Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[yaco]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

- People are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle - 'The whistleblower' - One sincerely hopes the whistleblower knows exactly the name of the substance and whether it is on the banned list - If so the whistleblower makes an admission to UKAD - This is done and then the case is done and dusted - One has to question why the whistleblower has gone to the media, instead of the relevant doping authority - Or maybe the doping authority turned a blind eye - But ultimately it's in the hands of the whistleblower

I'm not sure the whistleblower is important...with such a tangled web of deceit you will always come unstuck...with LA it was not giving Landis a job, with SKY this may be it....it now doesn't even matter if there was a jiffy bag or not...the response is what will get you...same as Watergate...forget the crime...its the response to the crime that will do for you....

of course the reason that the lesson is never learned is that plenty who front it out get away with it...Sir Dave hoping Seb and Paula's luck rubs off on him

One can only assume the whistle-blower knew the contents of the package and it may have been suspicious.

Logically the whistle-blower would have contacted UKAD sometime in the past - So we wait for UKAD.

You are right about Landis, though at the same time no team would offer him a job - I doubt Landis' motives and sincerity in the case, seeing he is theoretically up for $30m, if the US Govt is successful in their case against Armtrong

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

- People are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle - 'The whistleblower' - One sincerely hopes the whistleblower knows exactly the name of the substance and whether it is on the banned list - If so the whistleblower makes an admission to UKAD - This is done and then the case is done and dusted - One has to question why the whistleblower has gone to the media, instead of the relevant doping authority - Or maybe the doping authority turned a blind eye - But ultimately it's in the hands of the whistleblower

I'm not sure the whistleblower is important...with such a tangled web of deceit you will always come unstuck...with LA it was not giving Landis a job, with SKY this may be it....it now doesn't even matter if there was a jiffy bag or not...the response is what will get you...same as Watergate...forget the crime...its the response to the crime that will do for you....

of course the reason that the lesson is never learned is that plenty who front it out get away with it...Sir Dave hoping Seb and Paula's luck rubs off on him

One can only assume the whistle-blower knew the contents of the package and it may have been suspicious.

Logically the whistle-blower would have contacted UKAD sometime in the past - So we wait for UKAD.

You are right about Landis, though at the same time no team would offer him a job - I doubt Landis' motives and sincerity in the case, seeing he is theoretically up for $30m, if the US Govt is successful in their case against Armtrong

trueish....however, I reckon I could choose one night in the early 70s at random and claim that the Stones were using coke....and chances are they were If you know the sort of program Wiggins would be on and the rough parameters of their logistics (i.e. was Cope a 'motoman') then you could make an educated guess...run it up the flagpole and see what happened.....

and yes regarding Landis but even if he were a cat amongst the pigeons he has done more for fighting doping at the top level than any agency (tasked with it) had until that point...

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

- People are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle - 'The whistleblower' - One sincerely hopes the whistleblower knows exactly the name of the substance and whether it is on the banned list - If so the whistleblower makes an admission to UKAD - This is done and then the case is done and dusted - One has to question why the whistleblower has gone to the media, instead of the relevant doping authority - Or maybe the doping authority turned a blind eye - But ultimately it's in the hands of the whistleblower

I'm not sure the whistleblower is important...with such a tangled web of deceit you will always come unstuck...with LA it was not giving Landis a job, with SKY this may be it....it now doesn't even matter if there was a jiffy bag or not...the response is what will get you...same as Watergate...forget the crime...its the response to the crime that will do for you....

of course the reason that the lesson is never learned is that plenty who front it out get away with it...Sir Dave hoping Seb and Paula's luck rubs off on him

One can only assume the whistle-blower knew the contents of the package and it may have been suspicious.

Logically the whistle-blower would have contacted UKAD sometime in the past - So we wait for UKAD.

You are right about Landis, though at the same time no team would offer him a job - I doubt Landis' motives and sincerity in the case, seeing he is theoretically up for $30m, if the US Govt is successful in their case against Armtrong

trueish....however, I reckon I could choose one night in the early 70s at random and claim that the Stones were using coke....and chances are they were If you know the sort of program Wiggins would be on and the rough parameters of their logistics (i.e. was Cope a 'motoman') then you could make an educated guess...run it up the flagpole and see what happened.....

and yes regarding Landis but even if he were a cat amongst the pigeons he has done more for fighting doping at the top level than any agency (tasked with it) had until that point...

