Dekker's Positive

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Mar 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Many teams have picked up riders who are suspect. Look at Ivan Basso who is at Liquigas. I think neither rabobank or lotto are at blame. Lotto is just a scapegoat of what is dekkers fault only. Don't blame lotto for picking him up. An hour earlier people wouldn't have been bothered by lotto picking up dekker. Lose some of your bias Tommy loves rabo
Actually, a lot of people have been quite bothered by the way both Rabo and Lotto handled things. Neither team looked any good in this.

Much less Lotto after Kohl's statements, Bileka testing positive and now this.

Lotto's looking pretty guilty.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
a lot of people here in NL are going to be very disappointed.

He was seen as a great talent.

It's funny I saw him get dropped with a group of amateurs off the back of the peloton halfway through the national championship on sunday and I thought to myself that he is 10% of the rider he used to be.

Now it all makes sense. The story about throwing up 7 times due to rotten eggs is nonsense - he knew he was f^&*ed and was mentally elsewhere.

it should have made sense a looooooooooong time ago.
if this comes as a surprise to you, i don't know what doesn't.
and i'm definitely not one of those guys who openly suspects every rider with talent or a good streak, but with dekker the pile was too big.
cecco, monaco, the mysterious rabo-break, from being a super-talent to being peloton-filling in 6 months...


ah well, one domestique less for evans \o/


great nickname btw :)
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Why now?

Much as I hate to see BigBoat's paranoia come to life, I too wonder why this has come to light only now. Has S-L sat on this news? Did they feel the pressure from the promise of the French organizers to test four times more often?
On the other hand, I can't fault S-L for not protecting him.
I don't think doping is as pervasive as it was. Nor as endemic as BigBoat thinks. Is he the CyclingFansAnonymous blogger? That guy saw doping everywhere.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Many teams have picked up riders who are suspect. Look at Ivan Basso who is at Liquigas. I think neither rabobank or lotto are at blame. Lotto is just a scapegoat of what is dekkers fault only. Don't blame lotto for picking him up. An hour earlier people wouldn't have been bothered by lotto picking up dekker. Lose some of your bias Tommy loves rabo
basso and dekker case are different, risk still but different risk. you would assume (and i think he is) that basso is a clean rider now, and kudos to him.
But dekker come on, his situation was pretty suspicious, that's why rabobank let him go. They had to assume better and advanced testing would come into the picture.

Not trying to blame S-L, it certainly wasn't thier fault, all im saying it was a really stupid move picking up dekker.

(ps my biased attitude towards Rabobank is no different to your biased attitude with S-L/Evans)
 
May 17, 2009
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What I wonder about TD is, how far back does it go? Was he doped when he established his reputation as 'the great dutch hope', riding for Rabobank Espoir? When did he start working with Cecchini?

TD has been pretty lacklustre since being fired from Rabobank, and he recently wrote in a dutch newspaper column that he thought his talent had been overestimated, that to much had been expected from him (atleast that's what I think he wrote).
 
Jun 16, 2009
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issoisso said:
Actually, a lot of people have been quite bothered by the way both Rabo and Lotto handled things. Neither team looked any good in this.

Much less Lotto after Kohl's statements, Bileka testing positive and now this.

Lotto's looking pretty guilty.
Silence Lotto had only just signed Kohl when he was found to have cheated. They got rid of him straighht away. If the results for dekker had came out back then, lotto wouldn't have had anything to do with this. your drawing a long bow to make conclusions about lotto.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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issoisso said:
Actually, a lot of people have been quite bothered by the way both Rabo and Lotto handled things. Neither team looked any good in this.
Do you think RAB tried to protect him a bit, out of loyalty and/or self preservation due to his long time with RAB?

Instead of publicly admitting he had done something wrong (although hard to prove since there was no test that could detect what he was using), which would diminish his chances of finding a new team, they covered it up. Rabobank was protecting its own image as a 'doping free team that actually spits out a number of clean youn talents', while it helped Dekker to find a job elsewhere...
 
