Dave Millar - anti doping hero

[thehog]

Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

The same David Millar who used HGH in his return to cycling, I think it might be.

The same David Millae who denied doping & only confessed after being arrested, I think it might be.

The same David Millar who used influence on the WADA board to state a Sky are clean without really knowing, I think it might be.

The same David Millar with a conflict of interest as his sister works at Sky, I think it might be.

The same David Millar who had to be dropped from the Tour squad at Garmin because he spent more time selling shoes, making movies than training, I think it might be.

 

[bobbins]

Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

Stood up to Armstrong??? I don't think so. You mean tossed his salad as long as he could and then turned on him when he could make a quick buck out of him. He's as dirty as the next pro bike rider but more full of ** and weasel words.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

That you Fran?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

this is called perception management.

behaviour confected and choreographed to demonstrate an unctuous regret. A faux contrition and self-reproach faked.

If anything, Vino and Valverde's behaviour and words are true, there are not massaged and filtered thru this prism of perception management.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

That you Fran?

lol

where is Sir Dave? Does Fran become a Dame if she is married to Sir Dave?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Stood up to Armstrong??? I don't think so. You mean tossed his salad as long as he could and then turned on him when he could make a quick buck out of him. He's as dirty as the next pro bike rider but more full of *** and weasel words.

like Wiggins... what was Wiggins words on Lance? "I luv him". "He has done so much for cycling"...

scoundrels

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The same David Millar with a conflict of interest as his sister works at Sky, I think it might be.

The same sister who is head of winning behaviours? I think it might be.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

this is called perception management.

behaviour confected and choreographed to demonstrate an unctuous regret. A faux contrition and self-reproach faked.

If anything, Vino and Valverde's behaviour and words are true, there are not massaged and filtered thru this prism of perception management.

Very true, Vino and Valverde are the good guys. Why won't these people just leave them alone and let them get on with making a living.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong, the same David Miller who admits his mistakes and is not afraid to share with us his past experience helping us understand the messed up world of pro cycling. Is this the same David Miller to whom antidoping is so important that after his most important victory post ban pledge his innocence and delivered a powerful message, instead of the likes of valverde or vino who just shrug off the past. Yes what a truly horrible person.

this is called perception management.

behaviour confected and choreographed to demonstrate an unctuous regret. A faux contrition and self-reproach faked.

If anything, Vino and Valverde's behaviour and words are true, there are not massaged and filtered thru this prism of perception management.

Very true, Vino and Valverde are the good guys. Why won't these people just leave them alone and let them get on with making a living.

links to whoever in the clinic said Vino or Piti were good guys or you are trolling!

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Very true, Vino and Valverde are the good guys. Why won't these people just leave them alone and let them get on with making a living.

I was not commenting on whether Alexander or Alejandro were either good guys, bad guys, in between guys, intersex guys, or goys.

I was merely commenting that in a comparison to Millar, p'raps they are telling the truth now, and p'raps Millar is still constructing a fantastical narrative.

Millar's fable may be easier for you to believe, because it meshes and reconciles with your worldview, and is a happy, feel-goody[sic] type of comfort zone.

But pr'aps, it is a fable, and it is not the truth.

the caveat. Vino and Valverde had to lie and deceive, like the entire peloton had to lie and deceive to maintain their doping and hold their riding contracts, does this make them bad people? How should they behave now? Should they behave like Millar and display a remorse, even if the remorse is confected?

All of these acts and behaviour and emotions a very human. Read some of HelmutRoole's recent posts.

As much as I lambast Millar, I do not know him, and have no real appreciation of his character and the type of person he is, tho I must admit, this thread is pretty fun to throw a few flash-bang grenades into the locked room of this OP and see the craziness prevail. It is quite fun, very fun. But I don't know Millar, I have no reason or understanding of the individual or personal criticism of him. It is merely the public persona that is quite absurd, and I will be the willing partner in the pas de deux.

so that was my mea culpa

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong

Is "no lying" one of the rules here on CN forum?

