De Bonis Busted for EPO

[Alexzulle]

They just keep coming...

 

[BroDeal]

Yay!!! Another small fry caught. Too bad he could not fly under the radar long enough to make it to the top where no one dopes.

The timeline for De Bonis makes the passport look like even more of a fraud. It goes like this: On May 7 a sample is taken from De Bonis that ends up being positive. On June 17 the UCI names De Bonis as one of a small group of nobodies fingered by the passport. Yup. It must have been a hugely complex decision for Anne Gripper to analyze De Bonis' blood parameters and include him in the list of riders with passport problems. Maybe the UCI should announce tomorrow that Bosisio has passport problems.

 

[dopingectomy]

They just keep coming...

today's score: UCI 1 - AFLD 0.

 

[cromagnon]

Soo.. these guys getting caught can't afford a transfusion-based programme so they go the cheapskate EPO method?

 

[Martinello]

well, the fact that De Bonis didn't get caught earlier speaks volumes of the testing efficiency. Gerolsteiner grounded him more than a year ago without any positive tests from the UCI.
So everybody knew he was a doper in 2008, yet his tests turned up negative. This situation reminds me of the late 90's where everybody was riding with HCT's of 49,9% but only small fish from second string Italian outfits returned non-negatives.
So once again the testing system catches the poor and the ignorant who cannot afford top notch pharmaceuticals and medical services.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Yay!!! Another small fry caught. Too bad he could not fly under the radar long enough to make it to the top where no one dopes.
The timeline for De Bonis makes the passport look like even more of a fraud. It goes like this: On May 7 a sample is taken from De Bonis that ends up being positive. On June 17 the UCI names De Bonis as one of a small group of nobodies fingered by the passport. Yup. It must have been a hugely complex decision for Anne Gripper to analyze De Bonis' blood parameters and include him in the list of riders with passport problems. Maybe the UCI should announce tomorrow that Bosisio has passport problems.

Yes, the UCI sending a message to CONI, over Valverde, perhaps?

All these dodgy, mostly second rate Italians getting caught at the Giro.
Yet, Pat can state, with confidence that the 2009 Tour was 100% clean.

Stands to reason that riders would cheat at the Giro, but not want to risk winning anything at the race that offers by far the greater reward.

Shows even McBrownenvelope can fool some of the people, all of the time.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Soo.. these guys getting caught can't afford a transfusion-based programme so they go the cheapskate EPO method?

+1

The timeline for De Bonis makes the passport look like even more of a fraud.

The timeline is funny but I don't think the passport is a fraud. They really do need enough data on what is normal before they can start taking action based on the passport. The only way they can get enough data is through passport testing, so it will take time.

 

[BroDeal]

The timeline is funny but I don't think the passport is a fraud. They really do need enough data on what is normal before they can start taking action based on the passport. The only way they can get enough data is through passport testing, so it will take time.

When the UCI released the names of riders with passport problems, people laughed because it was a handful of low level riders and has beens. It was dodgy as hell. Now we find out one of the low level riders had given a hot sample more than a month before the release of names, which makes the names released even more dodgy.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

+1

The timeline is funny but I don't think the passport is a fraud. They really do need enough data on what is normal before they can start taking action based on the passport. The only way they can get enough data is through passport testing, so it will take time.

I dont believe the Bio-Passport is a fraud either - however I dont believe it is being utilised to its fullest capabilities.

There has been plenty of testing - this is what Pat McQuaid said during the Worlds:
Some 13,800 samples from 850 riders were taken this year, the UCI president noted. About 7,500 of them were unannounced out-of-competition controls; this is a dramatic increase from the figure of about 200 taken annually just three years ago.

 

[Anonymous]

or as brad wiggins just put it...

"I have just heard De Bonis from D1cks and Vag1nas Team has gone pos for sleeping with Sarah, what a wh0re, 2 this week, + that other hobbit!"

 

[cromagnon]

or as brad wiggins just put it...

"I have just heard De Bonis from D1cks and Vag1nas Team has gone pos for sleeping with Sarah, what a wh0re, 2 this week, + that other hobbit!"

I can't believe he'd diss Diquigiovanni like that with the riders they have like err... nevermind.

How close are some of these pro continental teams to just being essentially doped Cat1 riders? Also why are they registered in Venezuela? So many questions.

