Dan Martin - "Now I know you can win clean"

[blackcat]

Train with PEDs. Don't dope for races.

Dave.

I think you just libel'ed me. or would it be slander.

call it defamed for evens...

is this fora registered in Brit Armstrong-Walsh-Times deffo law?

bewtie!

 

[blackcat]

Train with PEDs. Don't dope for races.

aka chicken rasmussen in training camp in dolomiti, but dont let an italian rai cycling commentator see you

 

[Ferminal]

as much as I like D Martin - There is this "doubt" surrounding Garmin-since JV is so full of sh!t, & by that alone is where I just don't trust anything happening in that team- I might say they "could be cleanER", perhaps always working borderline,etc. Lets not forget Wiggo's sudden GT skills appeared while riding for Garmin....

JV full of ****?

I don't necessarily agree with what he says on things along the lines of having complete confidence that all in his team are clean, but I don't doubt his honesty. There are plenty of doubts to be had about Slipstream but JV is not one of them, imo.

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...alk-about-links-to-banned-doctor-ferrari.html

Compare Dan's words today with Kreuziger's

 

[gooner]

Fair play to that journalist in not letting it go.

Good on him.

 

[BroDeal]

JV full of ****?

I don't necessarily agree with what he says on things along the lines of having complete confidence that all in his team are clean, but I don't doubt his honesty. There are plenty of doubts to be had about Slipstream but JV is not one of them, imo.

It is hard to trust someone who on one hand claims he fights against doping but on the other hand urges Landis not to name names.

 

[victorschipolrijk]

Evans Tour 2011, Hesjedal Giro 2012, Wiggins Tour 2012, Martin LBL 2013, Froome Tour 2013. The squeaky-clean anglos are tearing it up.

Hesjedal , Martin , anglos ?????????????

 

[victorschipolrijk]

You don't have to dope. We will test you a lot internally.

Just to make sure you don't get caught , you know what I mean ???

 

[42x16ss]

IIRC, he told Landis not to name names to the press.

Slight difference.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just to make sure you don't get caught , you know what I mean ???

No, only Spanish internal testing companies are doing this sort of reverse-anti doping. All the euro-centric internal testing is completely above board and innocent.

I can provide a link if you want proof.

 

[42x16ss]

It is hard to trust someone who on one hand claims he fights against doping but on the other hand urges Landis not to name names.

IIRC, he told Landis not to name names to the press.

Slight difference.

 

[victorschipolrijk]

as much as I like D Martin - There is this "doubt" surrounding Garmin-since JV is so full of sh!t, & by that alone is where I just don't trust anything happening in that team- I might say they "could be cleanER", perhaps always working borderline,etc. Lets not forget Wiggo's sudden GT skills appeared while riding for Garmin....

I hear you man .

It is truly amazing that a "clean" rider like Martin can beat doped to the gills guys like Rodriguez or Valverde .

 

[victorschipolrijk]

No, only Spanish internal testing companies are doing this sort of reverse-anti doping. All the euro-centric internal testing is completely above board and innocent.

I can provide a link if you want proof.

Are you a bigot ??????????

Why only Spanish ????????????

Armstrong did it with Catlin , didn't he ???????

Where do you get the notion that euro-centric internal testing is 100% legit ???

 

[beowulf]

I have always believed that a clean cyclist is more likely to win one of the "Classics" as opposed to a "Grand Tour". If a clean rider peaks for a particular "Classic" I really believe they have a chance of winning.

As for the "Grand Tours" I do not believe there has been a clean winner since the 80's.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Are you a bigot ??????????

Why only Spanish ????????????

Armstrong did it with Catlin , didn't he ???????

Where do you get the notion that euro-centric internal testing is 100% legit ???

Calm down. You don't know me, so I will remember to include a smiley face next time.

And no, Lance did nothing with Catlin, where have you been? Seriously. They announced Catlin's involvement then shelved it a month later citing costs.

I am providing a precis of an article written by Joe Lindsey, who wrote

The Agency for Cycling Ethics is the forerunner of what may become a cottage industry for Olympic sports, or may be co-opted into the World Anti-Doping Agency. ACE, which also operates as the Agency for Sports Ethics, is a Los Angeles-based company that offers testing and results management services for pro cycling teams. Current clients include
1. Garmin-Chipotle,
2. Team Columbia and
3. BMC Racing. The company has had discussions with athletes and teams in other sports, but does not currently have any clients outside cycling.


The program it manages differs from traditional anti-doping testing in several ways. First, testing is far more frequent. As clients in ACE's Pure Sport program, Garmin-Chipotle and Columbia riders will each be tested an average of 26 times per year, giving blood and urine samples. Testing is largely random and occurs on average every two weeks.


