Dan Martin - "Now I know you can win clean"

[Benotti69]

Cycling is an individual sport. Or is Gerrans tainted (not that he's clean but whatever) because Luigi towed him?

Cycling is an individual sport with teams of up to 9 riders in a race.

Hesjedal's doping does not prove Dan Martin doped.

But it definitely shows Garmin are as PR minded like Sky and are as bad at it too.

Garmin sure do have a lot of experience of doping and of all their dopers, is it only Dekker who tested positive?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Cycling is an individual sport with teams of up to 9 riders in a race.

Hesjedal's doping does not prove Dan Martin doped.

But it definitely shows Garmin are as PR minded like Sky and are as bad at it too.

Garmin sure do have a lot of experience of doping and of all their dopers, is it only Dekker who tested positive?

It does make considerable difference if there are teammates in the finale energy wise and tactically. Without Hesjedal, it would have decreased Martin's chances of winning. He would have had to chase instead on sitting on wheels.
Did Hesjedal dope in 2003 - yes.
Did he dope in 2013 - possible, as once who has succumbed to the temptation of doping can certainly do so again.
Where does that leave Martin - With a bad taste in his mouth especially after his comments about clean wins.
What is also hypocritical about Garmin is that they treat dopers differently. Hesjedal was let into the team without many questions whereas JV made Dekker undergo a cathartic process in which he had to literally bare his soul. At the end, both are proven dopers.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Cycling is an individual sport. Or is Gerrans tainted (not that he's clean but whatever) because Luigi towed him?

That is a question for del1962 or not?

I agree with Benotti here. Cycling is a team sport. Dan being towed by a selfconfessed epo mule versus the ones - no donks there - behind them is not something to be proud about.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Cycling is an individual sport. Or is Gerrans tainted (not that he's clean but whatever) because Luigi towed him?

Hesjedal's performance took the legs out of J-Rod and potentially Valverde. It helped Martin win the race. I simply assume Hesjedal was doped with epo at the time.

Is Martin's win clean?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Hesjedal's performance took the legs out of J-Rod and potentially Valverde. It helped Martin win the race. I simply assume Hesjedal was doped with epo at the time.

Is Martin's win clean?

Or cleans?

Pro cycling, still an enigma.

 

[sniper]

Cycling is an individual sport. Or is Gerrans tainted (not that he's clean but whatever) because Luigi towed him?

But did gerrans subsequently sing the song of clean cycling like dan?
i think dazed&confused,s point is a good one.
lets hear dan bring some more nuance into the story.

 

[Netserk]

But did gerrans subsequently sing the song of clean cycling like dan?
i think dazed&confused,s point is a good one.
lets hear dan bring some more nuance into the story.

Officially, Ryder was clean that day

 

[sniper]

Officially, Ryder was clean that day

yap.

in any case, following the hesjedal (&weltz) revelations, we can have hope that journos won't let daniel get away with gratuite statements like these.

“We haven’t let it affect us. We go out there and race hard every day. We prove every day it’s possible to race clean,” said Martin.

“Ryder (Hesjedal) won the Giro clean. Christian has proven that he’s had the best results of his career since he’s come to this team. Since he’s been racing clean with Garmin. That says a lot. All three of those guys, not just Christian.”

Martin said he is lucky to have turned pro in a time when the sport has turned the corner on the doping issue. Vaughters founded the Slipstream Sports organization in part to provide a dope-free environment for riders to train and perform.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...-garmin-backs-its-testifying-teammates_256715

 

[the sceptic]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...tin-links-his-success-to-cleaner-sport_309006

I like him and think he is clean.

However he sounds like he has attended JVs PR school with this stuff.

 

[gerundium]

not really clinic related but love this quote by Martin from the above article:

&#8220]

 

[sniper]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...tin-links-his-success-to-cleaner-sport_309006

I like him and think he is clean.

However he sounds like he has attended JVs PR school with this stuff.

Sad. That interview kills the last doubts i had about daniel.

In this cleaner era we,re not getting any increased transparency, just a sharply increased amount of hollow pr statements.
Meanwhile story,s such as hesjedals are a big moral support for the cheats. Sends the message that you can cheat to get a good contract, and get away without punishment.

Me thinks the docs are getting smarter, and of course learning from the recent past.
antidoping is developing at half the pace. With so much dough at stake, i dunno why it would be the other way around.

I expect very few positives among toptier riders in the coming years.
If anybody gets busted, it probably wont be through antidoping.

I think martin dopes smart and with sufficient medical guidance to fly below the radar.

I wonder what garmin spend on the medical department compared to other teams.

 

[roundabout]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...tin-links-his-success-to-cleaner-sport_309006

I like him and think he is clean.

However he sounds like he has attended JVs PR school with this stuff.

Sounds like **** Gilbert would say.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I wonder what garmin spend on the medical department compared to other teams.

From the horse's mouth, as Catwhoorg might say:

I don't tell my team not to dope. I spend over $500,000 annually to make sure they don't. I set up a truth and reward policy to make sure there is clarity as to what is going on AND I allow any journalist any access they desire.

In addition Ive worked actively with WADA and USADA since 2004 to help improve their testing methods and execution and volunteered my team to try new testing methods.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1073738&postcount=2000

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It was such a huge win and it’s something I know that three or four years ago would have been impossible.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...tin-links-his-success-to-cleaner-sport_309006

Interview: 10th November, 2013

2013 - 3 == 2010 : Not possible to win a classic clean
2013 - 4 == 2009 : Not possible to win a classic clean

Something about this timeline disagrees with the reasoned decision timeline of "we stopped doping in 2006".

