Criterium International - The showdown

[Potomac]

Le Tour is the showdown. This is nothing for those two.

 

[Oldman]

Le Tour is the showdown. This is nothing for those two.

Si'. Vino vs. whoever as far as Astana goes. Kloden will find a way to hurt himself.

 

[theswordsman]

Le Tour is the showdown. This is nothing for those two.

From the Armstrong camp, maybe nothing but the Tour matters. But Contador is two for two in races this year, and he's tired of answering questions about the rivalry. He's only racing these two days in a four week period, so he can go in with fresh legs and a five climb stage and show people what the rivalry looks like in real life.

 

[ggusta]

Maybe he should start. He needs to give Cartstrong a chance.

Might I suggest a chrom- moly upright? Seriously, it IS funny to me, and I am sure non-cyclists would be confused at what cyclists deem as FAT, but obviously the concept of power to weight as apparently obvious. If I could only wake up one day and be as overweight as Lance is!

 

[ggusta]

Maybe he should start. He needs to give Cartstrong a chance.

Might I suggest a chrom- moly upright? Seriously, it IS funny to me, and I am sure non-cyclists would be confused at what cyclists deem as FAT, but obviously the concept of power to weight is not apparently obvious. If I could only wake up one day and be as overweight as Lance is!

 

[ggusta]

Le Tour is the showdown. This is nothing for those two.

Perhaps Lance is trying to lower expectations so when he comes in 10th at the tour it won't strike his fans as falling far short of their expectations for an 8th.

 

[theswordsman]

Don't be surprised if Contador wants Vino to take this race and the heat off of him. He doesn't need to go overlimit to prepare properly for the Tour and he'd value Vino's loyalty later. Vino is the reason Astana exists so he deserves some props, at least in his own mind.

It's only a two day event. Vino hasn't shown that he's in form to win a mountain stage, and Contador has. Stage 2 is a 75 kilometer sprinters stage with a 3 Km climb at 3%, and the guys who would do well there would have probably finished in the pack the day before. Then there's the short ITT. Vino has plenty of opportunities for individual glory in the Giro and other races. This one is for Alberto.

 

[cyclopeon]

From the Armstrong camp, maybe nothing but the Tour matters. But Contador is two for two in races this year, and he's tired of answering questions about the rivalry. He's only racing these two days in a four week period, so he can go in with fresh legs and a five climb stage and show people what the rivalry looks like in real life.

You seem to have a direct line into AC's head? I think you are attributing him motivations that he may not even be bothered to think of?

 

[Bicicleta]

You seem to have a direct line into AC's head? I think you are attributing him motivations that he may not even be bothered to think of?

Nah, he just Googles him all day.

 

[red_flanders]

Ok, since this will be the first meeting between Lance and Contador since the TdF - we can certainly expect Alberto and his entourage to be snooping and sneaking around the RadioShack Equipment Van, checking out the wheelsets etc.

I find this very creepy in a "stalkerish" kind of way. Lance and the RadioShack Team should be a bit more wary THIS year. Keep their stuff and hotel rooms locked up for sure. yikes.

So...you completely make up a scenario, a ridiculous one at that, with no basis in truth and a whalloping load of irony, then call it "stalkerish"...on Contador's part?

I think from reading this, there's but one person in this fantasy scenario I'd be considering calling a stalker.

 

[flicker]

Alberto is on form and Lance is not. Therefore the race is a show, not a showdown. Not to take credit from the winner whom I guess will be Alberto, Hog, JR Ewing, or whomever you fancy yourself as, IT IS MARCH NOT JULY!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Alberto is on form and Lance is not. Therefore the race is a show, not a showdown. Not to take credit from the winner whom I guess will be Alberto, Hog, JR Ewing, or whomever you fancy yourself as, IT IS MARCH NOT JULY!

True. For fanboys, the cycling season starts and ends in July. Cycling is a sport. The Tour is one race.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So...you completely make up a scenario, a ridiculous one at that, with no basis in truth and a whalloping load of irony, then call it "stalkerish"...on Contador's part?

I think from reading this, there's but one person in this fantasy scenario I'd be considering calling a stalker.

Yellow card to red_flanders for attempting to reason with a fanboy.

 

[flicker]

Unfortunatley there are two types of riders now. Sprinters/Classics riders and GT riders.

Furthermore riders target certain races.

I am talking top tier riders here. Not domestiques. There are a few anomalies such as Cunego. And the over the top dopemeisters.

Catch my drift grasshopper.

Please get your head out of the Eddy Merckx era.