Mar 19, 2009
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MavicMoto said:
Is he the CyclingFansAnonymous blogger? That guy saw doping everywhere.
No, CFA is a woman who isn't an expert on physiology.

This just underscores that Astana is taking a chance on Kloden.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
How has lotto gambled on him? Unfortunately lotto are made to look the bad guys as it was on Rabobank where he tested positive. On dekkers website it is currently offline but i was on it an hour beforre the incident. They din't know he was a cheat.
The circumstances that he left Rabobank were shrouded in secrecy with all types of rumours floating about, none of them good. They had to at the very least question why a rider of his status was completely left off the team's race schedule from the Tour til the end of the season. These are the guys that are professionals at what they do and have all types of sources in the industry. We serious fans were quite suspicious so I'm sure Lotto had to be too. We fans knew of his connections with Cocconi so I'm sure Lotto had to be aware of this too. They felt pressure to sign someone after gambling and losing on Kohl (Yes, gambling!). These were dollars better spent in signing someone with less of a questionable past.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
basso and dekker case are different, risk still but different risk. you would assume (and i think he is) that basso is a clean rider now, and kudos to him.
But dekker come on, his situation was pretty suspicious, that's why rabobank let him go. They had to assume better and advanced testing would come into the picture.

Not trying to blame S-L, it certainly wasn't thier fault, all im saying it was a really stupid move picking up dekker.

(ps my biased attitude towards Rabobank is no different to your biased attitude with S-L/Evans)
sorry i misunderstood you.:eek:
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
a lot of people here in NL are going to be very disappointed.

He was seen as a great talent.

It's funny I saw him get dropped with a group of amateurs off the back of the peloton halfway through the national championship on sunday and I thought to myself that he is 10% of the rider he used to be.

Now it all makes sense. The story about throwing up 7 times due to rotten eggs is nonsense - he knew he was f^&*ed and was mentally elsewhere.
'Was' being the operative word. I think a lot of people here in NL had already written off any hope of his 'talent' ever being revived. Although I was totally suspicious about him giving up last weekend, I didn't really expect this, now. A very sad business all round.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Silence Lotto had only just signed Kohl when he was found to have cheated. They got rid of him straighht away. If the results had came out back then, lotto wouldn't have had anything to do with this.
I'm talking about

1. This Dekker "incident"
2. Kohl saying that Lotto only signed him after they looked at his blood values to confirm that he hid his doping well
3. Bileka (riding for Lotto) tested positive. Lotto tried to cover it up and told the press and the public that he'd become depressed and decided to retire. All of a sudden, Bileka's best friend and teammate who rode with him his entire career has a sudden and quite tremendous performance drop and does awful the rest of the season, just like Dekker this season.

Heck, we only ever found out Bileka tested positive because it was in WADA's yearly list of positive tests released many months later. Lotto did everything they could to throw it under the mat.

Bala Verde said:
Do you think RAB tried to protect him a bit, out of loyalty and/or self preservation due to his long time with RAB?

Instead of publicly admitting he had done something wrong (although hard to prove since there was no test that could detect what he was using), which would diminish his chances of finding a new team, they covered it up. Rabobank was protecting its own image as a 'doping free team that actually spits out a number of clean youn talents', while it helped Dekker to find a job elsewhere...

Exactly my thoughts.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Angliru said:
The circumstances that he left Rabobank were shrouded in secrecy with all types of rumours floating about, none of them good. They had to at the very least question why a rider of his status was completely left off the team's race schedule from the Tour til the end of the season. These are the guys that are professionals at what they do and have all types of sources in the industry. We serious fans were quite suspicious so I'm sure Lotto had to be too. We fans knew of his connections with Cocconi so I'm sure Lotto had to be aware of this too. They felt pressure to sign someone after gambling and losing on Kohl (Yes, gambling!). These were dollars better spent in signing someone with less of a questionable past.
Thanks fro informing me, i didnt know much about dekker before this. Intersting to hear that dekker said he had a problem with rotten eggs and the next he says he is at 100% form again. I'm no doctor but doesn't it take a few days to get over possible food poisoning?
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Do you think RAB tried to protect him a bit, out of loyalty and/or self preservation due to his long time with RAB?

