Criterium International - The showdown

[bianchigirl]

If I add a response we'll be off to the Clinic I suspect

 

[Smera1]

Anyone mind if I start a new thread to discuss the above?

Go ahead, Bianchigirl...Like very much your posts and I may even give my opinion on the matter.
Cheers,
Roberto.

 

[Francois the Postman]

If I add a response we'll be off to the Clinic I suspect

I was trying to dance around that one too.

But let's say, hypothetically, they were all doping. Then he still would be 1st amongst equals in a flagship race for a generation. With distinction.


And we better not look at the intake of the other "greats" of bygone eras too closely. It might got rather sophisticated of late, but some of the folk we do (on the whole) universally worship were probably no angels either. Yet we give them a pass, coz we like them, and we love the overall myth, I guess. Lance on the other hand....

I have settled on comparing people to their peers, and to think of him as anything but one of cycling's "greatests" is a joke to me. Like him or not.

 

[LugHugger]

back on topic...does anybody else wonder whether LA really has gastroenteritis? this doesn't seem to be a very subtle maneuover to me. any bets on his withdrawal from CU after MSR?

 

[LugHugger]

edited by mod

 

[Mellow Velo]

Unfortunatley there are two types of riders now. Sprinters/Classics riders and GT riders.

Furthermore riders target certain races.

I am talking top tier riders here. Not domestiques. There are a few anomalies such as Cunego. And the over the top dopemeisters.

Catch my drift grasshopper.

Please get your head out of the Eddy Merckx era.

You are showing your age.

Could be. I do not watch cycling much but I did see him win the Giro. Epic

Contador is improving so quickly it is unreal.

Who would have guessed?
Let's have a look at you dopemeisters, in terms of the Tour, something you may understand.

1)A Contador: Set to ride LBL and Fleche Wallone, with the intent of winning.
2)A Schleck: 2009 Winner of "La Doyenne", that's Liege Bastogne Liege, to you.
3) Lance Armstrong: Set to ride MSR and Flanders with no intent. Training miles only.
4) Brad Wiggins: 25th in 2009 Paris-Roubaix. Yes the dangerous one.
5) Frank Schleck: Amstel Gold winner and RU. RU in GP Zurich. Twice 3rd in LBL and Lombardy podium.
6) Andreas Kloeden: Classics, what are they?
7) Vincenzo Nibali: Regular at the hilly classics. Always shows well.

What about a dopemeister podium out of that lot, based upon weight of evidence?

1)L Armstrong
2)A Kloeden
3)F Schleck

 

[kurtinsc]

Who would have guessed?
Let's have a look at you dopemeisters, in terms of the Tour, something you may understand.

1)A Contador: Set to ride LBL and Fleche Wallone, with the intent of winning.
2)A Schleck: 2009 Winner of "La Doyenne", that's Liege Bastogne Liege, to you.
3) Lance Armstrong: Set to ride MSR and Flanders with no intent. Training miles only.
4) Brad Wiggins: 25th in 2009 Paris-Roubaix. Yes the dangerous one.
5) Frank Schleck: Amstel Gold winner and RU. RU in GP Zurich. Twice 3rd in LBL and Lombardy podium.
6) Andreas Kloeden: Classics, what are they?
7) Vincenzo Nibali: Regular at the hilly classics. Always shows well.

What about a dopemeister podium out of that lot, based upon weight of evidence?

1)L Armstrong
2)A Kloeden
3)F Schleck

And Lance also placed in the top 30 at Flanders, and gotten 2nd in Amstel Gold two years when he won the Tour.

 

[python]

can someone with better memory than mine help ..have we ever witnessed armstrong so early in the racing season changing racing schedule already twice and now not showing up at the major race ?

one may speculate his training plans (and expectation) are in disarray for what he assumed for this far in the season..

 

[kurtinsc]

can someone with better memory than mine help ..have we ever witnessed armstrong so early in the racing season changing racing schedule already twice and now not showing up at the major race ?

one may speculate his training plans (and expectation) are in disarray for what he assumed for this far in the season..

I don't know. In 2005 he did some shuffling and dropped out of a race or two. Last year he did a LOT of schedule shifting (even before the broken collarbone).

