Cycle of Lies

[RobbieCanuck]

Again, USADA got half-lucky and dealt directly with riders. The U.S. federation did their level best to deny USADA their sanction including submitting Armstrong-supporting documentation to Wonderboy's Federal appeal. It's the cycling federation enabling the doping.

There can be plenty of Tygarts, but they are all powerless unless athletes go *directly* to the NADO. Which is why I advocate for NADOs being granted the authority to open cases on any samples in the APMU.



Except the bottom line is it wasn't the lone f*(**&ing athlete doping, it was the federation not only protecting the athlete but running the doping.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/03/news/book-excerpt-chapter-18-juliet-macurs-cycle-lies_320274


It all left confused. Soon after the Andreu/Vaughters admissions, he [Zabriskie] once again explained his feelings about the Postal Service team’s doping to Steve Johnson, who recently had been named chief executive of USA Cycling. He wanted help from one of the most powerful men in American cycling—a man who once had been his mentor. Instead, Johnson said Andreu never should have gone public.

The head of USA Cycling knew it. All of it. The federation was running the doping. What's right when the federation rewards an athlete for doping????

I want to be wrong, but I'm not. I'm not saying Canada has gotten to USA Cycling's level of doping because certainly it seems like they are not. But the warning sirens should be going off if Canadian Cycling ever runs a pro team sometime in the future. (COUGH! sky COUGH!!)

Yeah, Canada is by no means immune from the same "cancer" as existed with USPS. Don't forget Michael Barry of USPS is Canadian. He jumped in with both feet. And we have Ryder who conveniently admitted his doping after the SOL with USADA or the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (our ADA) ran out.

I don't think Cycling Canada is as corrupt as USA Cycling but just because we are the politest people on earth doesn't mean some Canadians aren't greedy or cheats.

On behalf of all Canadians I wish to apologize for this. We are sorry!

 

[RobbieCanuck]

The written rules of cycling forbid doping, but the unwritten rules do not. There's nothing morally difficult about all of this. Professional cycling is a filthy cesspool from top to bottom, thoroughly permeated by liars and cheats. Moreover, everybody knows it.

Nobody cares. If people cared, US racing cyclists would have followed LeMond's suggestion and resigned their USAC memberships. But cyclists won't do that--they'd rather race and support a corrupt moral structure than sit out and take the moral high ground.

There is no USAC insurgency. USAC members--all of them--prefer doping to the alternative. They can say what they want with their hypocritical mouths, but their money (poured into a corrupt sport) speaks volumes!

I love this sport. It is the filthiest Circus. I can't wait until Weasel pygmalions his next doping wonderboy!

Bang on and said with verve!

 

[elizab]

It all left confused. Soon after the Andreu/Vaughters admissions, he [Zabriskie] once again explained his feelings about the Postal Service team’s doping to Steve Johnson, who recently had been named chief executive of USA Cycling. He wanted help from one of the most powerful men in American cycling—a man who once had been his mentor. Instead, Johnson said Andreu never should have gone public.[/I]

The head of USA Cycling knew it. All of it. The federation was running the doping. What's right when the federation rewards an athlete for doping????

Even though Bisceglia supported armstrong, he was ousted from usac for a reason: http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/ Better to have one of their own in charge. Pulling the puppet strings is that much easier.

Two tragic stories, Jenevive Jeanson, Tammy Thomas. Hopefully less tragic story of Greg Strock and Erik Kaiter at least. (pardon any misspellings)

We know for sure Carmichael was doping kids to beat up domestic racers at domestic events. Armstrong was his product for sure, as was Levi and Hincapie. Thom Wiesel's various cycling teams all had PED doctors.

Parents being pitched on their kids joining development teams used to be sold on the team's fantastic medical program. Don't mistake "medical program" for massage therapists and first aid kits.

None of this is "big contracts" time. Again, I'd argue this is the federation not actually serious about containing doping, but very serious about containing doping controversy. My understanding is the U.S. was not the only country with doping personnel for under-23 races. I don't know the situation in 2014.

As evidenced by the lack of action from Steve Johnson. In fact when Frankie came out in 2006 the response from usac was a call asking him to step down from the board since he was a rider rep. No asking him questions just the comment that it didn't look good which goes to your comment about usac caring more about containing doping controversy than caring about the problem of doping itself.

Good stuff Dirty Works!

 

[Hemassist]

Bang on and said with verve!

Quick question about the stolen bikes & dope funding.

The book and other sources say that $180,000 was raised by selling the extra bikes, but the riders were still paying for drugs (via Del Moral) and Dr Ferrari's services.

Was the money being spent to cover the logistics (gas for moto man, Duffy's alleged hiding boots, etc)? Seem like this amount would cover doping gear for 3-4 riders, but they all reported paying out of pocket.