Second, the testing protocol is built around compiling a historical profile of an athlete's results - the very tactic that WADA rules currently prohibit in traditional testing.

after pushing the Spanish into the mud in the previous paragraph with

So what does all that mean? A clever athlete could still potentially dope and not go past these levels. In a development last week, two major Spanish newspapers wrote that Marcos Maynar, a Spanish doctor for the Portuguese LA-MSS team had propositioned 10 other teams offering to set up a kind of reverse anti-doping program. For a fee, he would conduct urine testing and steroid profiles on riders to ensure they would not test positive. Maynar denies the accusations. It is the job of ACE, Garmin's testing partner, to make sure that a clever athlete cannot fool his team.

Given my belief that anti-doping crusaders like JV are in fact anti-doping scandal, I fail to see how you can differentiate the two.

read more here: http://www.christianvandeveldefancl...aris_Part_2_by_Joe_Lindsey_Bicycling.com.html

 

[blackcat]

I have always believed that a clean cyclist is more likely to win one of the "Classics" as opposed to a "Grand Tour". If a clean rider peaks for a particular "Classic" I really believe they have a chance of winning.

As for the "Grand Tours" I do not believe there has been a clean winner since the 80's.

maybe if the race is 180km long

250 -> 260km = NOT NORMAL

when little richie porte wins a classic i will believe then
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in miracles! or mirages

 

[beowulf]

maybe if the race is 180km long

250 -> 260km = NOT NORMAL

when little richie porte wins a classic i will believe then

in miracles! or mirages

All I wrote was that I thought it was more likely to happen in a "Classics". There are many factors that affect a race, so I could see it happening, though not all that often.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have always believed that a clean cyclist is more likely to win one of the "Classics" as opposed to a "Grand Tour". If a clean rider peaks for a particular "Classic" I really believe they have a chance of winning.

As for the "Grand Tours" I do not believe there has been a clean winner since the 80's.

Correct.
Martin has already finished 2nd in Lombardy, so his pedigree is already known.

A better barometer will be where he finishes in the Tour - he is a natural climber, and should be capable of a high finish, yet I bet when it the final GC is in martin will be nowhere near the top.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't believe it. Especially after saying it. Why mention anything at all.


Maybe race clean, but train with peds.

Exactly. Whenever someone says it, I don't believe it anymore

 

[Orvieto]

This is a bizarre thread. Martin is being castigated for answering questions about doping and promoting clean riding. What is this reverse-omerta? Do we not want riders speaking out to promote clean riding?

It's pretty usual nowadays for any winner of a cycling race to have his achievement questioned. That is the legacy that a generation of doped riders has left. Win a big race and your name will appear in the clinic. As fans we've earned the right to be sceptical. Riders who have won without cheating have earned the right to brag about it.

If it ever turns out that they lied, their hypocrisy only deepens their disgrace, but it should not stop clean winners from promoting clean riding.

 

[armchairclimber]

I guess that only time will tell. The anti-doping optimists amongst us will see Dan Martin's win as further evidence that clean riders can and do win against known dopers. The pessimists will just suspect Dan Martin of doping.

 

[42x16ss]

This is a bizarre thread. Martin is being castigated for answering questions about doping and promoting clean riding. What is this reverse-omerta? Do we not want riders speaking out to promote clean riding?

It's pretty usual nowadays for any winner of a cycling race to have his achievement questioned. That is the legacy that a generation of doped riders has left. Win a big race and your name will appear in the clinic. As fans we've earned the right to be sceptical. Riders who have won without cheating have earned the right to brag about it.

If it ever turns out that they lied, their hypocrisy only deepens their disgrace, but it should not stop clean winners from promoting clean riding.

It's amusing that people defending Dan Martin after his Catalunya win not long ago are already turning a full 180 even though he won after having Hesjedal do the lion's share of the heavy work on a course that (arguably) suits him better than any other...

 

[Ferminal]

Martin did no more/less work than anyone else who bridged to Hesjedal on Saint Nicolas. Without doubt he was the strongest.

 

[Dalakhani]

Maybe I'm spending too much time in here, but this seemed very interesting:

“Now I know you can win clean.

(My emphasis.)

Before that, he said:

Obviously with Garmin we’ve had Ryder win the Giro last year and even with Brad (Wiggins) winning the Tour last year that, for me, made me believe that you can win clean.”

Now he "knows", before he only "believed".

So... and here's my question, why is he convinced "now"? Why not last May?

Does he have doubts over Hesjedal?

Of course, it may simply be that he was riding the wave of emotion and was havering... and that we shouldn't read too much into it.

I don't know. Should I have my tin foil hat on or off?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Its impossible to know if Martin doped and of course Garmin have lots of skeletons in the closet.

However the actual performance yesterday looked believable. It was a soft race for the most part, lots of riders were hanging around deep into the finale and in the end Martin had the best kick after J-Rod and Valverde used up energy at various points.

Hesjedal was probably the guy who looked the most suspicious as he dropped several good riders and paced Martin for long periods afterwards.