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daft UCI attitude to disk brakes on road bikes?

Why are the UCI still not allowing disk brakes on road bikes? On mountain bikes disk brakes have now completely taken over & are just better in every way than the dismal V-brakes that went before.
If the UCI would only allow them on road bikes too we could expect disk brakes on cross bikes within a season and fabulous new ultra-light disk brakes for road bikes within 2 or 3 years. What's not to like about that? It should also mean the pros could get down the Alpine passes even quicker than they do at the moment. What does everyone else think?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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They make the bike look ugly, that's reason enough for me :D.

Seriously, when's the last time the current crop of brakes failed you assuming the brakes didn't have a defect?

Never.

I'm all for tech upgrading but don't see who this will greatly improve things or is your current stopping power not enough? OK, maybe you don't want to wear out your super expesive carbon wheels (I wouldn't either) so disc's might be an option but I still don't see it.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Then I left out, who wants someone with the ability to litterally stop on a dime in a massive group ride/race? Not me! Its bad enough now with some noobie riding the brakes in the pack now add disc brakes, no thank you.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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ElChingon said:
They make the bike look ugly, that's reason enough for me :D.

Seriously, when's the last time the current crop of brakes failed you assuming the brakes didn't have a defect?

Never.

I'm all for tech upgrading but don't see who this will greatly improve things or is your current stopping power not enough? OK, maybe you don't want to wear out your super expesive carbon wheels (I wouldn't either) so disc's might be an option but I still don't see it.

+1

IMHO for a road bike it's a solution looking for a problem, side-pull brakes have more than enough stopping power plus they are easy to setup and maintain.
 
May 12, 2009
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No need for them on road bikes, and in fact they might make pack riding more dangerous.

However, seems to me you could make a pretty good case for them on 'cross bikes, where they are also prohibited.
 
Mar 4, 2009
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This is all sounding an awful lot like the arguments people used to have when disc brakes were first coming on the scene with mountain bikes.

This isn't a question of ultimate stopping power - which will forever be more a limitation of tire adhesion - or brake reliability. Assuming they're properly engineered for this application, disc brakes on road bikes have a number of potential benefits:

- far improved modulation for more *controllable* power
- lighter rim weights as rims would no longer have to be built to cope with brake clamp forces
- fewer tire blowouts due to heat build-up
- more aerodynamic rim shapes

On the negative side, frame weights would almost certainly go up as they'd need to be reinforced to deal with caliper stresses and static wheel weights (but potentially not inertia) might go up as well with the addition of a rotor and attachment points on the hub.

Either way, I suspect people's opinions of this might strongly depend on their local terrain, too. Here in Colorado there are descents that can last a half hour or more and you can easily hit 100km/h - in neither situation does a few small rubber blocks clamping on aluminum (or worse, carbon) rims strike me as an ideal solution for a wide variety of reasons.

But in regards to the UCI: ha! This issue almost certainly has little to do with function and much more to do with what the UCI sees as a 'proper' bicycle in their eyes.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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James

Sorry I dont agree with you there.Road bikes are all about the weight adding discs will not help road bikes at all.


- far improved modulation for more *controllable* power. Yes maybe.


- lighter rim weights as rims would no longer have to be built to cope with brake clamp forces. Lighter rims at the expense of heavier disc rotors,brakes,hoses.


- fewer tire blowouts due to heat build-up. ??? Really Ive been riding for more than 20 years and have never heard of anyone having a tire blow out due to heat build up.


- more aerodynamic rim shapes . very minimal.
 
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Road bikes are all about *intelligent* weight, and how light a rider decides to go is largely dependent on what their particular needs are. Case in point: the growing trend of power meters, all of which add a substantial amount of weight. Moreover, I think you might be overestimating how much weight a disc brake system might add.

For example, Shimano XTR V-brake system is about 560g for a complete set without cables and housing while the disc brakes are about 800g including two calipers, a pair of levers and a two 160mm rotors, again without hoses or fluid - a difference of about 250g. Keep in mind that hydraulic line and fluid is generally lighter than the equivalent length of conventional brake cable and housing (both of which are steel) and disc brakes built specifically for the road wouldn't need to be super powerful. Factor in the heavier hubs, the lighter rims, the heavier frame... would still be heavier but probably not be as much as you think and depending on the particular user's needs it might very well be weight well spent.

As for tires blowing off the rim due to heat: I've no idea what your local terrain is like but it's not an infrequent occurrence here and definitely something that needs to be considered. Rims can get VERY hot during a descent and if there's enough of it any of the following can occur:

- pressure increases to a point where the rim simply can't hold on anymore, resulting in a blowout
- for carbon clinchers, the resins can soften to the point where they're no longer able to hold the fibers in place. The sidewalls bulge out as a result, resulting in a blowout
- for tubulars, the heat can soften the glue to the point where it simply doesn't work very well anymore. This wouldn't result in a blowout but I'd say a rolled tubular at speed isn't any better.