Editing to add:

And this is just the stuff from Trek. It sounds like other sponsors stuff was getting sold as well which might bump up the amount of off-the-book income.

Just wondering if this has been mentioned...and I did try to use the search function. I got way too many results.

 

[elizab]

I want to point to the following:

page 65 Max Testa admits in an interview with Juliet in 2006 that he "told the riders how much epo to take and when to take it" teaching them how to use it verbally as well as giving them an instruction pamphlet as well as studies on epo.

page 219 "Hincapie said he and Andreu were on Motorola in 1996 when he found a thermos filled with glass vials in their refrigerator. Andreu first said the vials were substances that would help recovery. Hincapie got him to admit that it was epo." " 'He was my role model, and I started doing epo because of him,' Hincapie said."

page 345 "When Hincapie sat with investigators after that Tour [2010], he quoted Armstrong from 1995. 'This is bull****,; Armstrong told him. 'People are using stuff.'
Hincapie said he had understood that to mean Armstrong wanted the Motorola team to us epo. So Armstrong went to Ferrari, and Hincapie eventually followed. He recounted Frankie Andreu telling him where to buy epo and how to use it, and recalled that Hamilton and Livingston used it, too."

So what in the hell are we to make of George's statements? In 1995, he states that it was Armstrong who wanted the team to use epo. Tyler wasn't even involved with them in 1995 or 1996, so why is his name even mentioned here? Then in a contradictory statement, George says that it was in 1996 when he decided to use it because of Frankie. So if it was decided that lance was in control and in 1995 he said "this is bull****. people are using stuff." (page 65) then George says "oh, wait....it's all frankie's fault" why didn't she call him out on this or maybe not catch it? I guess the question is for Max - what year did you give the guys the instructions on how to use epo? Obviously he taught them not because he was a bad guy, on the contrary, he didn't want them to kill themselves.

In george's deposition the only mention of frankie and epo is: 39. Nothing in over 1,000 pages of documents or in george's affidavit states that frankie taught him or anyone how to dope. http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie,+George+Affidavit.pdf
line 27: I understand that he [lance] meant the team had to get on epo. (keep in mind the year is 1995)

Note george states that Kevin, rider number 4 and himself discussed using epo. Frankie was not included in that discusssion.

Hence, the pulling out of my own hair. Wouldn't I like to be the one cross-examining this idiot.

page 403 "The two ... [armstrong and hincapie] are sticking together"
page 404 "Hincapie is saddened that the killer in Lance Armstrong has been silenced, and that he was one of the main reasons for it." The guy is so stupid I'm beyond words.

 

[Hemassist]

Also, the Mercier anecdote of two Spanish riders sharing a stall before the Tour Dupont is hilarious.

"Poco mas!"

I hope they didn't use the dropped syringe!


Edit: Also, the phole call DZ made.

"I just used drugs, I just became Dad."

I suppose I was looking for something to laugh as after that.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Yeah, Canada is by no means immune from the same "cancer" as existed with USPS. Don't forget Michael Barry of USPS is Canadian. He jumped in with both feet. And we have Ryder who conveniently admitted his doping after the SOL with USADA or the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (our ADA) ran out.

I don't think Cycling Canada is as corrupt as USA Cycling but just because we are the politest people on earth doesn't mean some Canadians aren't greedy or cheats.

On behalf of all Canadians I wish to apologize for this. We are sorry!

Sadly have to agree.

30 years ago the Canadian track coach was as dirty as Jenna Jameson. Fast forward to junior MTB riders popped fop epo in Victoria, BC....then Jeanson doped at 16. Would like to think its better now, but logic says if it is, it's not by much...

 

[elizab]

285 Juliet and I were eating a caprese salad in my backyard on the patio when Joe the mailman was on his route. He shouted a hi from several yards away. I shouted back, asking him if he wanted a salad, "No thanks, Betty. I have a date with one of the Olsen twins. Lance has the other."
Neither here nor there.
403 When Mancebo ended up on Frankie's team last year it was because of a merger. That had nothing to do with Frankie. Mancebo had a contract which was legally binding. Frankie wasn't happy about it but it was beyond his pay grade.
405 Armstrong has no good memories with his step dad which is bullshjt. He's said the same thing with other people he disdains. He refuses to acknowledge any fun and/or good times.

 

[Kennf1]

Two other things surprised me in the book. (1) I had assumed that Lance stepping down as chairmen of the board of LAF, and eventually leaving entirely was a mutual agreement between him and the board. Instead, the board worked together and ousted him, which prompted him to fire off a nasty curse-laden e-mail to all of the board members (would love to see that e-mail). (2) I'm amazed that Tim Herman, Armstrong, et al. were totally blindsided by USADA publishing the reasoned decision. They actually thought that by simply not contesting, that absolutely no evidence would make it's way into the public domain, or that USADA would issue some bland decision without any concrete evidence?

