• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team. Thanks!

Dear Jonathon Vaughters...

Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
0
Visit site
Hi JV,

...yeah, I know I could e-mail this to you, but I know you still lurk on here, and I imagine your e-mail is getting pretty full these days.

It's Now or Never.

I think it was pretty awesome of you to walk away from all of the BS when you did. The famous IM conversation sums it all up. You risked banishment from the sport you love, just for walking away, not even threatening to take anyone down. That took some courage.

Posters on here just want to think of you as the guy with the turtle neck going to fancy restaurants. Me, I remember the days of seeing you and a bunch of juniors driving from Colorado to Montana with the 5280 team and thinking, "wow, this is what happens when you pi$$ off Armstrong? Ouch!"

You had a vision to provide an option to those who wanted to compete clean. You probably thought of your old teammates and buddies like Willett, Pate and Candelario, big talents who didn't play the game and never got the place in the sport they probably deserved. Man, that took some guts, and a vow of poverty to boot!

I still ride quite a bit with a couple of your current team riders, one of whom you're personally coaching. They both tell me about the extreme pressure NOT to dope, and you've been really supportive of both of them, despite some thin results. It's great to see you trying to hang on to that original purpose.

When you dismissed part of the IM as hyperbole, I certainly understood; the walls have ears, and the Longarm of those named does run long and deep. You have to be in the system to change it, after all.

I never minded didn't you didn't come totally clean yourself. I mean, you couldn't and still work in the sport, you know, cleaning it up from the inside. I understood your tacit admission well enough.

I was willing to buy into some pretty impressive transformations from a couple of your riders, thinking "hey, maybe the playing field is level". After all, I think it's at least "more level" than it's been in a while. Still, pursuiter to climber does make one wonder a little. But hey, I'm willing to believe in the current guys.

When you took in a guy with a pretty shady rep, and another convicted doper, I was certainly willing to give that some room. After all, maybe they really were just tired of all of the B S themselves and just wanted to stop living like a porcupine! Their results seem to indicate that they weren't quite where they used to be, and in an odd sense I was really happy about that fact.

I'll admit, when you said you'd take Floyd back if he beat the rap, well, that was pretty curious. Even then, I figured maybe you just wanted to give Floyd another option. And when Lance announced his comeback, I knew that while bristling on the inside, you had to play nice. Again, you gotta be in the game to change it. I understand even if it angers a bunch of forum posters. I get it.

When this Landis stuff hit the fan, I knew the timing was pretty lame. Z was going great, and you've got a bike race to try and win. That certainly wasn't the time to talk about all of this stuff. And, the Giro is still going on, they're still racing to be done.

Well, the Giro's now pretty much over for the Argyle Crew. The ToC is in the bag.

Now is the time.

It's time to man-up. Tell what you know. Everything.

I know what you're thinking: "man, I can't do that, I've made it to the inside, and I'm changing things from here! Do you know what it's taken to get this far in?"

Actually, I do. I remember the old days. I was just a lame junior kid racing Cat 4 back then, but I remember, really (I was still taller than Colby, though!).

"with Floyd's admission, I don't need to come forward". Actually, you do. No one can call you a "bitter crackpot" after all. Besides, when the Feds come knocking, the "non-denial denials" really don't play to well.

"I have some guys who made a change, they're doing it the right way now!?". Well, that may be true. But tell it to Carney! Sprinting for power bars instead of tour stages? Remember, you weren't victims. All of you guys had options. Some took them, some didn't, so let's stop pretending, OK?

"But it's really getting better now!". Well, incrementally I'll believe that. However, putting on new siding when the framing is rotting isn't going to fix the long-term problem. I hate analogies, but you know what I'm saying here, and you know I'm right.

"But man, it runs so deep, there's no getting to the root of it". Well JV, now is your one and only shot to really make that big difference. The difference you wanted to make all along. The entire power structure is on trial. The situation is as precarious as it's ever going to get. If you don't swing for the fences now you're never going to have another chance. It'll be back to "two steps forward, three steps back".

Look where we are now: Rhis and Och are back in the game, transfusion kits are being labeled as the "french conspiracy", and the Livestrong juniors are ready to get to the "next level". The old crew are getting right back to business. Sure, they'll lay low right now while the heat is on, but do you really think that's going to last? Seriously??

It's time to man-up JV. It's Now or Never.
 
Mar 18, 2009
4,186
0
0
Visit site
I can see the reply now...

