Cycle of Lies

[Scott SoCal]

I get the Olsens mixed up. I think the only way to solve the dilemma, is for a STD test, and whomever comes up positive to whatever Lance has, then that is the Lance chimera.

Not to be confused with Haven Parchinsky, but someone told me that Lance might have donated his STD to her also.

Which probably explains Monkeymouth's real anger towards Betsy.

The more info that comes out the more I admire Mrs. Andreu.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I am at a loss to understand why the LAF continued as Livestrong. The name so identifies itself with LA they will continue to be collateral damage as Armstrong continues his fall into the abyss. Even Live-Strong would be better because it emphasizes the message they are trying to get out.

Surely some creative person could come up with a new name that encourages cancer victims to live strong. I also suspect there are a lot of celebrities whose reputations are clean enough to serve as a new spokesperson for a newly named cancer charity. Ellen DeGeneres comes to mind.

How about "Stronglife" with a green wristband.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

How about "Stronglife" with a green wristband.

It sure beats Livestrong.

 

[Berzin]

Ok. Just thought I'd provide my opinion and what I've talked about with a few in the LS group. It's not fact, no, just musings and what people say they heard. Like office gossip.

No problem. The higher-ups at the organization, from what I know, realize they cannot let Armstrong use the foundation as a vehicle to rehabilitate his tarnished reputation.

They know how many people who've donated money are upset and feel duped. Many were big-time donors who've turned their backs on the foundation after getting wind of how Lance used the charity to enrich himself and the extent of his lying and cheating.

They also realize how incredibly bad he's come across ever since the confession. Bottom line is he's just bad for business, and that will never change.

If for some reason the scenario you mention does play itself out, the foundation will not last. In fact, I'm surprised it's still going. I predicted it would be out of business within a year of the reasoned decision.

By the way, I didn't mean to sound harsh in my last post, so I deleted the offending comment.

I made it sound as if I was stifling this particular scenario you brought up, and that was wrong of me. So my apologies for this and the rude tone in which I stated the commentary.

 

[frenchfry]

No problem. The higher-ups at the organization, from what I know, realize they cannot let Armstrong use the foundation as a vehicle to rehabilitate his tarnished reputation.

They know how many people who've donated money are upset and feel duped. Many were big-time donors who've turned their backs on the foundation after getting wind of how Lance used the charity to enrich himself and the extent of his lying and cheating.

They also realize how incredibly bad he's come across ever since the confession. Bottom line is he's just bad for business, and that will never change.

If for some reason the scenario you mention does play itself out, the foundation will not last. In fact, I'm surprised it's still going. I predicted it would be out of business within a year of the reasoned decision.

By the way, I didn't mean to sound harsh in my last post, so I deleted the offending comment.

I made it sound as if I was stifling this particular scenario you brought up, and that was wrong of me. So my apologies for this and the rude tone in which I stated the commentary.

Livestrong had significant cash reserves, these will have to run out before they go out of "business". It will be interesting to see the trend in donations for 2012 and 2013. Even if they do some good, I think it better that they fold and other untainted organisations absorb their services. Assuming, of course, that there are still untainted organisations in the USA cancer world.

 

[Alpe73]

Even if they do some good, I think it better that they fold and other untainted organisations absorb their services..

I read this .... and ... then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius!

Ulman is on that main line ... tell him what you want.

 

[86TDFWinner]

page 219 "Hincapie said he and Andreu were on Motorola in 1996 when he found a thermos filled with glass vials in their refrigerator. Andreu first said the vials were substances that would help recovery. Hincapie got him to admit that it was epo." " 'He was my role model, and I started doing epo because of him,' Hincapie said."

LOL, I was about to say, didn't he(GH) Start doping around 95? He does seem to be talking out of his rear end here.

page 345 "When Hincapie sat with investigators after that Tour [2010], he quoted Armstrong from 1995. 'This is bull****,; Armstrong told him. 'People are using stuff.'
Hincapie said he had understood that to mean Armstrong wanted the Motorola team to us epo. So Armstrong went to Ferrari, and Hincapie eventually followed. He recounted Frankie Andreu telling him where to buy epo and how to use it, and recalled that Hamilton and Livingston used it, too."