 

[frenchfry]

Two other things surprised me in the book. (1) I had assumed that Lance stepping down as chairmen of the board of LAF, and eventually leaving entirely was a mutual agreement between him and the board. Instead, the board worked together and ousted him, which prompted him to fire off a nasty curse-laden e-mail to all of the board members (would love to see that e-mail). (2) I'm amazed that Tim Herman, Armstrong, et al. were totally blindsided by USADA publishing the reasoned decision. They actually thought that by simply not contesting, that absolutely no evidence would make it's way into the public domain, or that USADA would issue some bland decision without any concrete evidence?

The Reasoned Decision was indeed brilliant, both the content and its release into the public domain. Game, set and match in one fell swoop.

 

[thehog]

The Reasoned Decision was indeed brilliant, both the content and its release into the public domain. Game, set and match in one fell swoop.

That is was. The key was publicly releasing the document. Without that I don't think it would have had the same effect. Sure he would have been banned by public sentiment may have remained.

 

[thehog]

Two other things surprised me in the book. (1) I had assumed that Lance stepping down as chairmen of the board of LAF, and eventually leaving entirely was a mutual agreement between him and the board. Instead, the board worked together and ousted him, which prompted him to fire off a nasty curse-laden e-mail to all of the board members (would love to see that e-mail). (2) I'm amazed that Tim Herman, Armstrong, et al. were totally blindsided by USADA publishing the reasoned decision. They actually thought that by simply not contesting, that absolutely no evidence would make it's way into the public domain, or that USADA would issue some bland decision without any concrete evidence?

The LAF story has someway to go. Id watch this space on that one.

My story is that there was some form of gentleman's agreement in y months time to take him back as part of a rehabilitation program.

But they had to remove him. That was impressive.

 

[Berzin]

My story is that there was some form of gentleman's agreement in y months time to take him back as part of a rehabilitation program.

This is nowhere near ever happening. There is no gentleman's agreement between the two parties and there never will be.

The foundation is slowly floundering. An attempt at rehabilitating Armstrong's reputation after the interviews, documentaries and books is impossible. The board members know this and have moved forward with a mission statement that will never include Armstrong ever again.

Reinstatement to the foundation was never in the cards. I don't know where you got this from, but whoever told you this was pulling your leg.

I don't even know why you would entertain this as a possibility.

 

[thehog]

This is nowhere near ever happening. There is no gentleman's agreement between the two parties and there never will be.

The foundation is slowly floundering. An attempt at rehabilitating Armstrong's reputation after the interviews, documentaries and books is impossible. The board members know this and have moved forward with a mission statement that will never include Armstrong ever again.

Reinstatement to the foundation was never in the cards. I don't know where you got this from, but whoever told you this was pulling your leg.

I don't even know why you would entertain this as a possibility.

And they said Jobs would never return to Apple? Or the Stones would every play again or Coxan join Blur on stage.

Precisely the point. If and when the foundation is on it's knees. That's when someone and/or he returns.

Give it a year. He and Doug are still in touch. It's all he has.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Quick question about the stolen bikes & dope funding.

The book and other sources say that $180,000 was raised by selling the extra bikes, but the riders were still paying for drugs (via Del Moral) and Dr Ferrari's services.

Was the money being spent to cover the logistics (gas for moto man, Duffy's alleged hiding boots, etc)? Seem like this amount would cover doping gear for 3-4 riders, but they all reported paying out of pocket.

Editing to add:

And this is just the stuff from Trek. It sounds like other sponsors stuff was getting sold as well which might bump up the amount of off-the-book income.

Just wondering if this has been mentioned...and I did try to use the search function. I got way too many results.

Floyd Landis is the source of USPS selling Trek bikes to support the USPS doping program. There is a good article in the Wall Street Journal about this. Here is the link

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...ng-bikes-fund-doping-program-article-1.464732

 

[Bosco10]

Two other things surprised me in the book. (1) I had assumed that Lance stepping down as chairmen of the board of LAF, and eventually leaving entirely was a mutual agreement between him and the board. Instead, the board worked together and ousted him, which prompted him to fire off a nasty curse-laden e-mail to all of the board members (would love to see that e-mail). (2) I'm amazed that Tim Herman, Armstrong, et al. were totally blindsided by USADA publishing the reasoned decision. They actually thought that by simply not contesting, that absolutely no evidence would make it's way into the public domain, or that USADA would issue some bland decision without any concrete evidence?

Well, Lance himself said it best, "Extraordinary accusations must be followed up by extraordinary proof." USADA gave him what he asked for.