 

[aarnold517]

what i want to know is if the positive came from a few days for the giro all the way back in may, why is the result only coming out now? does it take five months for a test to be resolved? is this only because de bonis is a lower-tier rider so his sample wasn't as high up on the list as say di luca's, whose result was released over a month ago?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Funny coincedance, De Bonis won a mountain stage in Romandie 08 at the same time Dekker mysteriously quitted the race as number 2 in the general classification.

By the way, Wiggins is kind of an *** himself. First half-accusing Contador of doping after the prologue in Paris Nice because it's impossible to believe for him that someone is stronger. And then he himself sets the most unbelievable and suspicious performance of 2009 in the Tour, by being a top climber out of nowhere, and still bad mouthing others. And finally, his disrespectfull behaviour in the ENECO Tour (quitting the final tt after a good split) and the Worlds ITT also don't make him look good.

Not saying Wiggins is doped, before half UK wants me dead, I'm just saying he is a total ***

 

[Anonymous]

Funny coincedance, De Bonis won a mountain stage in Romandie 08 at the same time Dekker mysteriously quitted the race as number 2 in the general classification.

By the way, Wiggins is kind of an *** himself. First half-accusing Contador of doping after the prologue in Paris Nice because it's impossible to believe for him that someone is stronger. And then he himself sets the most unbelievable and suspicious performance of 2009 in the Tour, by being a top climber out of nowhere, and still bad mouthing others. And finally, his disrespectfull behaviour in the ENECO Tour (quitting the final tt after a good split) and the Worlds ITT also don't make him look good.

Not saying Wiggins is doped, before half UK wants me dead, I'm just saying he is a total ***

ok.. im not going to turn this into a wiggins thread, you are clearly more bitter than a fermented lemon, but... suspicious performance of the tour, i think his weight loss has been well documented, the fact he always showed the potential but this was his first full season racing purely on the road and not focusing on track, the worlds ITT he had a mechanical and then spoke his mind, and hes got a pointa bout contador (not that he must be doped cos he beat brad, but he must be doped because of his extremely dubious history)... So now he pops up and critises a doper, what do you want him to do, say nothing...

talk about damned if you do, damned if you dont...

You have become very bitter and cynical since your hero was outed..

i actually though brads quote was funny, and very well thought out.... wish i had come up with it...

anyway.. back to de bonis...

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

I dont believe the Bio-Passport is a fraud either - however I dont believe it is being utilised to its fullest capabilities. There has been plenty of testing - this is what Pat McQuaid said during the Worlds: Some 13,800 samples from 850 riders were taken this year, the UCI president noted. About 7,500 of them were unannounced out-of-competition controls; this is a dramatic increase from the figure of about 200 taken annually just three years ago.

I agree that the past couple of years has given them the raw data they need for a detailed understanding of what is and isn't normal. I should have said testing and analysis above. They still need time to crunch the numbers and refine their statistical models on the basis of the results, before they can start trying to sanction riders for unusual but not really extreme results. Somehow they will need to untangle the dirty numbers from the clean ones too. So, I'm waiting a bit longer before I decide the bio-passport will only ever be good for keeping riders within set parameters.

When the UCI released the names of riders with passport problems, people laughed because it was a handful of low level riders and has beens. It was dodgy as hell. Now we find out one of the low level riders had given a hot sample more than a month before the release of names, which makes the names released even more dodgy.

Fair point but EPO/Cera is probably easier than autologous transfusion to detect in the blood profile (because the retics usually drop more). Also altitude effects sometimes look quite a bit like autologous transfusion (apart from a short time window when the retics come up), so even with the bio passport autologous is difficult to detect. That's why I think cromagon is right and it's only little guys like De Bonis on the budget programs that get busted, which is pretty unjust. Ashenden has talked about combining altitude info from the whereabouts system with the blood data. I'm hoping that once that happens, the passport will be able to detect autologous doping with enough certainty for sanctions....and the system will be a bit fairer for the little guys.

 

[rata de sentina]

I think that the UCI is very wary of launching action against anyone on the basis of biopassport alone because they're afraid of getting caned in the inevitable CAS appeal. At the moment the strategy seems to be to use the biopassport to flag suspicious riders and then test the hell out of them. It is actually a good way for shoring up evidence that says these biopassport values/patterns are indicative of doping since X number of riders positive for a known substance show this pattern. That way when you have a similar pattern but no known substance you've got a good case.