 

[Oldman]

can someone with better memory than mine help ..have we ever witnessed armstrong so early in the racing season changing racing schedule already twice and now not showing up at the major race ?

one may speculate his training plans (and expectation) are in disarray for what he assumed for this far in the season..

I've said it before...this year is a publicity tour where he will do something dramatic; however scripted. It will be the seque to his next act in the public eye and reinforce his Appearance Fee Tour, the only one he really intends to win.

 

[flicker]

Lance is not as impressive compared to the cycling greats.His 7 TDF wins are very "SHALLOW" and doesnt merit him to be called one of the cycling greats.

To me entering the tour is epic. I do not understand how a tour entry,finish or win is shallow. I ride a bike please explain to me how winning the tour is shallow.

 

[flicker]

Who would have guessed?
Let's have a look at you dopemeisters, in terms of the Tour, something you may understand.

1)A Contador: Set to ride LBL and Fleche Wallone, with the intent of winning.
2)A Schleck: 2009 Winner of "La Doyenne", that's Liege Bastogne Liege, to you.
3) Lance Armstrong: Set to ride MSR and Flanders with no intent. Training miles only.
4) Brad Wiggins: 25th in 2009 Paris-Roubaix. Yes the dangerous one.
5) Frank Schleck: Amstel Gold winner and RU. RU in GP Zurich. Twice 3rd in LBL and Lombardy podium.
6) Andreas Kloeden: Classics, what are they?
7) Vincenzo Nibali: Regular at the hilly classics. Always shows well.

What about a dopemeister podium out of that lot, based upon weight of evidence?

1)L Armstrong
2)A Kloeden
3)F Schleck

The Schlecks and Contador are exceptional. I believe it is possible for them to win or podium in classics an many stage races. They are also younger and in their prime. I guess Nibali also has a chance in both types of races. He is young also correct. I guess the speed of the races/doping precludes most from being all arounders.Except for the ultra dopers like Vino.

 

[flicker]

Oh yeah I forgot Eric Zabel and Micheal Boogard. They showed prominence in all types of races.

 

[theswordsman]

can someone with better memory than mine help ..have we ever witnessed armstrong so early in the racing season changing racing schedule already twice and now not showing up at the major race ?

one may speculate his training plans (and expectation) are in disarray for what he assumed for this far in the season..

He's been changing the schedule for his whole life for months. He's racing in 2011, then he's not, then he's doing Ironman, and he was doing Catalunya, then he wasn't. He couldn't keep it straight from one interview to the next. I ALMOST feel sorry for the Radio Shack guys. There's no way LA can go another year like he's doing this one. There's no leadership - he trained in Hawaii while the others were at team camp. JB said he'll retire when LA does. Who's going to be motivated to keep the team together next year?

I expect him to ride in California, but otherwise, the guy is a loose canon.

 

[flicker]

Maybe Lars Boom or EBH will be able to be prominent in both types of races.

 

[theswordsman]

back on topic...does anybody else wonder whether LA really has gastroenteritis? this doesn't seem to be a very subtle maneuover to me. any bets on his withdrawal from CU after MSR?

I would if he and now Contador weren't (as far as I know) both scheduled to ride Fleche Wallone and Liege Bastogne Liege. If he would dodge him three races in a row all but the most loyal minions and fervent zealots would call shenanigans. But if he shows up, the rivalry crumbles to dust a few months too early.

Edit: I put Criterium International on the wrong weekend of my calendar - I just realized it is just a week off. Yep, that puts a lot of attention on LA. Again.

 

[Anonymous]

LA's shuffling seems to be status quo during his Tour career or years. His focus seems to be on one race and the rest is just for training and fitness. Did anyone ever really expect him to place well in any race other than the Tour during his 7 tour wins?

So complaining about his shuffling of his schedule and his sudden "gas" issues seem to be a moot point.

So come Crit Int'l time, if he does race I don't expect to see him go for a podium spot. However, I think AC will try for apodium spot just to show LA up. If he does it would seem LA's mind games are working. AC shouldn't even be wasting his time on thoughts of LA.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't know. In 2005 he did some shuffling and dropped out of a race or two. Last year he did a LOT of schedule shifting (even before the broken collarbone).

