Criterium du Dauphine (2.UWT), 3-10 June

[Jagartrott]

Look, if the graphic was right, Yates had to ride twice the speed of Navarro. That's impossible against someone who isn't cracking badly. That's why I say he could never have done it against Bilbao yesterday. Unless Yates can magically spot if a rider 150 m in front of him is on the verge of breaking, he was just mostly lucky.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Navarro didn’t look good. Could Yates’ DS have benntelling him this?

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-ag2r-clash-over-thomas-puncture-at-criterium-du-dauphine/
My dislike for buddy-buddies Sky and Mitchelton grow stronger.

What's wrong with that reaction?

That's an outright lie.

What is? That they started "sprinting"? That's pretty much how I saw it. They knew something was going on and accelerated from that moment.

But had Ag2r already gone to the front when Thomas' puncture happened?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I like riders who use their brain, yes.

He was 100% lucky that Navarro cracked completely. He didn't use his brain, otherwise he'd attacked earlier to make sure he won. ***** victory.

No. He was smart, and he was strong, that's why he won. He know perfectly where Navarro is, that's why he set the tempo to reach Buchmann, and get closer to Navarro with 2km to go, and then he waited and waited for Bardet to make a move and then countered. GC was out of reach, and he knew that, that's why he set his sights on the stage win, and he executed that perfectly.

Did you actually see the stage?
Navarro had about 150 m advantage according to the broadcast at less than 400 m to go. Which meant that the only way Yates could win was if (a) he had a lot left in the tank AND (b) Navarro cracked. No way, and I mean NO WAY that this would've happened yesterday with Bilbao. Hence, Yates wasn't smart, he was lucky.

Do you realise that Bilbao started the final climb of 17.5 km with a lead of 33 seconds, and won by 21 seconds - I have no idea why some on this forum feel the need to denigrate riders who win races.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

Look, if the graphic was right, Yates had to ride twice the speed of Navarro. That's impossible against someone who isn't cracking badly. That's why I say he could never have done it against Bilbao yesterday. Unless Yates can magically spot if a rider 150 m in front of him is on the verge of breaking, he was just mostly lucky.

Kind of irrelevant whether he could have done it against Bilbao though. If it was Bilbao he might have attacked earlier, who knows. I agree there was some sort of luck involved, but like I said, it's hard to assess to what extent.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-ag2r-clash-over-thomas-puncture-at-criterium-du-dauphine/
My dislike for buddy-buddies Sky and Mitchelton grow stronger.

What's wrong with that reaction?

That's an outright lie.

What is? That they started "sprinting"? That's pretty much how I saw it. They knew something was going on and accelerated from that moment.

But had Ag2r already gone to the front when Thomas' puncture happened?

Yes... What are you trying to say?

 

[Jagartrott]

Do you realise that Bilbao started the final climb of 17.5 km with a lead of 33 seconds, and won by 21 seconds - I have no idea why some on this forum feel the need to denigrate riders who win races.

Eh, what? Bilbao won because he didn't crack. Yates' impressive sprint with 300 m to go would not have netted him a victory yesterday. What's your point exactly?

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

What's wrong with that reaction?

That's an outright lie.

What is? That they started "sprinting"? That's pretty much how I saw it. They knew something was going on and accelerated from that moment.

But had Ag2r already gone to the front when Thomas' puncture happened?

Yes... What are you trying to say?

That there's nothing wrong with continuing an attack you've already started.

(I'd missed the first 10 minutes of the broadcast, so I wanted to make sure what had happened.)

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

That's an outright lie.

What is? That they started "sprinting"? That's pretty much how I saw it. They knew something was going on and accelerated from that moment.

But had Ag2r already gone to the front when Thomas' puncture happened?

Yes... What are you trying to say?

That there's nothing wrong with continuing an attack you've already started.

(I'd missed the first 10 minutes of the broadcast, so I wanted to make sure what had happened.)

And I agree.

 

[RedheadDane]

^ Then what's the issue? They may have started sprinting a bit, but that was totally okay.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

^ Then what's the issue? They may have started sprinting a bit, but that was totally okay.

Alexandre B. calling it an outright lie, I guess. Not sure what he was on about.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Do you realise that Bilbao started the final climb of 17.5 km with a lead of 33 seconds, and won by 21 seconds - I have no idea why some on this forum feel the need to denigrate riders who win races.

Eh, what? Bilbao won because he didn't crack. Yates' impressive sprint with 300 m to go would not have netted him a victory yesterday. What's your point exactly?

Bilbao won that stage because the GC riders raced each other and ignored the leader - These things happen in races - Today the Gc riders raced themselves but the difference was the final 1.5km today was 9%, whereas yesterday the last 4kms were around 4.5% - All you are doing is unnecessarily whinging about a stage result - The four strongest riders in the race finished in the top 4 in GC

 

[Jagartrott]

OK, way to miss the point completely.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Do you realise that Bilbao started the final climb of 17.5 km with a lead of 33 seconds, and won by 21 seconds - I have no idea why some on this forum feel the need to denigrate riders who win races.