I understand people are a little frustrated with the biopassport process but it will take time. A setback in the form of a failed biopassport case in CAS where the underlying science is not sufficiently solid would be a massive disaster. A precedent setting case like that would be a terrible setback. The biopassport is entering new territory and it is worth being cautious in the short term. Having said that, I think that biopassport data is contributing at the moment, it is just not being used on its' own.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think that the UCI is very wary of launching action against anyone on the basis of biopassport alone because they're afraid of getting caned in the inevitable CAS appeal. At the moment the strategy seems to be to use the biopassport to flag suspicious riders and then test the hell out of them. ...

Correct, but with this method they only can get to the lower tier riders.

 

[Ripper]

or as brad wiggins just put it...

"I have just heard De Bonis from D1cks and Vag1nas Team has gone pos for sleeping with Sarah, what a wh0re, 2 this week, + that other hobbit!"

This is a hilarious quote! This actually makes me like Wiggins a bit!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think that the UCI is very wary of launching action against anyone on the basis of biopassport alone because they're afraid of getting caned in the inevitable CAS appeal. At the moment the strategy seems to be to use the biopassport to flag suspicious riders and then test the hell out of them. It is actually a good way for shoring up evidence that says these biopassport values/patterns are indicative of doping since X number of riders positive for a known substance show this pattern. That way when you have a similar pattern but no known substance you've got a good case.

I understand people are a little frustrated with the biopassport process but it will take time. A setback in the form of a failed biopassport case in CAS where the underlying science is not sufficiently solid would be a massive disaster. A precedent setting case like that would be a terrible setback. The biopassport is entering new territory and it is worth being cautious in the short term. Having said that, I think that biopassport data is contributing at the moment, it is just not being used on its' own.

Another good post - I actually agree with you on all your points. I was quite patient when it was being setup as this was unchartered territory and I am impressed with how the logistics behind the system were operated.

What I find most frustrating and worrying now is that no proceeding have been brought against the 5 original riders since they were suspended in June.
With two of those retired and the other 3 now implicated in separate cases the chances of a case being proven against them on the sole evidence of the Bio-Passport is minimal.

While catching riders through targeted information obtained from the Bio-Passport is welcome - the purpose of the Bio-Passport was to sanction those who were using undetectable substances or methods, with the current situation that doping loop-hole is still open.

 

[craig1985]

or as brad wiggins just put it...

"I have just heard De Bonis from D1cks and Vag1nas Team has gone pos for sleeping with Sarah, what a wh0re, 2 this week, + that other hobbit!"

And what was Wiggans smoking?

Let's see Gianni Savio defend this one.

 

[auscyclefan94]

And what was Wiggans smoking?

Let's see Gianni Savio defend this one.

Wiggins is a tool. Plain and Simple

 

[craig1985]

Wiggins is a tool. Plain and Simple

More of a WTF reaction.

 

[python]

yes de bonis time line is wacky but no one in this thread mentioned one important missing date - when the giro sample was actually analyzed and declared positive. lately there were several cases of delayed epo positives (di luca, astarloza…). i think this has more to do with 3 factors - i) complexities of epo results management ii) lab workload and iii) limited lab capacity - rather than blood passport ineffectiveness. de bonis was flagged by his passport long ago but his cera rich sample was likely sitting in some lab freezer waiting to be analyzed and pronounced positive. national labs run on their own schedule independent of the transnational uci passport. blood passport is not a fraud. as a tool its effectiveness is often undermined by the messy and uncoordinated administration. i think we are a long way from the bio passport being sufficiently rigorous for a high legal criteria or a determined cas challenge. but as ashenden suggested if the sanction was ‘no start’ when your profile is wacky we’d most likely not see armstrong complete the tour in 2009.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

More of a WTF reaction.

I prefer the subtlety of Marco Pinotti's Twitter about Bosisio.

flashback: national champs TT, I look left and right, but the two spots are empty...

(this was in relation to 2nd Gabriele Bosisio and 3rd Maurizio Biondo - both busted)

 

[issoisso]

Let's see Gianni Savio defend this one.

"I wasn't surprised, but I am disappointed. I'm all for clean cycling. Bla bla bla, *conveniently ignores Ginanni and the rest of the obvious dopers on the team*"