Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

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Re:

samhocking said:
This is the real world DFA123, it doesn't make sense all of the time. The separation of Sports & News Journalist is as old as media itself. No point saying it's absurd, everyone already knows this.
Well, clearly it's not separated any more. Because several journalists are reporting on both the sports and the corruption. It looks like times have changed for the better; and, at least regarding Sky, the 'news' side is unescapably lined to the sporting side right now. Brailsford is stuck in the past once again it seems. And he is the only person coming out of this badly; throwing his toys out of the pram when he can't control the message.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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The Hitch said:
sniper said:
Not to take anything away from Ryan, there was an interesting suggestion made by someone that Brailsford's rant was actually directed at the Clinic (and its extension on twitter). Frustrated about the things he can't control.
Don't know if that's too much praise for the antidoping trolls, but I like to think there's truth in it.
Most of the world agrees with the clinic. Ask anybody in the street if they think cycling is doped and 9 out of 10 won't let you even get past the world cycling without shouting "its all doped".

Brailsfraud who travels round the world watching cycling races, doesn't have to have read the clinic to feel this sentiment.
Agreed, fair point.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
This is the real world DFA123, it doesn't make sense all of the time. The separation of Sports & News Journalist is as old as media itself. No point saying it's absurd, everyone already knows this.
Well, clearly it's not separated any more. Because several journalists are reporting on both the sports and the corruption. It looks like times have changed for the better; and, at least regarding Sky, the 'news' side is unescapably lined to the sporting side right now. Brailsford is stuck in the past once again it seems. And he is the only person coming out of this badly; throwing his toys out of the pram when he can't control the message.

Cyclingnews might think they are changing things, the reality is different. They now no longer have access to the team perhaps about to win the sports biggest event of the year and perhaps the sports next biggest anti-doping story (or not). As I said, Ryan needs to set up his stall as a news journalist and be known for this, or return to being a sports reporter. He can't be both, it doesn't work like this as he's now discovered.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
This is the real world DFA123, it doesn't make sense all of the time. The separation of Sports & News Journalist is as old as media itself. No point saying it's absurd, everyone already knows this.
Well, clearly it's not separated any more. Because several journalists are reporting on both the sports and the corruption. It looks like times have changed for the better; and, at least regarding Sky, the 'news' side is unescapably lined to the sporting side right now. Brailsford is stuck in the past once again it seems. And he is the only person coming out of this badly; throwing his toys out of the pram when he can't control the message.

Cyclingnews might think they are changing things, the reality is different. They now no longer have access to the team perhaps about to win the sports biggest event of the year and perhaps the sports next biggest anti-doping story (or not). As I said, Ryan needs to set up his stall as a news journalist and be known for this, or return to being sports reporter. He can't be both, it doesn't work like this as he's now discovered.
Well of course people need to take a stand to change things. And they risk sacrificing things by doing so, particularly when bullies like Brailsford will try to make them pay for challenging his authority. Even if what they are doing is clearly in the public interest. It's good to see that cyclingnews and Ryan have the courage to stand up to him - just like Kimmage and Walsh stood up to Armstrong and Bruyneel when they used the same tactics to try to control the message.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
You really don't get how the news media and sports media work do you?
I think you don't understand that times are changing. Your view of the situation is stuck in the past. Some sports journalists now are prepared to forego some access and controlled PR statements, in order to present the full picture to their readers. They are showing that the results and the alleged corruption and cheating are inextricably linked.

Obviously this terrifies the likes of Brailsford, who rely on the separation of the 'news' and 'sport' spheres in order to peddle the 'marginal gains' nonsense on the one hand, and the 'we don't keep medical records' on the other hand. Hence the aggressive outburst.
 
Part of Brailsford's job is to talk to the media whether he likes it or not. Maybe he thinks he can choose not to speak to CN. Maybe CN will decide not to print anything Sky-related - including the positive-spin stories. Who needs who most ? I've no idea. But this is a sponsor-driven sport. How is this helping the brand ? Wouldn't Sky be better off having their cycling team run by someone who can communicate with CN ? Let's not forget that all these issues are down to his poor management. A competent manager would have had his story straight from day 1 rather than being caught in a succession of lies
 
Put it this way. Why do you think FA opted to switch it's contract for UK coverage rights from BBC to ITV? It was because BBC became too critical of the England Football team's performances and so its rights were removed by FA. It's the same with Sky. You can spit in the soup, but you don't get to keep the same privileges. What i'm saying is, what Brailsford is doing is simply how the game is played by everyone. FA, F1, Sky etc etc. You are free to challenge and spit in the soup, but to expect the same access and privileges and access to the team to continue like Cyclingnews expect is simply naive.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
You really don't get how the news media and sports media work do you?
I think you don't understand that times are changing. Your view of the situation is stuck in the past. Some sports journalists now are prepared to forego some access and controlled PR statements, in order to present the full picture to their readers. They are showing that the results and the alleged corruption and cheating are inextricably linked.