Back to your first paragraph - There was a recent case in Australian Rules footy with a player - Player x has a party night and then texts the ex gf about the events - The next day player rocks up to training but is worried about un-announced tests from ASADA - Note that two players earlier that year got positives to clenbuteral which was cut into cocaine - Anyway the players club get him to stay with the welfare manager for 2 days, in case there would be a random drug test - About 2 months later the now ex gf writes an email to the players club who ignore the emails - A few months later the ex girlfriend contacts Australia's Doping Control with the same email - Anyway ASADA ask the player's employer the Australian Football League as it's not a clear-cut anti-doping breach under the WADA Code - Then 16 months after the event the story is leaked to the media - You then have the AFL and ASADA trying to determine a punishment as the media is going crazy - Finally the AFL with the approval of ASADA decide to give player X a 6 month penalty and 2 officials a 12 month penalty - The moral of the story for Sky is you have to watch scorned ex's.

 

[mike75]

Has this been posted yet? Good for a laugh, and brings up good points as well!

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2016/12/20/bone-idling-wanker/

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Has this been posted yet? Good for a laugh, and brings up good points as well!

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2016/12/20/bone-idling-wanker/

Outstanding. Should be pinned.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Has this been posted yet? Good for a laugh, and brings up good points as well!

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2016/12/20/bone-idling-wanker/

Outstanding. Should be pinned.

agree.

Hey whats in the Jiffy bag BRAH's?

Some serious denial going on up in this piece. Maybe one day to take head out of sand.

 

[doperhopper]

waiting for comment from self appointed ambassador of clean cycling - after Vroom expressed his concerns about Wiggo, maybe it's time to bite the hand that feeds him

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Let's say I'm running a big cycling team and I know damn well something illegal is going one, as that's a big part of the true business plan buried behind the "clean as can be"-PR business plan. What don't I want to know? Specifics. I need my plausible deniability specifically for incident like this one.

Do you know what was in the bag? I do not, but I'll ask my doctors.

And, what did you find out? Well, there was some innocent Fluimucil in the bag.

Something else? To the best of my knowledge, nothing else was in the bag.

I'm pretty sure Brailsford honestly doesn't know what was in the bag, factually speaking. I'm also sure he could probably make an educated guess, but if I were him, then I would never let myself be informed of specific cases like this one. Plausible deniability, you know. He's better off not knowing specifics and, in his position, he doesn't have to.

Brailsford has to know everything in order to control everything. He knows what was in the bag.

DB is long practiced at lying, he did it when Millar was arrested in France.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

 

[Benotti69]

It would appear the end is nigh for Brailsford;

Ken Matheson ‏@kenem 5 hours ago
@Scienceofsport Well I'm talking now - and sod the gagging clause!

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 5 hours ago
@kenem Yes, good for you! Be on the right side of history. Who are you talking to, and saying what?


Ken Matheson @kenem
@Scienceofsport Long statement going back 18yrs re. DB's lies, bullying, harassment, wrongful dismissal of staff, financial misconduct etc..

DB has history and not a pleasant one it appears!

 

[Bianchi928]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

almost certainly a whistleblower. Lawton always one step ahead of DB. What makes it more damning is that nobody would have blown the whistle on a decongestant or a jiffy bag with unknown contents 5 years ago ... surely we should be expecting more about the true contents soon from whoever is leaking this.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

almost certainly a whistleblower. Lawton always one step ahead of DB. What makes it more damning is that nobody would have blown the whistle on a decongestant or a jiffy bag with unknown contents 5 years ago ... surely we should be expecting more about the true contents soon from whoever is leaking this.

It would appear quite a few people have been treated badly by DB/Brit Cycling and they are now coming forward to the UKSport Independent review

Alan Moore @DangerKidsBooks
@kenem Ken, doping is the icing, underneath is real sub-human behaviour, bullying, sex abuse, blacklisting etc. Get one, more,will fall.

Not pretty.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

almost certainly a whistleblower. Lawton always one step ahead of DB. What makes it more damning is that nobody would have blown the whistle on a decongestant or a jiffy bag with unknown contents 5 years ago ... surely we should be expecting more about the true contents soon from whoever is leaking this.

Lawton is giving SDB enough time and rope to hang himself. I would imagine the Daily Mail will wait for the UKAD report before revealing more.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Lawton is giving SDB enough time and rope to hang himself. I would imagine the Daily Mail will wait for the UKAD report before revealing more.

Yep. I think you're right. I think Matt L. might be teeing up the coup de grace.

 

[mike75]

Wow this is crazy stuff I'm reading. Johan the Saint if we are comparing...