You are showing your age.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Unfortunatley there are two types of riders now. Sprinters/Classics riders and GT riders.

Furthermore riders target certain races.

I am talking top tier riders here. Not domestiques. There are a few anomalies such as Cunego. And the over the top dopemeisters.

Catch my drift grasshopper.

Please get your head out of the Eddy Merckx era.

You are showing your age.

Somebody tell this fanboy that Contador won two Grand Tours in the same year and neither of them were in July.

Yep. Some cyclists are Tour riders. Other win the Giro, Vuelta, Tour, Murcia, Paris-Nice. Among others.

 

[flicker]

I put Alberto in a junior Merckx catagory. I hear he may win a classic maybe 2 this year. The Spainish stage races he has won I do respect. Tough. Also the Giro win was awesome I love his TT work on the way to the ski station. Vueltas Alberto is made to win. Magnificient. I think Alberto has the longevity that could give him a long career. Plus he is charming intelligent and way better looking then Lance. Also more articulate.
Still Alberto has a long ways to go to Hinault or Kelly.

I wouldn't put Lance in the same catogory....ever.

Still to focus on the Tour only.....Lance is brilliant. That is what ****es off Hinault.... not the doping....Hinault was a doper as well but to win the biggest race in the world 7 times please give credit to... Lance.

No one will match Lance in the biggest race in the world.

Read it and weep fellow forumites.

 

[gatete]

I put Alberto in a junior Merckx catagory. I hear he may win a classic maybe 2 this year. The Spainish stage races he has won I do respect. Tough. Also the Giro win was awesome I love his TT work on the way to the ski station. Vueltas Alberto is made to win. Magnificient. I think Alberto has the longevity that could give him a long career. Plus he is charming intelligent and way better looking then Lance. Also more articulate.
Still Alberto has a long ways to go to Hinault or Kelly.

I wouldn't put Lance in the same catogory....ever.

Still to focus on the Tour only.....Lance is brilliant. That is what ****es off Hinault.... not the doping....Hinault was a doper as well but to win the biggest race in the world 7 times please give credit to... Lance.

No one will match Lance in the biggest race in the world.

Read it and weep fellow forumites.

Call me nuts, but I have Contador wining 8 or 9 tours, I mean he's what 27, same age as Lance back in 99 so that's maybe 8 or 9, or maybe go with round numbers and finish a cool ten.

 

[flicker]

Call me nuts, but I have Contador wining 8 or 9 tours, I mean he's what 27, same age as Lance back in 99 so that's maybe 8 or 9, or maybe go with round numbers and finish a cool ten.

Could be. I do not watch cycling much but I did see him win the Giro. Epic

Contador is improving so quickly it is unreal.

 

[knewcleardaze]

I put Alberto in a junior Merckx catagory. I hear he may win a classic maybe 2 this year. The Spainish stage races he has won I do respect. Tough. Also the Giro win was awesome I love his TT work on the way to the ski station. Vueltas Alberto is made to win. Magnificient. I think Alberto has the longevity that could give him a long career. Plus he is charming intelligent and way better looking then Lance. Also more articulate.
Still Alberto has a long ways to go to Hinault or Kelly.

I wouldn't put Lance in the same catogory....ever.

Still to focus on the Tour only.....Lance is brilliant. That is what ****es off Hinault.... not the doping....Hinault was a doper as well but to win the biggest race in the world 7 times please give credit to... Lance.

No one will match Lance in the biggest race in the world.

Read it and weep fellow forumites.

I dunno. I remember when winning 3 Tours was quite the feat.
Then there's the 5 Tours winners club.
Armstrong has 7 consecutive Tour titles. No median accomplishment that.
Someone in future will come along, looking to best Armstrong's record of 7.
I believe it's possible.

 

[python]

it's not about vino but the team

what I find interesting is not if vino is on form but the fact that contador mentioned him by name in his press release as a future teammate at the tour.

is he re-transmitting aso's signal or is he telling doubters that him and vino are just fine? Probably both.

whatever the meaning, it’s a powerful message that astana co-leaders are teaming up and not afraid of rumours about the team hierarchy.

i don’t think criteium international is about vinos ambition though he should show some strength and i'll be delighted if at his age he drops texas like a rock.

 

[bianchigirl]

I dunno. I remember when winning 3 Tours was quite the feat.
Then there's the 5 Tours winners club.
Armstrong has 7 consecutive Tour titles. No median accomplishment that.
Someone in future will come along, looking to best Armstrong's record of 7.
I believe it's possible.

