kévin	Arkéa - B&B Hotels	55 -20	26		0.52,75	51.027
7	JORGENSON Matteo	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	45	22		0.53,84	50.996
8	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates	40	18		0.57,19	50.90

The stats mean nothing, however, if today Jorgenson and Lipowitz simply raised their TT level noteworthily. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but, as it is so often is said, you're only as good as your last race. To say Pog was bad coming in fourth on this course against a flying Remco, Vingegaard and Jorgenson, I think diminishes what the others accomplished. I mean, it's not like he finished outside the top 10.

 

[Froome]

Apparently, Pogacar set the fastest time on the climb. 8 seconds faster than Vingegaard, who was second best on the climb.

It's very strange, he had an unusually bad performance in the first 7km.

Pogacar did the same time as Jorgenson on the climb.

I would be surprised if that is true.

 

[proffate]

Pogacar won the 2021 flat time trial, In 2020 he set the best time in the flat section.
Last year, Jorgenson wasn't near at any point. Jorgenson hadn't had any accidents.

In the ones he didn't win, he's never finished worse than a domestique, and only slightly better than second-tier cyclists, no matter how fit they are.
I'm not talking about Vingegaard's time trial.. Jorgenson had never been ahead of Pogacar, Lipowitz never so close... when all that coincides, it's obvious that Pogacar had a bad time trial, even if others had a good one.

It was a poor time trial for Pogacar.

Pogacar vs Jorgenson in 22 km.
But today Pogacar didn´t have a bad time trial after losing time with Jorgenson

1	EVENEPOEL Remco	Soudal Quick-Step	210	100		28.52,19	52.581
2	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	150	70		0.12,36	52.208
3	ROGLIČ Primož	Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe	110	50		0.34,32	51.559
4	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	90	40		0.37,44	51.468
5	CAMPENAERTS Victor	Lotto Dstny	70	32		0.51,99	51.049
6	VAUQUELIN Kévin	Arkéa - B&B Hotels	55 -20	26		0.52,75	51.027
7	JORGENSON Matteo	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	45	22		0.53,84	50.996
8	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates	40	18		0.57,19	50.90

Obv the difference is that tt was actually in the Le tour.

Last time pog did a TT in a one week race in a year he won the tour was Basque 2021 where he lost to McNulty among others.

Last year he didn't do any ITTs outside of GTs.

The tour finishes in 6 weeks. I would probably rather "my" guy lose today than win.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Apparently, Pogacar set the fastest time on the climb. 8 seconds faster than Vingegaard, who was second best on the climb.

It's very strange, he had an unusually bad performance in the first 7km.

It is easier to go fast on the climb if you were slow before the climb. And if you go too fast in the climb you may be slower after it...

 

[Monsi]

Apparently, Pogacar set the fastest time on the climb. 8 seconds faster than Vingegaard, who was second best on the climb.

It's very strange, he had an unusually bad performance in the first 7km.

It was really bad in the first 7 km. But it was also bad after the climb. Right now, I think might be more of an issue with the bike than the legs.

 

[Extinction]

Apparently, Pogacar set the fastest time on the climb. 8 seconds faster than Vingegaard, who was second best on the climb.

It's very strange, he had an unusually bad performance in the first 7km.

People on here commented how bad Pog looked on the climb, which I didn't see. To the contrary, he looked quite fast, which also means he wasn't really bad today. But where did you see he was fastest on the climb? If true, he can still win this in the mountains.

 

[Cycling111]

It is easier to go fast on the climb if you were slow before the climb. And if you go too fast in the climb you may be slower after it...

But Pogacar has enough experience to make that mistake.

The times I posted above are from the first time trial of last year's Tour de France.
The profile was similar to today's, but with 22km.

Pogacar knows how to measure those efforts, which is why it's so strange.
Just as it's strange that Jorgenson beat him at 17km, when Pogacar beat Jorgenson by more time at 22km.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Some people need to go back and look how Pogacar did in the 2020 Dauphiné.

 

[YavorD]

Some people need to go back and look how Pogacar did in the 2020 Dauphiné.