LOL, It appears our friend George can't seem to get his lies straight can he? When was the last time Frankie actually spoken to Disingenuous George, and has he asked him why he's such a liar?

So what in the hell are we to make of George's statements? In 1995, he states that it was Armstrong who wanted the team to use epo. Tyler wasn't even involved with them in 1995 or 1996, so why is his name even mentioned here? Then in a contradictory statement, George says that it was in 1996 when he decided to use it because of Frankie. So if it was decided that lance was in control and in 1995 he said "this is bull****. people are using stuff." (page 65) then George says "oh, wait....it's all frankie's fault" why didn't she call him out on this or maybe not catch it? I guess the question is for Max - what year did you give the guys the instructions on how to use epo? Obviously he taught them not because he was a bad guy, on the contrary, he didn't want them to kill themselves.

He can't keep his stories straight can he? The more I read about GH, the more I think of how big of a lying, POC he is.

In george's deposition the only mention of frankie and epo is: 39. Nothing in over 1,000 pages of documents or in george's affidavit states that frankie taught him or anyone how to dope. http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net...+Affidavit.pdf
line 27: I understand that he [lance] meant the team had to get on epo. (keep in mind the year is 1995)

Note george states that Kevin, rider number 4 and himself discussed using epo. Frankie was not included in that discusssion.

Like I said, it appears GH can't keep his stories straight. How much is Wonderboy paying George nowadays?

Hence, the pulling out of my own hair. Wouldn't I like to be the one cross-examining this idiot.

I'm sure his book is full of lies, and bs.......

page 403 "The two ... [armstrong and hincapie] are sticking together"

Wonderboy must've promised him a lifetime supply of Livestrong stuff or something.

page 404 "Hincapie is saddened that the killer in Lance Armstrong has been silenced, and that he was one of the main reasons for it." The guy is so stupid I'm beyond words.

LOL, You nailed it again.

 

[mewmewmew13]

And as far as Allen Lim goes - http://www.scribd.com/doc/213422030/Pro-Cycling-July-2008-Allen-Lim-on-FL "Floyd Landis is a great guy and no matter what people think of him, he deserves a fair hearing" Allen Lim to Pro Cycling July 2008

http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=121.0;message=146493

 

[zigmeister]

^Yeah, I think we get it...people gave many guys the benefit of the doubt and were fooled over a period of time, including Lim.

 

[Benotti69]

^Yeah, I think we get it...people gave many guys the benefit of the doubt and were fooled over a period of time, including Lim.

Lim fooled? I dont know how anyone could think that!

 

[MarkvW]

And as far as Allen Lim goes - http://www.scribd.com/doc/213422030/Pro-Cycling-July-2008-Allen-Lim-on-FL "Floyd Landis is a great guy and no matter what people think of him, he deserves a fair hearing" Allen Lim to Pro Cycling July 2008

Wow. Lim said that after his traumatic experience was over. He must have really been suffering from PTSD. I guess he's better now. He's starting over from skratch.

 

[Hemassist]

Floyd Landis is the source of USPS selling Trek bikes to support the USPS doping program. There is a good article in the Wall Street Journal about this. Here is the link

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...ng-bikes-fund-doping-program-article-1.464732

I've read the articles and did a little more research on my questions.

The riders were paying Michele Ferrari a commission out of their salary.

The riders appear to have been paying Pepe Marti for drugs (Danielson affidavit).

If the riders were paying for drugs, was the money spent on logistics? Keeping a supply of drugs?

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

Just finished the book, thanks to my local library which had it in circulation.
The best part of the book for me, was the end when the lawyers/spin doctors started blaming each other for not anticipating Tygart releasing the file.

Which disappointed me, there was not much about what others thought of LA's natural athletic abilities. Lim touches on it with his claim that FL had better power numbers and would of won 10 tours if the sport was clean.


The other good part was the dirt on "Kik". She was a snob with a potty mouth!

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

Adding to my post above, I did not know of the major role Tiger Williams played in bringing "Big Texas" down. Don't **** off a rich investor by backing out of a deal.