Merckx said that, if he'd only concentrated on the TdF he could have won 10 (as it was he won 5 out of 7 which is extraordinary enough). But he chose not to. If you look at the breadth of the palmares of the 5 times winners club then the 7 in a row - without a double, without a Classics win - looks more than a little one trick ponyish. A clever feat but limited in its scope. We can talk about specialisation but then we have Contador, under the influence of someone with a broader worldview than Bruyneel (Martinelli, the last man to achieve the double, in fact), changing his model of preparation, trying the Classics.

Specialisation was a cover story for microdosing and blood doping. The bio passport seems to be levelling the playing field somewhat by only allowing riders to dope small, within stricter limits than the old 50% rule. It may be that now we see actual talent, rather than responsiveness to doping methods, emerging. And that talent may wish to shine on more stages than 'the only race that matters'.

 

[theswordsman]

what I find interesting is not if vino is on form but the fact that contador mentioned him by name in his press release as a future teammate at the tour.

is he re-transmitting aso's signal or is he telling doubters that him and vino are just fine? Probably both.

whatever the meaning, it’s a powerful message that astana co-leaders are teaming up and not afraid of rumours about the team hierarchy.

i don’t think criteium international is about vinos ambition though he should show some strength and i'll be delighted if at his age he drops texas like a rock.

Contador said all along that he and Vino were fine, and the stuff last Fall was just another lie someone made up. But I think that, especially after Paris-Nice. Martinelli and Contador have a serious interview process going on picking the Tour squad. And it seems like they want to try out every guy on Astana. It's going to be interesting to see who steps up without him in Catalunya and Pais Vasco, and who of the Kazakhs look strong at the Giro.

Here's a bit more from Martinelli, and how the team is going to take things down a notch.

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5681#ancre6

 

[reyan12]

Merckx said that, if he'd only concentrated on the TdF he could have won 10 (as it was he won 5 out of 7 which is extraordinary enough). But he chose not to. If you look at the breadth of the palmares of the 5 times winners club then the 7 in a row - without a double, without a Classics win - looks more than a little one trick ponyish. A clever feat but limited in its scope. We can talk about specialisation but then we have Contador, under the influence of someone with a broader worldview than Bruyneel (Martinelli, the last man to achieve the double, in fact), changing his model of preparation, trying the Classics.

Specialisation was a cover story for microdosing and blood doping. The bio passport seems to be levelling the playing field somewhat by only allowing riders to dope small, within stricter limits than the old 50% rule. It may be that now we see actual talent, rather than responsiveness to doping methods, emerging. And that talent may wish to shine on more stages than 'the only race that matters'.

Lance is not as impressive compared to the cycling greats.His 7 TDF wins are very "SHALLOW" and doesnt merit him to be called one of the cycling greats.

 

[kurtinsc]

Lance is not as impressive compared to the cycling greats.His 7 TDF wins are very "SHALLOW" and doesnt merit him to be called one of the cycling greats.

7 TDF wins, 1 World Championship, 1 San Sebastian, 1 Tour de Suisse, 2Dauphine Liberes, plus a gaggle of US and minor european races.

Non-winning podium finishes in Liege(x2), San Sebastian, Paris-Nice, Amstel Gold (x2), Dauphine Libere, Criterium International and the TDF. Bronze Medal in Olympic Time Trial. A 4th place Vuelta finish.

If you compare his non-TDF results with other "greats"... then you're right he doesn't compare. But he does have some non-TDF results. The question is how much MORE do TDF wins count toward being a great? Does 1 TDF GC win = 3 Liege's/P-R's/MSR's? Is 1 TDF win worth 2 Giro or Vuelta victories?

I don't know the answer to that.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Lance is not as impressive compared to the cycling greats.His 7 TDF wins are very "SHALLOW" and doesnt merit him to be called one of the cycling greats.

Of course he is on of the greats. Just not the greatest, as his overall cv stacks up rather poorly against some of the folk who went before him (and will come after him).

But at worst he did a streak of 7 against people in THE peak event of the year for many/most, against the best of the best for that type of event, who were wither equally playing the game, or equally not (sidestepping that pit). But he beat them. And he did come back and still stacked up rather impressively.

He was a man of his era, and he certainly was one of the greatest in it, if not the greatest (of one variety). Whatever that means.

Don't care much for the guy, but to poo-pooh 7 TdF victories and a 3rd place after 2 years at that age, and portray that as something that doesn't require "greatness of sort", you gotta be kidding me.