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Great White said:
That would be somewhat ironic though, wouldn't it? Am I supposed to be a police officer who pretended to have cancer to impress his girlfriend, according to you lot in the other thread. Did you report that?

RaceRadio has openly admitted to riding against Armstrong. If he chooses to bring that up then others are allowed to comment upon it. He's a big boy.

You're a troll who has been banned numerous times and still comes back. You are not welcome here and should expect to be treated like the unwelcome guest that you are.
 
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BikeCentric said:
You're a troll who has been banned numerous times and still comes back. You are not welcome here and should expect to be treated like the unwelcome guest that you are.

I think you have mistaken me for someone else, but I thought you said trolling was wrong?
 
Great White said:
Armstrong is the first to admit pre-cancer he wouldn't have won a single tour. It completely transformed the way he operates. Sometimes a life changing event like that, and the terrible suffering he went through - stage three kemo - can unlock the key. His whole style and approach competely changed after that time.

Yet he's the last to admit that his doping enabled him to become the rider he was, and as part of the PR coverup, overstates every other factor by an order of magnitude. Many swallow this spin as truth.

Armstrong wasn't even fully fit for the Giro this year and his blood numbers weren't suspicious in the least - plus he paced himself during the last week of the tour to avoid accidents - yet he still rolled up 12th. That's after almost four years out and at the age of 37. That puts to bed the notion that dope is the secret to his success. It maybe a very bitter and resentful fact for some people, but the guy is without doubt one of the best tour riders of his generation, and the best TdF rider we have seen.

His blood was incredibly suspicious, peaking dramatically just before the start, then falling normally. It looks very much like he transfused up to the beginning of the Giro. What it doesn't look like is that he topped off during the race.

All consistent with wanting to perform well but not caring about a win. This stands in stark contrast with his high, then re-escalating numbers during the Tour, the season goal for him.

The real difference-maker being his doping.
 
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red_flanders said:
His blood was incredibly suspicious, peaking dramatically just before the start, then falling normally. It looks very much like he transfused up to the beginning of the Giro. What it doesn't look like is that he topped off during the race.

No, it didn't look suspicious at all. Obviously they go into the race in top shape - the hard training finishes over a week or so before the tour and they let the red blood cells flood back. That is perfectly normal and reflects all blood profiles.

There is no question Armstrong was clean for the Giro - the scientist who looked at his profile through the year did not raise any suspicion over them. But Armstrong still came 12th - despite not being in full form, despite not trying in the last week, despite being out for years, and despite being 37. As I say, this puts to bed the notion that he is not a great tour rider. The evidence is just too overwhelming.
 
Great White said:
No, it didn't look suspicious at all. Obviously they go into the race in top shape - the hard training finishes over a week or so before the tour and they let the red blood cells flood back. That is perfectly normal and reflects all blood profiles.

There is no question Armstrong was clean for the Giro - the scientist who looked at his profile through the year did not raise any suspicion over them. But Armstrong still came 12th - despite not being in full form, despite not trying in the last week, despite being out for years, and despite being 37. As I say, this puts to bed the notion that he is not a great tour rider. The evidence is just too overwhelming.

Wait...I thought he was off-peak training because of the injury. Was he peaked or in "top shape"...I'm getting confused??

Where do you get this information? "They let the red blood cells flow back"? That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a forum, and that's a high bar.

Look, you can believe what you want, but you have nothing to back it up. The only aspect of the blood work "the scientist" commented on was that the decline during the Giro appeared normal and that the lack of decline during the Tour did not.

What it all shows is that without doping, Armstong, with almost a decade of GT training, could only get third while doping, and that without refueling during a race he ended up out of the top 10 in a race with far less competition than the Tour. Which is exactly the problem he faced before his Ferrari program started. He was not competitive in the TT's or climbs and his recovery was not such that he could ever be a GT winner.

Again...he changed as a rider after cancer. Granted, no question.

The real difference maker was and is his doping.
 