Lance did no 'shuffling' in 2005 - he started P-N but abandoned after 3 stages, but he was quickly back on his original programme, Brabantse Pijl, Paris-Camembert and then Tour of Flanders.

Last year he shuffled to wherever the cheque book was being waved.

I wrote this a few days ago on a different thread...
Even though he is 38 - I think he can get back in decent shape pretty quickly, however there can be no slacking off.
It starts this Saturday, at MSR - even if he comes in half an hour down he needs to put in the miles.

Lance needs to remember, it is about the bike.

 

[python]

LA's shuffling seems to be status quo during his Tour career or years.

that's not what i asked. i thought i put a clear qualifier there - has he ever changed this much this early in the season. we're only in the mid march.

So come Crit Int'l time, if he does race I don't expect to see him go for a podium spot. However, I think AC will try for apodium spot just to show LA up. If he does it would seem LA's mind games are working. AC shouldn't even be wasting his time on thoughts of LA.

how so ? texas withdraws from races contador slated fearing a faceoff, contador winning races whilst armstrong shuffles his schedule, and now brilliantly showing up at the criterium international with vino where armstrong did not expect him. rather obvious who is winning here.

 

[flicker]

that's not what i asked. i thought i put a clear qualifier there - has he ever changed this much this early in the season. we're only in the mid march.

how so ? texas withdraws from races contador slated fearing a faceoff, contador winning races whilst armstrong shuffles his schedule, and now brilliantly showing up at the criterium international with vino where armstrong did not expect him. rather obvious who is winning here.

Let me remind you the month is March.

 

[python]

Let me remind you the month is March.

you can certainly talk but im rarely interested in your opinion or calendar knowledge.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

LA's shuffling seems to be status quo during his Tour career or years. His focus seems to be on one race and the rest is just for training and fitness. Did anyone ever really expect him to place well in any race other than the Tour during his 7 tour wins?

So complaining about his shuffling of his schedule and his sudden "gas" issues seem to be a moot point.

So come Crit Int'l time, if he does race I don't expect to see him go for a podium spot. However, I think AC will try for apodium spot just to show LA up. If he does it would seem LA's mind games are working. AC shouldn't even be wasting his time on thoughts of LA.

Wait, if Contador wins, it shows Lance's mind games are working? WTF? Does it look like Contador cares about Armstrong? Most of the time he never even responds to the guy.

 

[red_flanders]

LA's shuffling seems to be status quo during his Tour career or years. His focus seems to be on one race and the rest is just for training and fitness. Did anyone ever really expect him to place well in any race other than the Tour during his 7 tour wins?

So complaining about his shuffling of his schedule and his sudden "gas" issues seem to be a moot point.

So come Crit Int'l time, if he does race I don't expect to see him go for a podium spot. However, I think AC will try for apodium spot just to show LA up. If he does it would seem LA's mind games are working. AC shouldn't even be wasting his time on thoughts of LA.

Why would trying to win or "going for a podium spot" in a race like CI be wasting his time on thoughts of LA? Who generally wins this race? Jens Voight. If Contador enters the race, he's the odds on favorite to win. What the hell does LA have to do with that? Nothing.

 

[Angliru]

However, I think AC will try for apodium spot just to show LA up. If he does it would seem LA's mind games are working. AC shouldn't even be wasting his time on thoughts of LA.

Couldn't he make the podium simply because he's still carrying the same form from Paris-Nice? I really doubt that he really cares where Armstrong places. He's raced under Bruyneel long enough to be fully aware of the lack of priority Armstrong places on all events that aren't the Tour. Now if Armstrong shows up at the Dauphine or Tour of Switzerland still showing dismal form then Shack and the fans of will really need to begin to worry.

Contador I'm quite certain is cautious enough to take any rumours of Armstrong's lack of motivation as just that, rumours.

 

[pedaling squares]

Let me remind you the month is March.

Let me remind you that March is only 4 months away from July. And let me remind you that Lance's plans for July include riding the longest, toughest bike race in the world against one of the fastest stage racers ever to ride a bike. This is not something you take on after suddenly losing weight or without a serious base of race miles.