I don't think we can really compare Pogacar in 2020 to Pogacar in 2025, but okay.

On the other hand, Pogacar has never (since 2020) done a one week stage race as prep for the Tour, so it may be normal.

 

[jaylew]

Pogacar knows how to measure those efforts, which is why it's so strange.
Just as it's strange that Jorgenson beat him at 17km, when Pogacar beat Jorgenson by more time at 22km.

Is it really that strange? Jorgenson shows improvement every year and this is only his second season with JV

 

[Lequack]

Tour de France is already over now.

 

[nightowl]

Where did you read that? Or do you mean from the winter training camp?

it was just rumours I’ve seen floating around online, but I’m trying to cope here okay

More seriously, also because looked visibly much flatter and lower and with his shoulders tucked under more than last year.

 

[Cycling111]

Is it really that strange? Jorgenson shows improvement every year and this is only his second season with JV

It's normal for you that Pogacar easily beat him 11 moths ago, and then this year Jorgenson beat heam easily
and at the same time, Lipowitz just 8 seconds behind Pogacar after yesterday's break.

For you, with that data, Pogacar didn't have a bad time trial?

It reminded me of the Algarve time trial. Almeida was the best on the climb in that time trial, but his flat section was terribly bad.
The difference is that Pogacar is usually ahead of fourth rider in these races. Today, fourth rider overtook him, and fifth rider was closer to him than he was to third rider.

 

[Boehmand]

That's not true!
Jorgenson is a certified redhead (you can go check his thread, the certification is there... somewhere...) Pogacar isn't!

How does the certification actually work?

How do you avoid people just dyeing their hair to get in?

I'm guessing the process would involve checking peoples pubes?

 

[altigraphs]

🏁 Critérium du Dauphiné 2025 | Stage 5: Saint-Priest - Mâcon​

🏷️ Hilly
📏 Distance: 183 km
📈 Ascent: 1,889 m
⛰️ Climbs: 5

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/criterium-du-dauphine-2025/stage-5-stage-5

Côte de Saint-Amour​

🏷️ Category 5
📏 Distance: 1.23 km
📈 Ascent: 67 m
📐 Average gradient: 5.52 %

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/climb-profile/4gmaun/cote-de-saint-amour

Col de Fontmartin from Voluet​

🏷️ Category 3
📏 Distance: 6.88 km
📈 Ascent: 311 m
📐 Average gradient: 4.53 %

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/climb-profile/n1sqm0/col-de-fontmartin-from-voluet

Col de Boubon from Saint-Mamert​

🏷️ Category 3
📏 Distance: 4.98 km
📈 Ascent: 239 m
📐 Average gradient: 4.82 %

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/climb-profile/xoophh/col-de-boubon-from-saint-mamert

Col du Bois Clair from La Croix-Blanche​

🏷️ Category 4
📏 Distance: 3.85 km
📈 Ascent: 121 m
📐 Average gradient: 3.16 %

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/climb-profile/9zipe6/col-du-bois-clair-from-la-croix-blanche

Côte des Quatre Vents from Cluny​

🏷️ Category 3
📏 Distance: 5.37 km
📈 Ascent: 237 m
📐 Average gradient: 4.42 %

🔗 Map and profile: https://www.altigraphs.com/en/climb-profile/az9a3k/cote-des-quatre-vents-from-cluny

 

[Valv.Piti]

Agree with RR, its only natural that Pogacar is the one most off his peak at this point. Remco did the Ardennes and Romandie straight into training (since he obviously wasn't at his best), while Pog needed a bigger recovery period. Jonas obviously crashed in P-N and has solely focused on TdF ever since early March. Without reading too much into stage 1, that was the feeling I got there as well. Jonas and Remco left a far better impression on that stage despite Pog winning. This ITT and their different race programmes just confirms it - it would be suicide from Pog to be in great, great shape right now.

That doesn't mean he can't win, but I'd be surprised at this point. Right now Jonas is the favorite, but I don't think it changes a whole lot in regards to July. Pog still has to be favored over Jonas and esp. Remco, although the Alps look good for this version of Jonas. It's all about staying in contention until then I think.