Obviously this terrifies the likes of Brailsford, who rely on the separation of the 'news' and 'sport' spheres in order to peddle the 'marginal gains' nonsense on the one hand, and the 'we don't keep medical records' on the other hand. Hence the aggressive outburst.

This is great, but that is not changing how the media relationships work is it. Cyclingnews can do a Kimmaage on Sky if they want to, brilliant, good luck to them. Where they've misjudged the situation, is to also expect the same access to the team afterwards. As I keep saying, lay out your stall and see what you have Cyclingnews Ryan.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
You really don't get how the news media and sports media work do you?
I think you don't understand that times are changing. Your view of the situation is stuck in the past. Some sports journalists now are prepared to forego some access and controlled PR statements, in order to present the full picture to their readers. They are showing that the results and the alleged corruption and cheating are inextricably linked.

Obviously this terrifies the likes of Brailsford, who rely on the separation of the 'news' and 'sport' spheres in order to peddle the 'marginal gains' nonsense on the one hand, and the 'we don't keep medical records' on the other hand. Hence the aggressive outburst.

This is great, but that is not changing how the media relationships work is it. Cyclingnews can do a Kimmaage on Sky if they want to, brilliant, good luck to them. Where they've misjudged the situation, is to also expect the same access to the team afterwards. As I keep saying, lay out your stall and see what you have Cyclingnews Ryan.
I don't think they have mis-judged the situation; I think they are given the public what they are asking for - the ful picture. I think it is Brailsford who has badly misjudged this situation. By making such a public outburst he has made himself look very sensitive to any kind of criticism and has re-inforced the view that he is acting like Armstrong/Bruyneel. Considering how little credibility he has, going on the offensive is not a bright idea. He should have just quietly accepted the criticism and not drawn attention to it. If he felt it necessary, then take his revenge later in a more subtle way. The way he has handled it though has made him look pretty bad - especially because other journalists are way more likely to rally around their colleagues than around a guy who looks on his last legs at Sky.
 
End of the day Ryan had access to Team Sky and Brailsford to ask whatever questions he wanted before publishing, but chose to not and publish instead on eve of Tour. You have to ask yourself, why with this access, did Ryan choose not to run any of it past Brailsford for his comment? Why not a single question from Ryan to Brailsford about anything? That is not changing journalism for the good, that's simply no different than someone anonymous in the clinic posting opinions. If that is the future of sports journalism, it seems pretty thin on anyone doing any real investigation and journalism to me?
 
Re:

samhocking said:
Put it this way. Why do you think FA opted to switch it's contract for UK coverage rights from BBC to ITV? It was because BBC became too critical of the England Football team's performances and so its rights were removed by FA.

Nonsense - ITV offered more money, simple as that. The BBC pundits were always soft on the national team, being mostly recent ex-players reluctant to criticise their friends. Roy Keane on ITV is more critical than anyone on BBC ever was.
 
samhocking said:
Sounds more like Brailsford is pissed at Ryan, because he had access to Team Sky to write his Strong & Stable piece, but decided not to and publish as an opinion piece rather than an investigative piece of journalism. There's clearly more to this than being compared to Bruyneel when at Astana.

You keep believing in miracles SamHocking, thataboy.

And on football rights, you're talking absolute nonsense - as ever it was about $$$ (£125 million in this case): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6509141.stm

Fact is the Sky is falling on the 'Fraud's head, and the fanboys are looking increasingly silly with their tra-la-la-la-la.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
End of the day Ryan had access to Team Sky and Brailsford to ask whatever questions he wanted before publishing, but chose to not and publish instead on eve of Tour. You have to ask yourself, why with this access, did Ryan choose not to run any of it past Brailsford for his comment?

Agreed.

It is weird to have an anglophone journalist not run their entire article past their editor - Dave Brailsford, to ensure all the latest marginal gains angles and propaganda are well presented.
 
May 26, 2009
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therhodeo said:
It's like deja vu in here. Shame for Brailsford and Sky that they don't have the cancer angle to leverage.

But they have the first case of Badzilla and Asthma, so silver lining and all.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
You really don't get how the news media and sports media work do you?
I think you don't understand that times are changing. Your view of the situation is stuck in the past. Some sports journalists now are prepared to forego some access and controlled PR statements, in order to present the full picture to their readers. They are showing that the results and the alleged corruption and cheating are inextricably linked.