I've been lucky enough to not suffer personally from any of the above but I have been on rides where it's happened to people I've ridden with. In fact, on a group ride in Georgia there were THREE blowouts among us coming down Brasstown Bald Mountain. It absolutely does happen and the outcome is almost never good.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I've been witness to only a handful of blowouts in 20+ years on the road, usually only during racing though. Only once on a training ride at about a 90kph descent into a hard switchback, I was about 40 meters ahead of my friend, when all of a sudden I heard what sounded like a 9mm handgun going off. BOOM! His tire was completely shredded on one side, and the bead of the clincher was melted to the rim.

Something that really has to be taken into consideration is descending skill, technique, and weight. Even the heaviest of pros posses the skill and proper braking techniques with standard side pull calipers on the lightest of wheels that will get them down a mountain safely time and time again. I'm fairly heavy for a roadie, 178lbs. my last check, so I've been kind of forced into becoming a good descender, and I can say safely that I've never had a tire blowout, or a tubular roll (knock on wood). I don't need disk, and many others don't either. They are overkill for the road, and like mentioned before take away from the aesthetics of a road machine. To play the devil's (UCI) advocate, from a safety standpoint, a pile up in a pro road peloton riding with disk brakes, someone will get massacred.:eek:
 
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Even the heaviest of pros posses the skill and proper braking techniques with standard side pull calipers on the lightest of wheels that will get them down a mountain safely time and time again.

I think you meant to say 'usually get them down a mountain safely'. There are plenty of instances of pros flying off the side of the road because they couldn't quite make the corner (Jan Ullrich comes to mind!). Would disc brakes help? Hard to say. But more often than not it's safer to have more braking power/control than you need than not enough.

Either way, yes, I agree that aesthetics are an issue and crashing into someone with a disc brake rotor probably wouldn't be good. But regardless, it'd be good for the UCI to be more open to things like this such that riders and teams can make the choice for themselves. As a side benefit, companies would then have more motivation to develop the technology which would ultimately trickle down to regular consumers - most of whom wouldn't be as skilled as pros.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I'd could see the UCI accepting disk in cross before road, due to the unique nature of a road peloton being 130+ all riding together most of the time, 20 man pileups with disk brake rotors flying all over the place would look like a horror show.

However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if disk brakes were accepted by the UCI on the road in the next few years as an option to rim brakes in the mountains during GTs. Completely unnecessary in the Spring Classics though.
 
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I'd could see the UCI accepting disk in cross before road, due to the unique nature of a road peloton being 130+ all riding together most of the time, 20 man pileups with disk brake rotors flying all over the place would look like a horror show.

However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if disk brakes were accepted by the UCI on the road in the next few years as an option to rim brakes in the mountains during GTs. Completely unnecessary on flat stages, or during the Spring Classics.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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ukpaul said:
- fewer tire blowouts due to heat build-up. ??? Really Ive been riding for more than 20 years and have never heard of anyone having a tire blow out due to heat build up.

Usually happens to brake happy people or those who ride the brakes, much like people who drive with two feet.

I usually try to not brake on long descents (when I can) in thinking there might be some heat building up and have even squirted water to cool it down in case there was a heat build up. Some people also let out some air in thinking it will allow some buffer before a blow out occurs. You can always stop if you feel its getting too hot as a last stop measure and take the descent in sections, you can always say your hand cramped up, as can happen if you're not used to using the brakes so much.
 
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
I'd could see the UCI accepting disk in cross before road, due to the unique nature of a road peloton being 130+ all riding together most of the time, 20 man pileups with disk brake rotors flying all over the place would look like a horror show.

However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if disk brakes were accepted by the UCI on the road in the next few years as an option to rim brakes in the mountains during GTs. Completely unnecessary on flat stages, or during the Spring Classics.

I would rather the UCI test water bottle holders before the spring classics races to avoid the dreaded water bottle pile up! Why is it I can keep my water bottles in their cages and the rest of the world for some reason have them fall out due to the slightest bump in the road? I know the cobbles introduce their own reasons for it but still some riders go over it with both water bottles intact and some don't get to the second cobble before the bottle is launched. I think this year was the best so far in not covering the cobbles with water bottles though.
 
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I read this late last year in velonews:

The UCI 'cross commission voted to allow disc brakes. Now the ball is in the management committee’s court. The management committee will meet again in January during the world cyclocross championships and the disc brake question is on the agenda. For them to approve it, they would have to find a way to separate out a rule allowing for disc brakes in 'cross but not for the road, or decide to allow disc brakes on the road as well.

I assume the January meeting did not go well, huh?
 
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ElChingon said:
I would rather the UCI test water bottle holders before the spring classics races to avoid the dreaded water bottle pile up!