What's the likelihood a bunch of people (in cycling) would agree to let Dan Martin win a race because of his #clean tag, and the #proof of a #clean peloton it would provide?

 

[the sceptic]

He is part of a new clean generation. Not sure what happened to the doping generation of 2009 though.

 

[sniper]

From the horse's mouth, as Catwhoorg might say:

Thanks for that.
have you any idea how that compares to other teams?

edit: the 2006 timeline in the affidavots is indeed bullocks. What is worrying is how usada take that at face value and even vouch for it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Thanks for that.
have you any idea how that compares to other teams?

I am not 100% sure, but fairly confident JV via Garmin is the only pro team that can boast about

* internal testing
* getting notice of new testing protocols from WADA to try out on their riders

Speaking of which. How do you trial a new dope-testing protocol on riders that never dope? Wouldn't that just turn up negatives or false positives? I am questioning the usefulness of this as an exercise.

I know when Ashenden et al are doing EPO dope-testing trials they get volunteers - some of which are on placebo, and some of which use EPO so like, you know the test actually gets tested...

I'm looking at the annual returns from Team Sky, and there are no entries for "internal testing". The entries that could allude to that are in a similar ball park, but without breakdowns on both sides, it's too difficult to tell.

 

[blackcat]

2013 - 3 == 2010 : Not possible to win a classic clean
2013 - 4 == 2009 : Not possible to win a classic clean

Something about this timeline disagrees with the reasoned decision timeline of "we stopped doping in 2006".

What's the likelihood a bunch of people (in cycling) would agree to let Dan Martin win a race because of his #clean tag, and the #proof of a #clean peloton it would provide?

give him a break DW. hes autistic and dyslexic

 

[blackcat]

I am not 100% sure, but fairly confident JV via Garmin is the only pro team that can boast about

* internal testing
* getting notice of new testing protocols from WADA to try out on their riders

Speaking of which. How do you trial a new dope-testing protocol on riders that never dope? Wouldn't that just turn up negatives or false positives? I am questioning the usefulness of this as an exercise.

I know when Ashenden et al are doing EPO dope-testing trials they get volunteers - some of which are on placebo, and some of which use EPO so like, you know the test actually gets tested...

I'm looking at the annual returns from Team Sky, and there are no entries for "internal testing". The entries that could allude to that are in a similar ball park, but without breakdowns on both sides, it's too difficult to tell.

need to trial pregnancy tests too.

Garmin would be ideal.

 

[blackcat]

Or cleans?

Pro cycling, still an enigma.

i'd go with smegma before enigma

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm looking at the annual returns from Team Sky, and there are no entries for "internal testing". The entries that could allude to that are in a similar ball park, but without breakdowns on both sides, it's too difficult to tell.

I forgot

Team Sky's PR and marketing budget goes as follows. Keeping in mind, this is GBP, so scale up for your currency of choice.

2009 - 7k
2010 - 214k
2011 - 1,085k (ie 1.085 million pounds)
2012 - 981k

Given that PR and marketing is the sole reason for a team's existence (ie get your jersey on the TV during a race), the fact that so much was spent above and beyond all the operating expenses devoted to this "get on TV" goal seems curious to me.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

JV's quote from Wiggo's post:

"I don't tell my team not to dope. I spend over $500,000 annually to make sure they don't. I set up a truth and reward policy to make sure there is clarity as to what is going on AND I allow any journalist any access they desire.

In addition Ive worked actively with WADA and USADA since 2004 to help improve their testing methods and execution and volunteered my team to try new testing methods."

For some reason, this just struck me, and it is as sad a commentary as you can find regarding the state of pro cycling.

JV is, ostensibly, running The Clean Team. How clean? Guaranteed, 100%. JV would even bet his life that a past doper is now clean. That's pretty f*cking serious.

Even with this level of belief, even with he himself running the cleanest of teams, even with his 'get out of jail free' disclosure meetings with riders, and even with all the support he can give repentant dopers, he STILL HAS TO SPEND HALF A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR "to make sure they don't".

That blows my mind, and really makes me feel disappointed in what cycling has become.

FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR!

Is that to make sure they're not doping, or to make sure they're not positive?

 

[42x16ss]

JV's quote from Wiggo's post:

"I don't tell my team not to dope. I spend over $500,000 annually to make sure they don't. I set up a truth and reward policy to make sure there is clarity as to what is going on AND I allow any journalist any access they desire.

In addition Ive worked actively with WADA and USADA since 2004 to help improve their testing methods and execution and volunteered my team to try new testing methods."

For some reason, this just struck me, and it is as sad a commentary as you can find regarding the state of pro cycling.

JV is, ostensibly, running The Clean Team. How clean? Guaranteed, 100%. JV would even bet his life that a past doper is now clean. That's pretty f*cking serious.

Even with this level of belief, even with he himself running the cleanest of teams, even with his 'get out of jail free' disclosure meetings with riders, and even with all the support he can give repentant dopers, he STILL HAS TO SPEND HALF A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR "to make sure they don't".

That blows my mind, and really makes me feel disappointed in what cycling has become.

FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR!

Is that to make sure they're not doping, or to make sure they're not positive?

How cynical are you feeling today?

I know which one I want it to be, but sadly, I'm pretty sure which one it actually is...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Wow! I gotta lay off the 'posting while in pain' (broken leg), that was little dramatic...

 

[Benotti69]

Why would WADA or USADA waste money and time testing clean riders?

Comical JV really has pulled the wool over peoples eyes.

Internal testing, yep that is another way to perfect getting riders programs to the point where they know how much and when they can do it before they flag the BP or test positive.