 

[Scott SoCal]

And they said Jobs would never return to Apple? Or the Stones would every play again or Coxan join Blur on stage.

Precisely the point. If and when the foundation is on it's knees. That's when someone and/or he returns.

Give it a year. He and Doug are still in touch. It's all he has.

LS will probably fall by the wayside. They certainly will if Fraudstrong is ever re-introduced having anything to do with the charity.

Not sure if you are speculating or making stuff up. Not that there's a difference.

 

[Berzin]

And they said Jobs would never return to Apple? Or the Stones would every play again or Coxan join Blur on stage.

Precisely the point. If and when the foundation is on it's knees. That's when someone and/or he returns.

Give it a year. He and Doug are still in touch. It's all he has.

There's no way you can equate any of those circumstances with the Lance Armstrong situation.

 

[thehog]

There's no way you can equate any of those circumstances with the Lance Armstrong situation.

Ok. Just thought I'd provide my opinion and what I've talked about with a few in the LS group. It's not fact, no, just musings and what people say they heard. Like office gossip.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

This is nowhere near ever happening. There is no gentleman's agreement between the two parties and there never will be.

The foundation is slowly floundering. An attempt at rehabilitating Armstrong's reputation after the interviews, documentaries and books is impossible. The board members know this and have moved forward with a mission statement that will never include Armstrong ever again.

Reinstatement to the foundation was never in the cards. I don't know where you got this from, but whoever told you this was pulling your leg.

I don't even know why you would entertain this as a possibility.

I am at a loss to understand why the LAF continued as Livestrong. The name so identifies itself with LA they will continue to be collateral damage as Armstrong continues his fall into the abyss. Even Live-Strong would be better because it emphasizes the message they are trying to get out.

Surely some creative person could come up with a new name that encourages cancer victims to live strong. I also suspect there are a lot of celebrities whose reputations are clean enough to serve as a new spokesperson for a newly named cancer charity. Ellen DeGeneres comes to mind.

 

[elizab]

395 The abbreviated compilation of what wonderboy had to say about old friends, family, teammates, journos and cycling officials:

"The spineless pvssies included a blovhard prjck(Travis), fool, fckin' weasel, piece of shjt and weak (Tyler), as$-covering motherfckers who are crazy, batshjt crazy (he means me), certifiably crazy (Floyd), loopy, toxic, psycho and, anyway, calling her a vhore was just shorthand for saying she likes sex (did he really say that?!?), and no, he didn't sleep with his idiot teammate's wife but the thought crossed his mind (I ain't touchin' that one either)."

Wow. Just wow.

 

[elizab]

And as far as Allen Lim goes - http://www.scribd.com/doc/213422030/Pro-Cycling-July-2008-Allen-Lim-on-FL "Floyd Landis is a great guy and no matter what people think of him, he deserves a fair hearing" Allen Lim to Pro Cycling July 2008

 

[RobbieCanuck]

395 The abbreviated compilation of what wonderboy had to say about old friends, family, teammates, journos and cycling officials:

"The spineless pvssies included a blovhard prjck(Travis), fool, fckin' weasel, piece of shjt and weak (Tyler), as$-covering motherfckers who are crazy, batshjt crazy (he means me), certifiably crazy (Floyd), loopy, toxic, psycho and, anyway, calling her a vhore was just shorthand for saying she likes sex (did he really say that?!?), and no, he didn't sleep with his idiot teammate's wife but the thought crossed his mind (I ain't touchin' that one either)."

Wow. Just wow.

Lance's problem is he cannot grasp what he has done. He cannot intellectually understand how he has damaged the sport, himself and other people. He is living in his own virtual reality that has no resemblance to actual reality. He lives in a bubble.

His perception of what other people have "done" to him is so distorted his only response is to lash out with expletives and nonsensical rhetoric. It is a classic self defence mechanism. He is unable to make the adjustment from who he thinks he is to what he actually is.

 

[Granville57]

405 Armstrong has no good memories with his step dad which is bullshjt. He's said the same thing with other people he disdains. He refuses to acknowledge any fun and/or good times.

Also, according to Macur, Lance "doesn't remember ever playing youth football."

Even though there are photos of him, as a youth, in a football uniform.

Laser-like memory. Or something like that.

(Page 405)

 

[blackcat]

285 Juliet and I were eating a caprese salad in my backyard on the patio when Joe the mailman was on his route. He shouted a hi from several yards away. I shouted back, asking him if he wanted a salad, "No thanks, Betty. I have a date with one of the Olsen twins. Lance has the other."

I get the Olsens mixed up. I think the only way to solve the dilemma, is for a STD test, and whomever comes up positive to whatever Lance has, then that is the Lance chimera.

Not to be confused with Haven Parchinsky, but someone told me that Lance might have donated his STD to her also.