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red_flanders said:
Wait...I thought he was off-peak training because of the injury. Was he peaked or in "top shape"...I'm getting confused??

Where do you get this information? "They let the red blood cells flow back"? That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a forum, and that's a high bar.

Look, you can believe what you want, but you have nothing to back it up. The only aspect of the blood work "the scientist" commented on was that the decline during the Giro appeared normal and that the lack of decline during the Tour did not.

What it all shows is that without doping, Armstong, with almost a decade of GT training, could only get third while doping, and that without refueling during a race he ended up out of the top 10 in a race with far less competition than the Tour. Which is exactly the problem he faced before his Ferrari program started. He was not competitive in the TT's or climbs and his recovery was not such that he could ever be a GT winner.

Again...he changed as a rider after cancer. Granted, no question.

The real difference maker was and is his doping.
But.. but.. but... the "scientists" noted his blood flow back because he was both on and off peak which is incredible when you think he is 38 and 4 years out of competition.

Also being 39 and 8 years out of competition shows he is a great great guy and a natural, and scientists back that up with ...am, science.

Being 46 and 17 years off the bike beating 4 year olds like Contaiggns and being on and off form (often in the same day) is a sign that at 102 and 104 years off the bike he is the greatest - surely we can all agree?

Or it could just be the blood boosting.
 
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red_flanders said:
Wait...I thought he was off-peak training because of the injury. Was he peaked or in "top shape"...I'm getting confused??

No, he was able to train as normal and will have been reasonably fit, but obviously for someone wanting to win a grand tour he will not have been at the level of the top GC guys - which is a very high level indeed that usually takes a couple of years to achieve for a pro coming back.

Where do you get this information? "They let the red blood cells flow back"? That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a forum, and that's a high bar.

So you think they design their training so they start a three week grand tour with low red blood cells? Are you nuts? I've seen them talk about how they ease up the training the week before the tour. In fact Wiggins changed his routine this year so he did very little in the week before the TdF, other than keep the body ticking over. I presume they must take a couple of days break about seven days before the tour starts because it takes that length of time for the red blood cells produced by the kidneys to come to full maturity. The heavy training will crush red blood cells and order the kidneys to produce new ones. So if they train really hard and then stop for a few days - about a week before the tour - and then don't take it to the max during the four of five days before the tour starts - by the start of the tour their hematocrits will be in rude health.

Look, you can believe what you want, but you have nothing to back it up. The only aspect of the blood work "the scientist" commented on was that the decline during the Giro appeared normal and that the lack of decline during the Tour did not.

No it's you that wants to believe what you want. There is no evidence at all that Armstrong doped for the Giro and the blood work points to the opposite. I'm sure the blood scientist will have commented on something else that he saw that was suspicious. Why wouldn't he?
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
This thread is pointless, and derogatory of the site and sport. Someone convince me why it shouldn't be closed.

Please close it and ban our resident trolltard for the 12th time. His enthusiasm for typing about the object of his affection knows no bounds.

I actually am in favor of creating a seperate "Lance Armstrong" section on the forum at this point. That may finally rid us of the troll as that is all it talks about.
 
Big Doopie said:
i agree with everything else you said...but this was a little odd.

rominger did come into the sport fairly late but he finished 80+th in the 1989 tour and showed nothing until he found...

ferrari.

rominger owes his whole career to ferrari and epo.

I double-checked the stats and that was indeed a poor comparison although he did finish 2nd in TT & mountain stage(which he thought he had won) at the 87 Giro and was leading the best young rider competition into the third week but then dropped out in the last week.

Rominger only took up cycling in his early 20s and turned pro at age 25 and 87was his second season. He didnt have any significant GT results until he hooked up with Ferrari as you correctly pointed out. I remember the spin at the time was that he suffered badly from hay fever and this hindered his performances in the summer Tours, he finally sorted that problem when he started working with Ferrari and started going like a train.;)
 
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