 

[DirtyWorks]

there was not much about what others thought of LA's natural athletic abilities. Lim touches on it with his claim that FL had better power numbers and would of won 10 tours if the sport was clean.

There's not much to talk about. If Landis' statements are true, he was winning elite-level races clean.

Armstrong was full-speed doping since his under-23 days with wildly inconsistent results. Some of his podiums were bought.

I don't remember the year he used the Tour of the Gila as prep for the TdF and continental pros were dropping him on the enormous climbs. Weeks later, he's winning the TdF.

My guess, clean, he's pretty good at a national level.

 

[jens_attacks]

There's not much to talk about. If Landis' statements are true, he was winning elite-level races clean.

Armstrong was full-speed doping since his under-23 days with wildly inconsistent results. Some of his podiums were bought.

I don't remember the year he used the Tour of the Gila as prep for the TdF and continental pros were dropping him on the enormous climbs. Weeks later, he's winning the TdF.

My guess, clean, he's pretty good at a national level.

lance finished 12th giro 2009 without transfusions so not bad

 

[DirtyWorks]

lance finished 12th giro 2009 without transfusions so not bad

But, what else??? We know he was doping. We know he was a huge responder to oxygen vector doping.

 

[BYOP88]

Yeah I'd put my hand in the fire and say that the 2009 Giro was probably the cleanest GT ever raced.

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

I know what most clinic regulars think of his natural abilities, I just wanted to hear some pro riders give their opinions.


Also would of been nice if Juliet interviewed Yellow Rose employees and regulars.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

While I was on vacation, I decided to read.

A few things:

1. That is one poorly written book. The flow is terrible, and it feels like a mash of disjointed stories that kind of fit a timeline, but need some real polishing.

2. The entire story told there has been available here for years. Nothing new really, except for the myth of Linda Armstrong. People could have just saved the cash and read The Clinic if they'd wanted to know this stuff.

3. Lim is a ******nozzle. Seriously, you can tell there was only one source for his story...

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

^
I agree with you that the flow of the book was very disjointed at times.
Most of info in it was stuff we all discussed in the clinic but we did get some more personalization the way it was presented. I also had no idea that on Armstrong grew to despise his mom, eventually cutting her off, and that his mom's story was also a big lie. The epilog was brilliant.

I'm glad that I was able to get the book from my local library and did not have to pay any kind of money for it.

 

[Berzin]

There was plenty of revelatory material that was never spoken of in the Clinic.

As for the flow of the book, Juliet Macur isn't Saul Bellow, that's for sure.

"Cycle of Lies" is an investigative accounting, nothing more. And in that regard, it scores high points. Definitely worth reading.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

There was plenty of revelatory material that was never spoken of in the Clinic.

As for the flow of the book, Juliet Macur isn't Saul Bellow, that's for sure.

"Cycle of Lies" is an investigative accounting, nothing more. And in that regard, it scores high points. Definitely worth reading.

Like what? The Allan Lim fable?

 

[RobbieCanuck]

While I was on vacation, I decided to read.

A few things:

2. The entire story told there has been available here for years. Nothing new really, except for the myth of Linda Armstrong. People could have just saved the cash and read The Clinic if they'd wanted to know this stuff.

I disagree on this point. What she identifies really well is not Armstrong's doping per se, which is indeed out there, but rather the way Armstrong's mind worked in his inter-personal relationships with other people.

These anecdotal stories are a psychologists dream, because there is real evidence that LA is a sociopath at least and a psychopath at worst.

No other book about LA/USPS/Astana doping does that.

Reading the Clinic is hardly the best way to learn much about cycling given the obvious biases, subjective opinions unsupported by evidence, the off topic divergencies, obtuse disagreements, posturing and paranoid conspiracy theories that dominate the Clinic. One has to read a lot of nonsense before one finds a nugget of information.

 

[Benotti69]

...........

Reading the Clinic is hardly the best way to learn much about cycling given the obvious biases, subjective opinions unsupported by evidence, the off topic divergencies, obtuse disagreements, posturing and paranoid conspiracy theories that dominate the Clinic. One has to read a lot of nonsense before one finds a nugget of information.

And yet here you are still looking for the nuggets