 

[TeflonDub]

Interesting thread here. Suggestion that British Cycling leak about Simon Yates ADRV might be related to the close ties Brailsford maintains at BC?

https://twitter.com/kenem/status/811648901778325504

 

[sniper]

Re:

Interesting thread here. Suggestion that British Cycling leak about Simon Yates ADRV might be related to the close ties Brailsford maintains at BC?

https://twitter.com/kenem/status/811648901778325504

I saw that. But I'm not quite following the politics behind it. Who would have leaked the SY positive and why exactly?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Interesting thread here. Suggestion that British Cycling leak about Simon Yates ADRV might be related to the close ties Brailsford maintains at BC?

https://twitter.com/kenem/status/811648901778325504

I saw that. But I'm not quite following the politics behind it. Who would have leaked the SY positive and why exactly?

It builds a narrative they can use. Doctors forget things, they treat as needed, we got our TUEs processed etc.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

almost certainly a whistleblower. Lawton always one step ahead of DB. What makes it more damning is that nobody would have blown the whistle on a decongestant or a jiffy bag with unknown contents 5 years ago ... surely we should be expecting more about the true contents soon from whoever is leaking this.

Agree 100% with this.

What is kind of funny is that his source may never need to reveal his/herself as the DB et all are doing such a catastrophic job themselves.

The very fact that there is a whistleblower who knows all this totally contradicts the evidence DB gave to the select committee.

In all the furore surrounding his questioning this fact has been massively overlooked.

I shall elaborate:

Him and Sutton painted a picture of a highly 'departmentalised' team, that the medics at sky work as a separate unit, separate from management/performance but are well versed in the team ethos & ethics so no one in senior management of the team knew what was in the package for their star rider without asking the medics. Confidentiality, departments, certain people only have knowledge, doctor patient confidentiality etc yada yada yada.

So set against this we a have staff member at either BC or Sky who knew about:

(a) the existence of the package; and (yet to be confirmed)
(b) what was in the package

While senior management were totally oblivious because is wasn't their department? Come on what a load of BS

What we are also seeing is the fallacy of Sky being highly "departmentalised" being shown to be something quite different in reality (being managed like a youth club). Something Benson and Whittle mentioned in their CN podcast.

 

[sniper]

Good point. The very fact that there was a leak contradicts their story.
Did the select committee even ask DB and SS who they think the mole is?
That said, you guys should really stop talking about 'the whistleblowrr'. The jiffybag story was a leak. Not an act of whistleblowing.

The other thing about DB people keep forgetting is that he has a history as an amateamateur cyclist in France. Was he quizzed on that? Why do they let him get away with pretending he stepped into the BC job as a freshman.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

yaco, you are missing the most important and obvious information in the puzzle: there is no whistleblower.

So if there is no whistle-blower what are the origins of the story. Suddenly 'out of the blue' a story appears about a 'jiffy bag' being transported to Wiggins.

How did the journalist receive the information ?

Is it a made up story ?

It's not rocket science - Someone has given the media information - Of course the veracity of the information is open to debate.

Froome?

If Froome is the whistleblower he is playing an extremely dangerous game. Remember he looked better than Wiggins at 2012 and if Wiggins was to be caught doping then that dirt will fly onto Froome, same team etc

I doubt is was Froome.

almost certainly a whistleblower. Lawton always one step ahead of DB. What makes it more damning is that nobody would have blown the whistle on a decongestant or a jiffy bag with unknown contents 5 years ago ... surely we should be expecting more about the true contents soon from whoever is leaking this.

You would hope so - Thought getting into print will be a tricky legal manouevre - And it will end up being a he said,she said sceanrio, unless there is a smoking gun.

The whistle-blower could be one of 40 or 50 people - Could also be links with BA - Could even be the whistle-blower has 2nd or 3rd hand information.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Interesting thread here. Suggestion that British Cycling leak about Simon Yates ADRV might be related to the close ties Brailsford maintains at BC?

https://twitter.com/kenem/status/811648901778325504

Aha ! I posted at the time that S.Yates positive was leaked by BC, but it seemed to go through to the keeper - There was little interest in discussing this at the time.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Good point. The very fact that there was a leak contradicts their story.
Did the select committee even ask DB and SS who they think the mole is?
That said, you guys should really stop talking about 'the whistleblowrr'. The jiffybag story was a leak. Not an act of whistleblowing.

The other thing about DB people keep forgetting is that he has a history as an amateamateur cyclist in France. Was he quizzed on that? Why do they let him get away with pretending he stepped into the BC job as a freshman.

Yesterday, you stated I was misunderstanding the situation by posting about a whistle-blower - Yet 24 hrs later you've changed your mind.

It's a waste of time for the Select Committee to ask Sky - Who do you think is the whistle-blower - First this breed of people need to be 100% protected and it does nothing to elicit information from Team Sky - There are more important lines of questioning which were followed by the Select Committee.