Nevermind, just looked and saw that "no trolling" is one of the rules, so result should be the same.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

I don't know this dude vayerism's sources - or whether he has privileged information that gives weight to his view - but while some would agree with his opinion it's pretty obvious many don't. Within the sport - the peloton, the staff, the wider industry - Millar has his fans. Looking at the way both of his books have been received outside the peloton, he clearly has a lot of fans, both in the UK and international media (there's been hardly any negative comment on his books let alone of him) and among cycling fans (who buy them and praise them). And that they turn up to hear him promote these books, well that hardly supports the claim that he's never wanted where he turns up, now does it?

I may not be among his fans but that does not mean I can pretend they don't exist. I disagree with them but won't deny them.

Millar's fans are more of the same herpes. Contagious apparently.

And there is no cure. Which makes the likes of Millar and JV a lot more dangerous than people like Ricco and Di Luca.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

Very true, Vino and Valverde are the good guys. Why won't these people just leave them alone and let them get on with making a living.

I was not commenting on whether Alexander or Alejandro were either good guys, bad guys, in between guys, intersex guys, or goys.

I was merely commenting that in a comparison to Millar, p'raps they are telling the truth now, and p'raps Millar is still constructing a fantastical narrative.

Millar's fable may be easier for you to believe, because it meshes and reconciles with your worldview, and is a happy, feel-goody[sic] type of comfort zone.

But pr'aps, it is a fable, and it is not the truth.

the caveat. Vino and Valverde had to lie and deceive, like the entire peloton had to lie and deceive to maintain their doping and hold their riding contracts, does this make them bad people? How should they behave now? Should they behave like Millar and display a remorse, even if the remorse is confected?

All of these acts and behaviour and emotions a very human. Read some of HelmutRoole's recent posts.

As much as I lambast Millar, I do not know him, and have no real appreciation of his character and the type of person he is, tho I must admit, this thread is pretty fun to throw a few flash-bang grenades into the locked room of this OP and see the craziness prevail. It is quite fun, very fun. But I don't know Millar, I have no reason or understanding of the individual or personal criticism of him. It is merely the public persona that is quite absurd, an I will willing be the partner in the pas de deux.

so that was my mea culpa

I've certainly never said a word in defence of Millar on here so I am not sure why you feel that I believe in all of his lies, I've said in here a few times that I cannot stand the guy. Valverde and Vino are certainly no different than anybody else (as riders at least), they were just the 'unlucky' ones who happened to be found out. That said, they have both made millions out of doping and enjoyed successes which Millar could only dream of so to put them above criticism is ridiculous.

Millar's tedious PR nonsense is easy to ignore unless you actively seek it out. So what if he has another book out, just don't buy the thing. You certainly couldn't say the same about Vino's activities in retirement which are doing far more harm to the sport than anything Millar has ever done or ever will do.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I've certainly never said a word in defence of Millar on here so I am not sure why you feel that I believe in all of his lies, I've said in here a few times that I cannot stand the guy. Valverde and Vino are certainly no different than anybody else (as riders at least), they were just the 'unlucky' ones who happened to be found out. That said, they have both made millions out of doping and enjoyed successes which Millar could only dream of so to put them above criticism is ridiculous.

Millar's tedious PR nonsense is easy to ignore unless you actively seek it out. So what if he has another book out, just don't buy the thing. You certainly couldn't say the same about Vino's activities in retirement which are doing far more harm to the sport than anything Millar has ever done or ever will do.

I just come for the entertainment, for the lols.

I am not putting Valverde and Vinokourov above criticism. They are just doing what they have always done and by the rules the peloton set down before they were even competing as cyclists.

We do not appreciate the Insider Rules versus the Outsider Rules.

Millar is one who appreciates both, so does Vaughters, because they straddle aside both Insider and Outsider rule at once. This is quite the balancing act.

 

[mrhender]

@Bernie

But people do buy his books.

And Millar is being elevated by the majority of media and I think even WADA for his "accomplishments" and "character".

So who is causing more harm?

The one that displays the problems in the sport (Vino) for all to see?

Or the one selling books and broadly holding an honorary postion based on a narrative that maybe rightly could be percieved as pure salesmanship.

I think it depends who's shoes you walk in, and from what kind of angle you choose to analyze it.

I think both are problematic, each in their own way.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

And there is no cure. Which makes the likes of Millar and JV a lot more dangerous than people like Ricco and Di Luca.

sorry, I dont think anyone is more dangerous than Ricco, Di Luca, Armstrong, and Landis. Because they have nothing to gain from speaking the truth, and they unleash full barreled truth telling.