Dear 131313,

Please spell my name right. Misspelling someone's name is quite a mark of disrespect.

Signed,

JV

Reply, but completely avoid the question. That would be quite typical of JV :p
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Wow, 131313, you are becoming one of my favorite posters on this forum. Bravo good sir. BRAVO!
 
Yes that was a great post.
And I have a feeling that Jonathon will read it, as we know he was stoppping by here last year.
Jonathon if you are reading this, I would implore you to back up what Floyd has said. I was not happy in any way with how you handled the IM exchange. You hung Frankie out to dry. Too many of the key players in your story, and Floyd's story are still heavily involved in the sport. How can you tell someone like Dan Martin that things can be achieved cleanly, when you know what is still going on? You know that cycling needs to purge itself - you have access to the detonator, unlike us fans. You know that we know what's going on, yet claims of cycling being cleaner still echo. I honestly believe that exposure of the high profile cheats would act as a bigger deterrant than any number of lectures on clean cycling. Kimmage asked you straight out if you cheated and you would not given a straight answer. Your wife explained to Paul that this evasiveness is partly due to your father being a lawyer. But ultimately, who are you trying to fool?
Or do you simply want ot preserve the status quo?
 
131313 said:
Well JV, now is your one and only shot to really make that big difference. The difference you wanted to make all along. The entire power structure is on trial. The situation is as precarious as it's ever going to get. If you don't swing for the fences now you're never going to have another chance. It'll be back to "two steps forward, three steps back".

Look where we are now: Rhis and Och are back in the game, transfusion kits are being labeled as the "french conspiracy", and the Livestrong juniors are ready to get to the "next level". The old crew are getting right back to business. Sure, they'll lay low right now while the heat is on, but do you really think that's going to last? Seriously??

It's time to man-up JV. It's Now or Never.

Impressive. I bump this post for justice in the world!
 
Sep 9, 2009
532
0
0
Visit site
TeamSkyFans said:
i think he will take the dave millar line :/ http://bit.ly/apYFjP

Wow, Dave Millar. What an effing ****er.

"If he had stood up and manned up four years ago, he'd be racing the Tour de France now," Millar said. "He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."

Aside from just being a d!ck, to me that sounds loud and clear like Millar's upset at someone rocking the boat -- the boat that's brought Millar back into cycling, back to his pennies and admiration. Well fcuk that, Dave Millar. And fcuk you, you giant ****ing crybaby. You only admitted as much as you had to so you could get back in the game. You could have changed cycling, but instead you're just a whining nonentity, constantly close but just. not. talented. enough. without the dope.

Gee, I wonder who else was at those Cofidis cocaine parties along with Dave Millar and Stuart O'Grady? Matt White, maybe?
 
Publicus said:
IMO, that's pretty pathetic of Millar.

EDIT: And nice letter. I hope JV mans up here.

Was just typing the same thing albeit far more strongly worded; I deleted it. I will say that it's fairly revolting to see a convicted doper like Millar engaging in full-throated Omerta and character assassination whilst riding for a "clean" team. Disgusting.
 
May 20, 2010
877
0
0
Visit site
Really well put.

I am really disappointed in Millar there. He is only going to end up with egg on his face. As much as I want to like him he just ****es me off.
 
Apr 9, 2009
976
0
0
Visit site
BikeCentric said:
Was just typing the same thing albeit far more strongly worded; I deleted it. I will say that it's fairly revolting to see a convicted doper like Millar engaging in full-throated Omerta and character assassination whilst riding for a "clean" team. Disgusting.

Between his statements and CVV, I'm really starting to lose interest in Garmin. Their statements could've been drafted by the Shack's pr department.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
1
0
Visit site
I think the letter that 131313 has written and the David Millar comments should be kept seperate - perhaps a new thread devoted to DMs comments is appropriate.

A fantastic 'letter' by 131313 - probably the best post I have seen on this forum in a long time - and that includes outing Levi.


"Sad", that is how JV described his departure from the TdF when he suffered the wasp sting and a shot of
 
Jun 27, 2009
284
0
0
Visit site
David Millar on Bernie Kohl

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/jun09/jun11news2

David Millar of Team Garmin-Slipstream echoed these sentiments. "If he doesn't want to come back to the sport like I have done, it's because he is nothing without doping," the Scotsman said. "You have to be a real a...hole to cover the new generation in dirt, saying it's not clean! The older generations deserve to be criticised, but not the new one which works hard and has a lot of talent - contrary to Kohl."