Eh, what? Bilbao won because he didn't crack. Yates' impressive sprint with 300 m to go would not have netted him a victory yesterday. What's your point exactly?

Bilbao won that stage because the GC riders raced each other and ignored the leader - These things happen in races - Today the Gc riders raced themselves but the difference was the final 1.5km today was 9%, whereas yesterday the last 4kms were around 4.5% - All you are doing is unnecessarily whinging about a stage result - The four strongest riders in the race finished in the top 4 in GC

Did you actually take the time to read his post?.............

The point being that had Navarro, like Bilbao, just had a little more left, he would've won. Yates took that gamble and it payed to, but I agree it was too risky.

 

[Squire]

With the final two kilometres being what they were, it was much less of a gamble today than if Yates had tried the same yesterday. Huge differences can be made on those gradients against a breakaway rider. It's very possible that Bilbao could have been caught on today's route, and that Navarro could've hung on yesterday.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Navarro didn’t look good. Could Yates’ DS have benntelling him this?

They could probably see him anyway. 30 seconds lead on a climb that steep with a tiring rider ? Don't understand the attitude to Yates. It's a race not a charity event. I guess for some people if it was Bardet or someone winning it would have been fine.

 

[Robert5091]

Ag2r went to the front and upped the speed - then G got a puncture. When he got back on to the peloton the GC race was as good as done. Yates' only thing left to go for was the stage victory. He got it - chapeau! That was it, back your bags and off to TdF!

 

[Blanco]

Re:

With the final two kilometres being what they were, it was much less of a gamble today than if Yates had tried the same yesterday. Huge differences can be made on those gradients against a breakaway rider. It's very possible that Bilbao could have been caught on today's route, and that Navarro could've hung on yesterday.

Exactly!

 

[The Hegelian]

Just saw the replay: what a heart breaker! You could see it in Narravo's face all the way through the last k. He knew he was cooked, he knew they were coming. Not sure it justifies hating Yates though......

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Just saw the replay: what a heart breaker! You could see it in Narravo's face all the way through the last k. He knew he was cooked, he knew they were coming. Not sure it justifies hating Yates though......

Agreed, it’s a bike race not a tea party. He rode smart, secured his podium and won the stage, the only ridiculous or embarrassing part would have been had he failed and come 2nd on the stage.

Plus it’s not like he didn’t attack on a couple of the other stages, and ended up losing some time at the end on two of them.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

With the final two kilometres being what they were, it was much less of a gamble today than if Yates had tried the same yesterday. Huge differences can be made on those gradients against a breakaway rider. It's very possible that Bilbao could have been caught on today's route, and that Navarro could've hung on yesterday.

If you leave it to 350 m to attack when the rider up the road is 150 m in front, you *need* him to crack and therefore you need luck. That's my point. It's not that hard I thought, but people keep missing it. Yates' comments after the race reinforce my opinion this was not some kind of genius riding on his part that some people here make it out to be. It was a very strong acceleration, but he needed the rider in front to ride at a snails pace the final couple of 100 m - i.e. a rider that is completely empty.

 

[Bolder]

Re:

Ag2r went to the front and upped the speed - then G got a puncture. When he got back on to the peloton the GC race was as good as done. Yates' only thing left to go for was the stage victory. He got it - chapeau! That was it, back your bags and off to TdF!

I think this just about sums it up. Who wouldn't go for a stage victory at that point? Maybe if it was a teammate, you gift it, but breakaway riders are certainly fair game. They know the odds, and how many times have we seen the breakaway get caught in the final few hundred meters?

Regarding the Sky contention that AG2R was unsporting after Thomas's flat...as usual it's a judgment call. I would say that with 40k left on a descent, just keep riding. OTOH, if you're going uphill with a group of 5-10 favorites and the yellow jersey flats...waiting is the only sporting thing to do. Not sure why Thomas was so upset.

 

[Netserk]

It's quite simple. Have the commissaires neutralized the race? If not, racing is always on!

Just remember, revenge is a dish best served cold

 

[Vasilis]

Indeed Ag2r were already pushing it on the front, although they possibly started pushing a little harder once they knew Thomas wasn't there. Since they were riding already however, I don't think they had a reason to wait. The fact they continued to push even after Thomas made it back also suggests they weren't just riding against Thomas. I also heard the suggestion that they were riding for the white jersey of Latour.
Furthermore, I don't think Sky were whining that bad. Thomas didn't go up to Bardet to scold him, I think "thanks for that" is a reasonable way to respond to the situation.
I don't think it matters if you're going downhill in the peloton or uphill with only the favourites though, what matters more is if you were already riding on the front, although there are of course no written rules prohibiting you from attacking regardless.

 

[Der Effe]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-ag2r-clash-over-thomas-puncture-at-criterium-du-dauphine/
My dislike for buddy-buddies Sky and Mitchelton grow stronger.

It's the typical Anglophone imperialist speaking here. And the typical Quick-Step hypocrite, who both share the same sense of false morality, aching to a Rudyard Kipling poem.

I've never seen anyone see apply 'fair play' so randomly as those bullies, their sense of entitlement is sickening.