*well, one could argue, that Landis and Armstrong are wrestling for a public relation battle and win against themselves. So they may have something to win, qui tam and all. Ricco and Di Luca, they have nothing really to win by speaking the truth.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

@Bernie

But people do buy his books.

And Millar is being elevated by the majority of media and I think even WADA for his "accomplishments" and "character".

So who is causing more harm? the one that displays the problems in the sport (Vino) for all to see?

Or the one selling books and broadly holding an honorary postion based on a narrative that maybe rightly could be percieved as pure salesmanship.

I think it depends who's shoes you walk in, and from what kind of angle you choose to analyze it.

I think both are problematic, each in their own way.

both are entertaining in their own way also. hence then popularity of the thread, its up there with one of the most popular, with the JV, Armstrong, Froome, Sky threads...

 

[bobbins]

Re: Re:

The same David Millar with a conflict of interest as his sister works at Sky, I think it might be.

The same sister who is head of winning behaviours? I think it might be.

The Fran who's company only got Sky work due to her 'relationship' with Dave B? the same Fran who finds sleeping with the boss a winning behaviour? That family has had some impact on british cycling and not in a positive way.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong

Is "no lying" one of the rules here on CN forum?

Nevermind, just looked and saw that "no trolling" is one of the rules, so result should be the same.

Read his autobiography, even before Armstrong was busted he clear stands up to him and talks about "lances dark side". So in no way shape or form am I lying nor am I trolling. So please stop the false accusations.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong

Is "no lying" one of the rules here on CN forum?

Nevermind, just looked and saw that "no trolling" is one of the rules, so result should be the same.

Read his autobiography, even before Armstrong was busted he clear stands up to him and talks about "lances dark side". So in no way shape or form am I lying nor am I trolling. So please stop the false accusations.

when was his autobiography released?

is it in the fiction or non-fiction aisle of the library or the bookstore, or what classification will I find it under at amazon?

come on, we dont believe these people's tales, they all conspire and interact with deceit on a daily basis, they would not know the truth if it smacked them over the face

 

[blackcat]

Fran may have gotten a promotion at Sky, no longer head of winning behaviours

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

But people do buy his books.

If we can accept this to be true can we then accept that the Tweet which started this is factually inaccurate when it says Millar "is never wanted" wherever he turns up?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

hence then popularity of the thread, its up there with one of the most popular, with the JV, Armstrong, Froome, Sky threads...

521 replies, 55,564 views in four years. Not even top 10 of recently active threads in the Clinic. But hey, don't ever let facts get in the way, just say the first thing that comes into your head and trust that no one will question it, because even if it's wrong, it speaks to a deeper truth and so is itself true.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Is this the same David Miller who stood up to lance Armstrong

Is "no lying" one of the rules here on CN forum?

Nevermind, just looked and saw that "no trolling" is one of the rules, so result should be the same.

Read his autobiography, even before Armstrong was busted he clear stands up to him and talks about "lances dark side". So in no way shape or form am I lying nor am I trolling. So please stop the false accusations.

when was his autobiography released?

is it in the fiction or non-fiction aisle of the library or the bookstore, or what classification will I find it under at amazon?

come on, we dont believe these people's tales, they all conspire and interact with deceit on a daily basis, they would not know the truth if it smacked them over the face

I'm talking about his firs autobiography "racing through the dark" relesed on 16 Jun 2011, well over a year before Armstrong was exposed as who he is Miller was already giving strong hints about what he was, calling out his "darker side". Say what you want about the man to say that about the man at the peak of his powers and who could have harmed Miller greatly took guts and for that alone the man has to be respected. Then on top of that you have all the other things he has done that I listed. He may not be a Saint, he may even not be an anti doping hero, but one thing's for sure he isn't the evil man he is potrayed by the people on this forum sat confurtably behind their computers, without getting out of their comfort zone.

 

[hrotha]

You mean one year before Armstrong was formally suspended. By 2011, lots of stuff about Armstrong had come out. Millar switched horses before some others, but that was hardly going against the grain at that point. Some timid criticism of a vague "darker side", conveniently just before Armstrong was toppled officially, just doesn't cut it.