Tell me about it! I was at the Café de l'Arbre in the '02 Roubiax on the famous "Pavé bleu", those nasty blue granite cobbles!!! I gotta tell ya, riding around in that area, the least of my worries was my bottles launching, which one almost did, I was just concentrating on keeping upright.:eek:
 
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benlondon said:
Why are the UCI still not allowing disk brakes on road bikes? On mountain bikes disk brakes have now completely taken over & are just better in every way than the dismal V-brakes that went before.
If the UCI would only allow them on road bikes too we could expect disk brakes on cross bikes within a season and fabulous new ultra-light disk brakes for road bikes within 2 or 3 years. What's not to like about that? It should also mean the pros could get down the Alpine passes even quicker than they do at the moment. What does everyone else think?

What's not to like? Expensive, major changes to levers, hubs, frames and forks, expensive, less reliable, heavier, much more complicated. Rim brakes are effective, inexpensive, simple. I don' think the makers of 900 gram frames are going to rush to make their LH stays strong enough to handle a disc brake nor are the component makers going to make their levers hydraulic disc compatible. Mechanical discs are much poorer than road calipers.

Like tubeless, great for cross, MTB but an answer to a not asked question for road bikes.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I think you will find that adding Disc brakes to a Road bike makes it no heavier and quite blatently has significant advantages over caliper brakes.

Its rather silly to use traditionalism and conservatism as an argument against technological advantages.

I would suggest that sharper braking would lessen, not increase, the amount of crashes. It would certainly, in certain cases, limit the amount of people effected by a crash. The idea that people would suddenly start hitting their brakes and get hit from behind is a bit over the top really. They are easily adjusted to stop them being "that" sharp. Additionally, most road brakes would move immediately to Carbon or Ceramic compounds, which are going to be less abrasive then current mountain bike styles.

I would also suggest that in the wet - there would be massive advantages. As someone who rides with Swisstop pads on Carbon Clinchers, I am literally terrified by the prospect of riding long descents in the British rain. We have a rather large amount of 1/4 and steeper descents (ie, steeper descents that most places), with sharp and blind corners. Effecient braking from disc brakes would be exceptionally useful and far better than my current situation.

As for weight, give me a brake. This is simply not going to happen. If manufacturers were allowed by teh UCI to experiment and alter the way in which their bikes were made, they would be safer, stronger, more effecient and far lighter.

Now for the example! The Beru F1 systems Factor 001. Very impressive road bike. Strong, light (under 7kgs and around the UCI limit). This has disc brakes with a Carbon-Ceramic Composite - which is not super sharp, nor is it impacted by water or heat, in the same way caliper brakes are. For all those lost in the 19th Century, welcome to the 21st.

E2008.187.1.jpg


Technical Details
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Ovidius said:
Now for the example! The Beru F1 systems Factor 001.

So where is this super bike? Its the best braking system as you say but where is it? Its the 21st Century already, please send link to web order site, its 21st Century so definitely available in the web for sure. :rolleyes:

Price? Aero numbers? Stiffness numbers we've been asking for from the 19th Century makers who don't know or care to post them, 21st Century maker for sure will have them at the drop of a hat, right?
 
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ElChingon said:
So where is this super bike? Its the best braking system as you say but where is it? Its the 21st Century already, please send link to web order site, its 21st Century so definitely available in the web for sure. :rolleyes:

Price? Aero numbers? Stiffness numbers we've been asking for from the 19th Century makers who don't know or care to post them, 21st Century maker for sure will have them at the drop of a hat, right?


This super bike is currently sat in the National Science Museum in London. But yes, Beru F1 Systems will make you one if you want they are costing £25000 (or £16000 without the integrated wired sensor systems) and there will be about 300 made (all made to measure) at a rate of 2 per week - Available from June. I'm told that Louis Hamilton will own the first one. From reviews I read, it was exceptionally stiff and responsive. Being a company that literally makes Formular 1 equipment, I'd suggest that it is pretty good.

So you can continue to pretend that this bike doesn't exist - but I assure you that it does and it has been ridden by Journalists in the UK.

As for Stiffness and Aero numbers, I'm pretty sure if you showed an interest in them with the Company, they would probably let you have them. I'd suggest that if anyone knows about aero it would be an F1 Company. As for stiffness, just look at the bike!! There is no chance on earth that it isn't stiff and possibly stiffer than most bikes! heh.
 
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Ovidius said:
As for Stiffness and Aero numbers, I'm pretty sure if you showed an interest in them with the Company, they would probably let you have them. I'd suggest that if anyone knows about aero it would be an F1 Company. As for stiffness, just look at the bike!! There is no chance on earth that it isn't stiff and possibly stiffer than most bikes! heh.

That is the same thing the 19th Century makers say... still no data. Its stiff, yea, I get it :rolleyes:
 

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