Instead of publicly admitting he had done something wrong (although hard to prove since there was no test that could detect what he was using), which would diminish his chances of finding a new team, they covered it up. Rabobank was protecting its own image as a 'doping free team that actually spits out a number of clean youn talents', while it helped Dekker to find a job elsewhere...
rabobank would have pulled the plug if anything happened with one of the big riders after the rasmussen affair.

so they made a deal with dekker [paranoia]and forced boogerd, who was still good enough, to end his carrier because of the vienna story. explains way they didn't even offer him a minor job after all his years with rabo[/paranoia]
 
Jun 16, 2009
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issoisso said:
I'm talking about

1. This Dekker "incident"
2. Kohl saying that Lotto only signed him after they looked at his blood values to confirm that he hid his doping well
3. Bileka (riding for Lotto) tested positive. Lotto tried to cover it up and told the press and the public that he'd become depressed and decided to retire. All of a sudden, Bileka's best friend and teammate who rode with him his entire career has a sudden and quite tremendous performance drop and does awful the rest of the season, just like Dekker this season.

Heck, we only ever found out Bileka tested positive because it was in WADA's yearly list of positive tests released many months later. Lotto did everything they could to throw it under the mat.
Exactly my thoughts.
Do you think they are signing riders who they know aren't clean? or are they desperate for stronger gc riders.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Many teams have picked up riders who are suspect. Look at Ivan Basso who is at Liquigas. I think neither rabobank or lotto are at blame. Lotto is just a scapegoat of what is dekkers fault only. Don't blame lotto for picking him up. An hour earlier people wouldn't have been bothered by lotto picking up dekker. Lose some of your bias Tommy loves rabo
auscyclefan94 are you so blinded by your Cadel love that you can't think rationally? Dekker was seen as a risk by Rabobank otherwise they wouldn't have let him go. Lotto simply gambled and lost. They are to blame for deciding in whatever way they concluded that the pro's of picking up Dekker outweighed the con's. So far the system is working fairly well as far as I can see. Yes Liquigas gambled on Basso and so far the gamble paid off. So far.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Angliru said:
auscyclefan94 are you so blinded by your Cadel love that you can't think rationally? Dekker was seen as a risk by Rabobank otherwise they wouldn't have let him go. Lotto simply gambled and lost. They are to blame for deciding in whatever way they concluded that the pro's of picking up Dekker outweighed the con's. So far the system is working fairly well as far as I can see. Yes Liquigas gambled on Basso and so far the gamble paid off. So far.
I give up:mad:. i swear this comment has no bias. lotto have been and will be scapegoated with most the blame. yes from what i have just learnt that it was a too bigger risk taking him.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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there was a 'positive' pool on this forum a few motnhs ago.

i guessed thomas dekker right there. what do i win? :)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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The only encouraging thing that strikes me regarding this unfortunate event is that Thomas Dekker went from supreme talent and stage race winner to, erm, the Mongol Waaijer, as soon as it became somewhat harder to get away with taking EPO.

Reading between the lines, his comments that he isn't as big a talent as people think might be a "I can't use EPO anymore so now I am just packfiller" story??

Maybe there is some good news in that "stars" can have their progress derailed by tighter controls?

However the bad news is that many (most of) the other "talents" and big name riders have not declined in form or ability in the last few years. Has there been a big switch to old fashioned blood transfusions (as Kohl suggests) or some sort of as yet unknown new product and TD was not part of this evolution?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Not re-signing Horner comes back to haunt Lotto again. Things would have been so much easier...

Cadel probably doesn't need this kind of stress either since he's trying to take a more relaxed feeling into this year's Tour. But Wegelius is a good rider and I think he'll do well for the team, as well as Aerts did last year.
 

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