Millar has been a loyal spokesperson for the status quo ever since his return. His finest moment in this capacity was likely his phony rage when Vino got busted at the Tour, as if this kind of thing ought to be surprising.

However I don't entirely disagree with what Millar said about Landis...specifically that Landis' confession would have had much more impact had it occurred in 2006. But what Millar means by "coming clean" is a Basso or Millar-like admission where Landis would implicate no one but himself and then return to the sport in 2 years.
 
BikeCentric said:
Was just typing the same thing albeit far more strongly worded; I deleted it. I will say that it's fairly revolting to see a convicted doper like Millar engaging in full-throated Omerta and character assassination whilst riding for a "clean" team. Disgusting.

As a fellow Scot I've always had a soft spot for Dave even after his return BUT how perceptions can change with a flick. Feeling quite sick to the stomach after reading those comments and also feeling not a little let down.

Disgusting indeed. Let's hope Landis brings this 'Gentlemen's Club' down big fugging style:mad:
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
1
0
Visit site
To harness the point of the letter that 131313 has written I believe David Millar comments should be kept separate - perhaps a new thread devoted to DMs comments would be appropriate.


A fantastic 'letter' by 131313 - the 'passion' for the sport jumps out - probably the best post I have seen on this forum in a long time - and that includes outing Levi.


"Sad", that is how JV described his departure from the TdF when he suffered the wasp sting and could not get a shot as it was could trigger a positive- while watching a drug fueled peloton disappear in to the distance.

I have been disappointed in the silence from JV since Floyd's story broke - yes, it is understandable, but I did expect better.

Its time for JV to piss or get off the pot - if he states what he knows - what we all know- is wrong with the sport, then he should stand up to the principles he admired in his father.

If JV admits now, he would retain his position, earn credibility and could be at the vanguard for change throughout Pro Cycling.
If he continues to remain silent - he is no better than Bjarne or Johan.


A quote from JV:
“The wasp sting really brought to a head a lot of the conflict I had going on inside of me. It really brought home the fact that, ‘Okay, maybe there just isn’t justice’
 
You need to be fair to Vaughters. Some of you guys just want blood. Vaughters was one of the pioneers of the anti-doping movement. He's not anti-Lance he's anti-doping. There is a difference. Long ago Vaughters was talking to ASO about how to make the Tour clean(er) when the UCI refused to listen. He pushed and pushed and pushed. Vaughters is not going to put his team through the mire to get back at Lance. I think respect where respect is due.

All of the insiders know what went on at USPS its just not in the public domain…. yet.

He knows Lance will fall of his own accord. The secret is out. You don't need JV to pull the trigger. Its coming. Just wait.

As per David Miller. Well what can you say? I note he's not protecting Armstrong but trying to protect the Garmin franchise. Remember Miller was $852,000 in debt during his suspension and Vaughters helped him pay it off and give him ownership in Garmin. Miller's not protecting anti-doping he's protect his stake in Garmin. Hard for Miller to tell Floyd to man up when Miller only manned up once he was thrown in a police jail cell. If that didn't happen Miller would still be doping today. He knows it and openly states it.
 
Jul 17, 2009
4,316
2
0
Visit site
Also JV I'd like to know where you get your Burns and brows styled. In addition who does your nails? Oh and why don't you look through your glasses when you are wearing them.

PS And stop wearing Turtlenecks with a sport coat in summer for damnsakes
 
I wonder if JV even recalls this interview/article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article4232249.ece

“What about when you joined the US Postal Service team in 1998?”

“In ’98? Why do you need to know that?” he laughs.

“I need to know when you witnessed it first-hand,” I explain. “I’m asking whether it was in ’98 that you witnessed it first-hand.”

“I know,” he laughs. “And I am asking you: Why do you need to know that?”

“I would have thought it was a logical extension of what we have been talking about.”

“Well, no,” he disagrees. “Essentially, you are leading me down a path where I end up having to answer questions that I can’t back out of.”

“I’m not leading you down any path,” I counter. “I’m trying to explain how you founded Team Clean. I am asking you about your experiences of doping in cycling.”

“No, that’s totally understandable,” he concedes.

“I’m not asking you anything I didn’t ask Greg LeMond.”

No, of course, and I wouldn’t expect that. I guess I would just say that my time at US Postal Service was . . . I kind of almost have to leave that as a ‘No comment’. And you can take that however you would like.”