Obviously this terrifies the likes of Brailsford, who rely on the separation of the 'news' and 'sport' spheres in order to peddle the 'marginal gains' nonsense on the one hand, and the 'we don't keep medical records' on the other hand. Hence the aggressive outburst.

This is great, but that is not changing how the media relationships work is it. Cyclingnews can do a Kimmaage on Sky if they want to, brilliant, good luck to them. Where they've misjudged the situation, is to also expect the same access to the team afterwards. As I keep saying, lay out your stall and see what you have Cyclingnews Ryan.
Brailsford basically confirmed last week that Dan Benson was blackballed in his response to him so in fairness it was likely Ryan would have his access withdrawn anyway. Remember, it was Benson who Brailsford literally ran away from when he asked about the investigation into Leinders which was promised at the Tour in 2012 but had seemingly vanished into thin air come the Worlds that year.

The thing is, in Ryan's response about comparing Brailsford to Bruyneel, he refers only to his treatment of the press, ostracizing and excluding those who question him and surrounding himself with those who are malleable and those he knows are on his side. In that, there is nothing libelous at all. It was Brailsford - likely because of the previous article from Ryan and its connotations - that brought up the idea that this was directly accusing him of running a doping program. Not everything Johan Bruyneel said and did is connected to the fact he ran a doping regime. And considering during 2010-11 Sky themselves made many wilful comparisons to USPS and Discovery in discussion of their professionalism and approach, they have to be fully aware that now, people are going to take those comparisons - that way back when, they invited not just implicitly in their behaviour, but explicitly - and run with them all the way to the less savoury side of that team. And while, sure, you can argue that it is inevitable that those who write favourably, producing generic sports stories are going to get better access than those who probe into closets for skeletons, the fact remains that no team manager in the intervening period between Bruyneel and Brailsford has been quite so blatant about it. Hell, at least Johan held the press conferences in the first place rather than a select soundbite show directed solely to the loyalists, like the fading dictator trying to persuade the country he's still in control by broadcasting a rally to his strongest supporters while the country crumbles around him. Only, if we look at racing only, Brailsford really is still in control. He's still winning the Tour de France. But he's lost many of the hearts and minds that he once had in his hand. It's slowly dawning on him, it seems, that his PR is becoming toxic, otherwise why would he be ducking the press all year? The team is his baby, is associated primarily with him, but for Team Sky to survive with what remains of its reputation intact, he can't palm the questions off with management speak and appease the wolves by sacrificing a Mick Rogers or a Geert Leinders this time.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
This is the real world DFA123, it doesn't make sense all of the time. The separation of Sports & News Journalist is as old as media itself. No point saying it's absurd, everyone already knows this.

Often times sports becomes news and who better to report on the intricacies of that particular sport than someone that has been reporting on it extensively. You get a strictly newsman reporting on a front page sports story and their depth of knowledge of the sport, it's characters, its history is limited. Sure they can Google, Bing, Yahoo, Wiki till their hearts content but they may have a problem piecing the stories together into a coherent and detailed report. You are delusional if you truly think there is a seperation between a good sports story and one that you consider "news". A story is a story. Compelling in its telling based on the drama of its content and characters.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
DFA123 said:
samhocking said:
This is the real world DFA123, it doesn't make sense all of the time. The separation of Sports & News Journalist is as old as media itself. No point saying it's absurd, everyone already knows this.
Well, clearly it's not separated any more. Because several journalists are reporting on both the sports and the corruption. It looks like times have changed for the better; and, at least regarding Sky, the 'news' side is unescapably lined to the sporting side right now. Brailsford is stuck in the past once again it seems. And he is the only person coming out of this badly; throwing his toys out of the pram when he can't control the message.

Cyclingnews might think they are changing things, the reality is different. They now no longer have access to the team perhaps about to win the sports biggest event of the year and perhaps the sports next biggest anti-doping story (or not). As I said, Ryan needs to set up his stall as a news journalist and be known for this, or return to being a sports reporter. He can't be both, it doesn't work like this as he's now discovered.

It would if Brailsford had a spine. If Ryan were strictly a "news" reporter do you honestly think that distinction would've stopped Brailsford from banning him? The goal here is to control the narrative and continue the fleecing of the sport and its fans (the one's too blinded to see thru the fog of b.s. being shoveled).
 
Jan 29, 2017
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Johnny Optional said:
I like what cycling news has done here. Continue to write what you think, the reaction from sky reminds me of a certain American

Certain American was just saying on his podcast today that he saw this story play out before and it does not have a good ending. Also said Brailsford should put down his shovel and stop digging.